Talk:Cleisthenes

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Untitled
i need some basic biographical information on Cleithenes...anyone help?

This little exchange was ages ago, but whatever. The problem with Cleisthenes is that there is no biographical information on him. Despite his monumental achievements, we know next to nothing about the man himself. --Emily 03:32, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/31641/31641-h/31641-h.htm#ar180 the article (11th ed. Britannica) on Cleisthenes is informative, and has a thorough explanation of "the curse", but also states clearly that: "Apart from the reforms which Cleisthenes was now able to establish, the period of his ascendancy is a blank, nor are we told when and how it came to an end." Diomedes Agonistes (talk) 18:10, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

Disambiguation
I made a disambiguation article for Cleisthenes and a separate article for Cleisthenes, who lived during the Peloponnesian war. --Yannismarou 10:41, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

what the deuce?
'Cleisthenes (also Clisthenes or Kleisthenes) was a noble Athenian of the accursed Alcmeonidate family'

Just what exactly do you have against the Alcmeonidates? I think they good people.

Musungu jim 17:12, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

I've removed "accursed" from the text, there's simply no reason for it. wrc_wolfbrother 16:40, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

According to Heroditus there was a curse against the family. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.31.125.205 (talk) 22:58, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

Equality of political rights
I thought twice before change of "equality under the law" to "equality of political rights". However I have two strong sources for this:


 * 1) Morgens Herman Hansen who is an expert on Athenian Democracy
 * 2) Henry George Liddell, Robert Scott, A Greek-English Lexicon

Moreover, because Herodotus & Cleisthenes use isonomia and democracy interchangeably to mean a system of the politi, and nomos has the mean custom, usage (as well as law) I am more inclined to the wider definition of "political rights" which would be "customs of the politi". I hope no one is offended by my change --Mike 13:47, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

As long as your consideration includes the fact that the Greek-English Lexicon you are using refers to modern Greek which would be substantially different from the ancient Greek, then I would imagine no offense is taken... Stevenmitchell 04:40, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Gerrymandering?
Can it be said that his regrouping of voting districts is an early form of gerrymandering? 84.2.206.167 (talk) 05:10, 26 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Not unless a published, reliable and verified source has said it first. Til Eulenspiegel (talk) 10:53, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

In a way, that is precisely what it is, gerrymandering--but apparently not in a bid for power, but in an attempt to re-balance Athenian society, by reconfiguring political districts so they would reflect a cross-section of socio-economic and clan groups and thereby prevent or limit the factionalism and polarization that had bedeviled Athens since the time of Cylon and before. So you might describe it as 'gerrymandering' or 'anti-gerrymandering'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 153.18.100.118 (talk) 19:02, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

3rd Spartan Intervention, attempt to restore Isagoras to power not clearly stated
Apparently, there were 3 separate Spartan military interventions aimed at Athens in the late 6th century:

1 an unsuccessful attempt to unseat Hippias that was thwarted

2 the successful intervention that forced Hippias to flee to Asia Minor

3 an unsuccessful attempt by the Spartans to restore the Athenian oligarch, Isagoras, to power.

This last incident is not mentioned at all in the article, but it is an important fact, because it relates not only to the subsequent Persian War, but also to the larger issue of the relationship between Athens and Sparta, and Sparta's general support of oligarchies.