Talk:City of Frankston

The article says Mt Eliza is included in the City of Frankston, but then later claims it 'lost it' - which is it? ozzmosis 18:43, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Indeed this is an inconsistency - Mt Eliza is not within the City of Frankston; it is within the Mornington Peninsula shire. I have amended the test to refer to South Frankston which certainly is within the City of Frankston boundaries. tonzo 0708 UTC, 19 January 2006
 * Cool stuff :-) ozzmosis 12:04, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

The City of Frankston ceased to exist in December 1994. Its correct name is Frankston City, or Frankston City Council. I believe your current references to City of Frankston should be corrected. (Olwen Bawden fobawden@melbpc.org.au)
 * Olwen is correct - City of Frankston ceased to exist in 1994 with the Jeff Kennett council amalgamations. BTW It was at this point that they "lost" Mt Eliza when it was included in the new Mornington Peninsula shire, but they picked up Langwarrin and Carrum Downs. The correct name post 1994 is Frankston City Council. Sadly I do not know how to rename an entire article - somebody else here must? --203.35.135.133 (talk) 23:36, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
 * This article is about a local government area created in 1994. I have confirmed from both the Local Government Act and various other documents that there is no such thing in Victoria, as there is in NSW and SA, of a local government area called a "council". Almost all are "City of" or "Shire of", to which there's about 7 or 8 exceptions (which are ___ Shire - there are no ___ Cities in Victoria), nearly all of them related to the area around Geelong (which was the first area to be reformed by the Victorian government, over a year before most of the rest.) I have further confirmed that the "City of Frankston" is the legal name for the area described and the "Frankston City Council" is its governing authority. This is recognised not just in land title maps I've viewed at SLV, but in publications such as the RACV directory. "City of Frankston" was *also* used for the previous, differently constituted entity which was abolished to create this one - it has an article at City of Frankston (former). At Wikipedia we must be careful to use the legal name for the area, rather than what it is popularly known as (in some cases even by many of its own staff). Orderinchaos 00:45, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Page 95 of the RACV directory, which got the legal names for LGAs from the Department of Sustainability and Environment, clearly states "City of Frankston". Orderinchaos 00:51, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * The RACV is not really the authority here.. The DSE website contains numerous references to "Frankston City", and the "City of Frankston" hits seem to relate to matters pre-1994. I agree we must be careful to use the legal name for the area.
 * I think the real authority is right here:
 * http://www.dse.vic.gov.au/planningschemes/frankston/ordinance/21_mss01_fran.pdf
 * This document refers to Frankston City and Frankston City Council is distinct entities.


 * and another example here:
 * http://www.localgovernment.vic.gov.au/web20/dvclgv.nsf/AllDocs/03746A8DA191B379CA257168002B065A?OpenDocument —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.35.135.133 (talk) 02:47, 17 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Somewhat confusing indeed. :| Like I said, I know for a fact it was created as the City of Frankston in 1994, and I can see several clear references from official sites to the name in reference to the present body. e.g. and  as just two examples. It's also used by numerous community organisations such as Sustainable Cities and the Brotherhood of St Laurence. (I live in WA and I didn't take a photocopy of the sources that I used to figure out each LGA's name in the SLV, otherwise I would produce scans of them.) It's always difficult to tell what the name is simply from Google or other document search mechanisms as many local bodies around Australia use "popularised" names for themselves in nearly all their correspondence (including their websites) when their legal name is verifiably something else. This sometimes feeds into correspondence by departments other than the LG department - I've seen illustrations of this in Queensland where usage used to be much more clear and then broke down over the years (along exactly these lines - whether to put Shire/City first or last). Additionally, that last localgovernment source you cited also refers to Kingston City and Casey City, which are verifiably and uncontroversially "City of"s. I will do some research over the coming days and see what I can find out - I'm not ruling out that it could have changed since 1994 (i.e. I'm happy to be proven wrong if it means we get it right), as I'm finding far fewer matches for CoF than for, say, CoCasey or CoKingston. Orderinchaos 03:28, 17 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Local government in Australia is not enshrined in the Constution, it is created via act of state parliament. Thus, it is state governments that dissolve, create and manage local government entities. In the case of Victoria, the relevant department that manages them is DPCD (department of planning and community development)- DPCD is defined as the relevant authority in the Local Government act of 1989: http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/consol_act/lga1989182/s3.html#council. Here is the page within DPCD where Frankston City is listed: http://www.dpcd.vic.gov.au/localgovernment/find-your-local-council/frankston So lots of other places will have their own ideas, but it's only DPCD that is source of truth in the matter. The entity is shown here is Frankston City, not City of Frankston. The article should therefore be renamed. Commking (talk)

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