Talk:Cloud seeding

History
Honestly, folks. Read this: To his astonishment, as soon as he breathed into the deep freezer, he noted a bluish haze, followed by an eye-popping display of millions of microscopic ice crystals, reflecting the strong light rays from the lamp illuminating a cross-section of the chamber. He instantly realized that he had discovered a way to change super-cooled water into ice crystals. The experiment was easily replicated, and he explored the temperature gradient to establish the −40 °C limit for liquid water.[27] -What is this? This is awful. This is so loaded that my baked potato's feeling self-conscious. I don't know much about editing wiki articles, but will someone please fix this horrendous paragraph for the sake of this article's legitimacy? 47.183.227.145 (talk) 18:59, 9 March 2019 (UTC)Beau

Health Effects
I first remember hearing about cloud seeding as a child in the late 50's. Since then the subject seems to have disappeared. I would like to know if cloud seeding is still done? I'm also curious about whether there has been any studies regarding the possibility (or lack of it) of long term health problems resulting from cloud seeding. Considering the increase in asthma and other chronic conditions plaguing our Baby boom generation and our children it seems that we should be questioning processes that were done in our lifetime such as cloudseeding, christmas tree fire retardence, mass vaccinations, etc. that may have seemed like a good thing to do at the time but may have resulted in unknown long term health affects.


 * I could've sworn I read that it was a widespread practice in China, so much so that they were fighting over who owned the best clouds. They use artillery, rockets, and planes to deliver the chemicals.  This ring a bell for anyone?-LtNOWIncestuous Shaggers 23:08, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)


 * Does anyone have any information on the health effects of this? That was the first thing I thought of when I read this: (Xinhua News). Andy 11:29, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

The Russians apparently used Lead Iodide, rather than silver Iodide. The health implications though are minimalistic when it is considered that over a square kilometre, the silver iodide used in aerial cloud seeding would be approx. a tablespoon.

cloud seeding
I'm a young kid but i still know alittle about cloud seeding it has been proven many cases that it is safe and ok the only thing that really sticks in my brain is in march 22, 1998 when cloud seeding helped a fire that got out ahand.I also know even some of the bad cases are because they can't measure the precipiatation levels in the cloud even with all our new computers and stuff. Thanks a fellow 8th grader in Grundy center,Iowa

"Russian military pilots seeded clouds over Belarus after the Chernobyl disaster to remove radioactive particles from clouds heading toward Moscow.[15]"

Should this not be labelled as a conspiracy theory as much as the, improbable, Woodstock one. It is taken from a single Telegraph article, not the most impartial source, which nonetheless makes it clear it has been denied by the government. Perhaps more importantly the wind was due north, leading to the radioactivity being detected inSweden before the USSR went public, while Noscow is directly to the east of Belarus. Neil Craig —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.17.46.34 (talk) 16:34, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Operation Cumulus
No mention of Operation Cumulus of 1952 on the article. I think that's something that might be worth talking about as it was hidden by the UK government for years until a pilot spoke out and the papers were released.

Vietnam
Didn't we use cloud seeding during the Vietnam war to keep NVA supply lines muddy? I think I heard this somewhere, but can't verify it.

141.213.251.164 18:37, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

I believe you're right, and I seem to remember reading about it on a wikipedia article, but now I can't find it. It's mentioned briefly under the Ho Chi-Minh Trail article, but that's all. I also believe that is what prompted the UN to ban the use of weather control as a type of weapon. -wedgiey1 67.171.68.242 04:12, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, we used it to wash out the Ho Chi Minh trail. It can be verified in the book "Acts of God: The Unnatural History of Natural Disaster in America" by Ted Steinberg.

I thoroughly doubt these claims, given that there still is little proof that cloud seeding works 199.111.85.50 19:40, 25 April 2007 (UTC) 17:49, 2 July 2007 (GMT)

There's also a three part programme by the BBC called 'The Science of Superstorms' that's worth checking out and mentions (in the first programme I believe) the fact that the US used the technique in the Vietnam war.

The wikipedia aritcle about this topic is "Operation Popeye". 71.231.190.148 (talk) 22:24, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Cleanup
See WP:CONTEXT. This article was targetted by a user for overlinking. It has been tagged for cleanup and will be cleaned up as time permits. Anyone willing to go ahead and remove the excessive linking before I get back to it will be greatly permitted as many articles were overlinked and only now just discovered. --Crossmr 07:22, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Regarding clean-up how come noone seems to mention the fact that cloud seeding is suspected to have been used the soviet government as a way of removing the toxic waste that went into the clouds above Chernobyl and as such were seeded near Gomel to prevent said waste from reaching Moscow and St Petersburg.

Meteorology tagging, after nearly two years
This should help in your efforts to clean up the page. There is a bit of a movement within meteorology and hurricane projects to upgrade their pages. Now that they know of its existence, it should be whipped into shape. Thegreatdr 21:26, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Cloud seeding practice and health effects
Cloud seeding is indeed done today, by about 24 countries and eleven Western states - see http://www.naiwmc.org for a map of the Western U.S. and Canada states/provinces.

The health effects from silver deposited from silver iodide seeding are indeed minimal, and no studies have shown any silver contents in the environment above background levels. You will have much more exposure to silver from tooth fillings than from cloud seeding! Much research on the environmental and health effects of seeding were done over 20 years ago, because funding for cloud seeding research in general has declined precipitously since that time.

Another big myth about cloud seeding is that it causes precipitation decreases downwind of the area that is seeded. This is called the "Robbing Peter to Pay Paul" effect. It is discussed for winter seeding by an FAQ at http://www.wet-intl.com/faq.html. The bottom line is that there has been no evidence for decreases downwind of seeding target areas, but some evidence for increases as much as 100 miles downwind.

There is still controversy about whether cloud seeding really works, in large part because of the lack of scientific research. The National Academies of Science National Research Council studied the field in 2003 and concluded that there is a great need for a national research program to clear up remaining questions. Nevertheless, three professional societies (American Meteorological Society (AMS), Weather Modification Association, and World Meteorological Organization) agree that the best evidence for effectiveness is with winter cloud seeding to augment snowfall over mountains. In fact, the AMS even states that there is good evidence to support 10% increases in snow water seasonally. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Esteban9 (talk • contribs) 22:45, 4 December 2006 (UTC).

If this needs to be done it should be done in the evening. 130.232.109.140 (talk) 05:52, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Regulation
Is this thing regulated internationally or locally in any country? Obviously neighboring regions/countries might agree with getting more/less rain as a result. --Voidvector 06:39, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Should "cloud seeding" be disambiguated?
According to cloud seeding, cloud seeding is a human activity, whereas global warming presents "cloud seeding via galactic cosmic rays" as a natural phenomenon. If both articles are correct about these expressions, should "cloud seeding" be disambiguated? -- Wavelength (talk) 20:17, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Clouds can be seeded both naturally and otherwise. We should clarify its definition in the lead, and add a reference to it.  Thegreatdr (talk) 01:37, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Fatalities
Just wondering if this cloud seeding related death in China deserves a mention. SmokeySteve (talk) 20:07, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Distribution of silver iodide via kite lines
I rather like the idea about using a paintgun or airgun to shoot pellets into the sky. However, it makes more sense to climb a nearby hill to increase your range, so you can fire at the right cloud. (I happen to live at the 1,100 foot level while most of Portland, Oregon, is about 62 feet above sea level.)

But if the winds are blowing right, you should be able to increase the range with a catapult or even a kite (by attaching a battery-powered motor that climbs the line on its own). In the last instance, using a kite, 200 feet strikes me as the limit in range that an amateur kite flyer could achieve before the line breaks under the weight of the load on the line, and the stress caused by the wind. Dexter Nextnumber (talk) 02:10, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Can it refresh our fresh water supply?
Is it true that we can increase our fresh water supply if we did cloud seeding around our lakes, rivers, and streams to increase their rainfall amount? GVnayR (talk) 02:02, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think so. We can only seed the clouds that are there already. We can make it rain here instead of there, or now instead of later, but we can't create extra water vapour. The only possibility for extra water would be if, for example, we seeded a cloud that was going pass over an island, and make it rain on the island instead of at sea. I wonder if this has been done for real? Might be good for the article. Totnesmartin (talk) 10:20, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Interestingly, as mentioned in the article, South East Queensland Australia has been conducting a cloud seeding trial for the past four years, with the hopes of "easing" the drought situation ... do you think it might've worked? :| --PoizonMyst (talk) 13:53, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

yes, I noticed it immediately too, that it is a Warthog. Should be changed. Nnnooottt (talk) 02:03, 10 March 2019 (UTC)


 * why are you replying to an 8 year old discussion? Not that I understand your reply. Doug Weller  talk 11:33, 10 March 2019 (UTC)

Doug, Because I saw it yesterday and not 8 years ago. The point being that the cloud seeding plane is an A10 Warthog, as described in the article below. Don't ask me why my comment was attached to this article instead of the one below. I have no idea, I can barely figure the site out well enough to function here at all. As mentioned below it is a bit odd to have one of the more evil (read successful, beneficial, whatever you prefer) Close Air Support military planes used to illustrate cloud seeding as a benevolent civilian activity. But this was really an aside note to my main note on the articles on cloud seeding/ chemtrailsNnnooottt (talk) 06:05, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

assault jet picture
Does anybody think it looks funny or just me? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.84.165.12 (talk) 14:08, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Yes having an A-10 Thunderbolt as the cloud seeding aircraft is somewhat odd. Not only would I suspect some sort of civilian aircraft, such as a water bomber. But also something with a much larger capacity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.52.239.106 (talk) 03:09, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

I can only assume that was done as a joke. One does not use military attack aircraft to handle cloud-seeding chores. That's a very expensive, very specialize jet that is not well suited to the job. It's a bit like driving a bulldozer to the corner grocer so you can buy bread. I mean, it could theoretically do the job, but it's inefficient, insanely expensive, and probably illegal. 73.45.208.237 (talk) 19:13, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

Salt Usage
So... is it used or isn't it?

There is NEVER salt included.

and later in the same paragraph...

The use of hygroscopic materials, such as salt, is increasing in popularity[citation needed] because of some promising research results[citation needed].

There isn't a citation for either part, I would suggest removing them both.

SeanJA (talk) 13:19, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Bit of news
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-10-19/cloud-seeding/4322880, via http://geoengineeringpolitics.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/new-south-wales-adopts-cloud-seeding.html William M. Connolley (talk) 22:22, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Vandalism
There is a buttload of vandalism on this article! — Preceding unsigned comment added by EdSaperia (talk • contribs) 18:22, 4 April 2013 (UTC) Agreed. In the picture of the cloud seeding, The descriptive text replaces "Clouds" or "the cloud" with the words "my butt" — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bear1977 (talk • contribs) 03:36, 5 April 2013 (UTC)


 * You added it yourself. Please refrain from editing articles with the "cloud-to-butt" browser extension enabled. Kolbasz (talk) 18:33, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
 * ...I have absolutely no idea what the hell happened here... ...I saw... ...what?? I saw the article had "cloud" replaced by "butt" in lots of places, and I fixed some of them, and now it looks like I put them there? I'm so confused?!? EdSaperia (talk) 19:01, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
 * So it turns out that my coworkers installed that extension on my computer a few months ago and I hadn't noticed until now... EdSaperia (talk) 19:05, 7 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Who the f*ck started it, and why have you not reverted it.

Impact on environment and health
What i lack in this article is the impact on the natural weather patterns. I'd like to know whether the normal weather patterns are disturbed in the short and long run. Because if not this might be the solution for desertification and droughts anywhere. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.91.41.128 (talk) 10:00, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

There is no discussion on where that water may have gone to, they just take it. How does this affect your neighbors? Greed Argalite (talk) 16:42, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

POV Issues
The tones used in the Asia section and North America section are quite different. It seems to express a lot of doubt on the efficacy of the Chinese rainmaking projects, while affirming the success of the American projects. Especially problematic is the sentence "... People's Republic of China, which believes that it increases the amount of rain ...". The sentence deliberately lowers the legitimacy of the Chinese efforts, but the other section unfairly emphasises the success in North America. Please fix the tone. Yinweichen (talk) 11:32, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

I have two issues:
 * I did not understand that there is a Cloud seeding article, until I was reading that Chemtrail conspiracy theory is not linked with this article.


 * I was reading about this topic for the first time here: http://news.asiaone.com/news/malaysia/cloud-seeding-done-daily and it looks like common practice for the involved people/countries and the effects to the environment.

"Abu Bakar dismissed allegations that the Ministry had used harmful chemicals in any of its cloud seeding operations." (sidenote: Censorship in Malaysia)

"The matter used in cloud seeding is natrium chloride, which is regular salt used for daily cooking. When we mix salt and spray it on the clouds, the clouds will become heavy and it will turn into rain."

So theoretically if I cook water (for pasta for e.g.) with enough salt, and do it outdoors (on a massive scale) it will start raining? This is for me only one side of the story, it shows only that the ingredients used are declared, but not how it's done, when it comes down to energy consumption, there is no reference to that. I'll assume what they don't say in is more important to our environment than what they say. Is that right or what and where do I get it wrong? Thanks! --huggi - never stop exploring (talk) 06:46, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

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Removed irrelevant information
In the "China" section, there was an uncited claim that "about 24 countries practice weather modification operationally". I don't believe that this claim belongs in a specific country's section. To re-add this claim I think that it should have a source. longchess (talk · contribs · block user) 15:18, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Propose merge
I propose that January 2020 cloud seeding experiment in the United Arab Emirates be merged into this article. There is not enough significant coverage of the even to warrant a separate article. JayJay<sup style="color:black">What did I do? 17:58, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I am actually thinking that we might be in a good place to do Cloud seeding in the United Arab Emirates as a general article, there appears to be a ton of sources about it on the interwebs, and it would be a good complement to Water in the United Arab Emirates -- maybe we move the one you are proposing, bring over content from this article, and then transclude the lead of the more concise section here with Template:Excerpt. does that sound right? Sadads (talk) 18:18, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I think that would work, like you said there seems to be enough sources about cloud seeding in the United Arab Emirates. <b style="color:#FF0000">Jay</b><b style="color:#0000FF">Jay</b><sup style="color:black">What did I do? 22:11, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
 * What about Cloud seeding in the United Arab Emirates? That seems to be a good start, its better than it was :D Sadads (talk) 22:41, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Looks good to me! <b style="color:#FF0000">Jay</b><b style="color:#0000FF">Jay</b><sup style="color:black">What did I do? 00:13, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

Tasmanian Cloud Seeding (under Australia)
Cloud seeding in Tasmania ended in 2016. I think this information should probably be added. I'm unwilling to make the edit myself since I haven't edited an article before and I'm not up to date with the style guide / rules.--203.213.23.190 (talk) 14:33, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

2020 study
"Quantifying snowfall from orographic cloud seeding" Mapsax (talk) 01:45, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

No mention of NOAA Database
As part of Public Law 92-205 (1972), all non-Federal weather modification activities must be reported to the U.S. Secretary of Commerce, via the NOAA Weather Program Office. Below is a list of these reports and is updated on a quarterly basis. https://library.noaa.gov/Collections/Digital-Collections/Weather-Modification-Project-Reports 2601:242:500:3E80:B79:4490:3136:954A (talk) 03:00, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

Conflict: Effectiveness / History-UAE
In this claim under History - UAE

Forecasters and scientists have estimated that cloud seeding operations can enhance rainfall by as much as 30-35% percent in a clear atmosphere, and up to 10-15% in a more humid atmosphere

Does that not directly conflict with the section under effectiveness and Pelley, Janet (30 May 2016)?

 Ogreen98 (talk) 23:28, 28 May 2024 (UTC)