Talk:Combined drug intoxication

Alcohol
Why does it say in the lede that "alcohol can excaberate the symptoms"? Alcohol (ethanol) is itself a drug. Is there any medical reason why alcohol would not simply be included in the mix of drugs the victim is using?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:8D80:68A:2510:A27C:79F:F52B:988D (talk) 15:28, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

CDI/MDI
I'd like to thank whoever merged the two articles which greatly improved the message.

They should be the same article.

I started this article to warn people about the dangers of croaking by accident, even though you use these medicines as directed. [....] Supercool Dude (talk) 18:43, 14 March 2008 (UTC)


 * The guideline for what subjects are covered in Wikipedia articles is Notability; see WP:POL as well as talk page head template links to editing policies and guidelines. Thank you.  --NYScholar (talk) 03:59, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Missing citations
Please add citations to this article to document its statements. See WP:NOR and WP:V and Neutral point of view for core editing policies, as linked in the talkheader. Please do not delete other users' talk page comments when they pertain to the editing of the article and how to improve it. Please discuss editing this article on this talk page as per Talk page guidelines. Thank you. --NYScholar (talk) 03:48, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I understand that there should be more citations in the article, but I find it (very) redundant to use the citation missing boilerplate on every section. It makes it even harder to read the article, and it doesn't really add anything since everyone sees that boilerplate at the top of the article.  After all, it does say "This article or section is missing citations or needs footnotes." so seeing it at the top of the article would mean just that.  Algotr (talk) 09:39, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Talk page guidelines
Note from those guidelines: "Article talk pages should not be used by editors as platforms for their personal views." (See deleted content of this talk page via editing history, where the anon. IP user refers to emptying the whole page of content citing guideline against using Wikipedia as a personal "soapbox". Diffs.) --NYScholar (talk) 04:18, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

CDI/MDI
[....]I started these articles on Multiple Drug Intake and Combined Drug Intoxication to warn everyone, mostly young and foolish people, not to use too many drugs. I wrote these articles to save peoples lives. Some of the changes you [NYScholar] have made are confusing to me and may be confusing to the average person. Please help me make this article make sense to everyone, for young peoples sake.

Thanks. Supercool Dude (talk) 00:11, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Please see my reply on User talk:Supercool Dude (and scroll up to others' earlier comments that pertain as well).
 * Such comments about editing the article and how to improve it need to be placed on this article talk page. Missing citations are needed for undocumented (unsourced) content that was placed in this article by earlier editors.  I simply tried to improve the style and grammar as an earlier template-placer requested [and also formatted the earlier improperly-formatted references sec., making it into proper note citations]; see the templates on the article and at the top of this talk page for Wikipedia editing policies and guidelines: WP:POL.  I do not have interest or time to edit this article any further.  Thank you.  --NYScholar (talk) 03:57, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Throughout the article, I've placed templates relating to missing citations; every statement in the article needs to be documented with full source citations: see Guidelines for controversial articles for related guidelines. The creator of the article is responsible for documenting the content that he/she added with reliable and verifiable source citations that meet the requirements of WP:V.  Thank you. --NYScholar (talk) 04:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


 * If one checks the editing history and examines "diffs." Diffs., one will see that an anon. IP user deleted some material in the section on celebrity deaths that left out the beginning part of the sentence; I just restored it and the deleted source citation that documents part of it. The rest of the list needs proper source citations for each name added that is currently undocumented (unsourced) [e.g., another edit that needs source(s) is visible at the following Diffs. inserted by the same anon. IP user.] I do not have the time to do such further work.  I leave that to others to do.  Thank you. [Updated.] --NYScholar (talk) 04:55, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Too many missing citations still
I just deleted an entirely undocumented statement that according to a hidden editorial interpolation (visible only in preview mode) was based on an original interpretation and which had no in-line citation following it to support such an interpretation; I deleted it on the basis of Wikipedia core policy WP:NOR. This article is missing so many citations that its verifiability and reliability are highly questionable. It might become subject to deletion if it continues not to meet the three Wikipedia core editing policies, WP:NOR; WP:V; and Neutral point of view; and related parts of WP:BLP, which does pertain to recently-deceased persons mentioned anywhere in Wikipedia space and those related to them who are still living. These policies are strictly enforced, for reasons given in the policy pages. --NYScholar (talk) 21:16, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

This problem has actually even worsened, since I posted the above. As per the talkpage header and controversy header, I have marked many of the sections and statements missing citations. They still must have them. Please do not add ELs at the end of a sentence or put them at end of Notes sec.; a properly-formatted source citation, following the prevailing format for citations in this article, is required. Please scroll up and also see below as well. Thank you. --NYScholar (talk) 01:10, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Various
"People who engage in polypharmacy are at an elevated risk of dying from CDI." - Seems like it needs a reference, but... it's really such a basic assertion that anyone could verify it's veracity. Polypharmacy is the use of multiple drugs, so of course people who engage in polypharmacy are more likely to die from combined drug intoxication - it's a simple product of their greater use of drugs. Referencing this statement would be like referencing the statement "Firefighters are at an increased risk of dying in fires." Fuzzform (talk) 04:32, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Editing policy in Wikipedia requires reliable verifiable source citations for all of these kinds of statements; see WP:CITE, WP:NOR, and the related linked editing policies and guidelines, as per talkpage header as well. --NYScholar (talk) 01:07, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

This is an important medical article, and it requires proper source citations and documentation through reliable references. Otherwise, it could mislead many readers all over the world. It also mentions many persons who are deceased or still living and thus is subject to WP:BLP, as it relates to both recently-deceased persons and living persons mentioned in relation to them (their relatives). There is no excuse for the lack of source citations in this article and the problem still does need to be corrected completely. Otherwise, the article might become subject to a deletion request. --NYScholar (talk) 01:38, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Reference to Barack Obama is questionable (at best), superfluous, unverifiable, irrelevant, unnecessary and should be removed posthaste.65.49.216.57 (talk) 04:42, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

CDI = Death?
As it stands the article seems to suggest (mostly by emphasis) that CDI is generally used as a description of a cause of death, and not to describe the state of simply being intoxicated from multiple drugs. If this is the case perhaps it should be stated more definitely, because the natural interpretation of "combined drug intoxication" doesn't of itself suggest a fatal outcome. If it is not the case, and the term is used medically for, say, someone arriving in ER on multiple pharmaceuticals in a sorry way, but not dead or likely to die, then perhaps that could be made clear.--Mongreilf (talk) 18:27, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Removed
Uncited and factually incorrect information located in the beginning of the article has been erased, as it should be. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.188.52.5 (talk) 08:46, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Celebrity deaths relevant to the article?
Hello fellow Wikipedians!

I came across this page in Recent Changes patrol and I was struck by the fact that a lot of this article seems to focus on celebrities who have (allegedly) died as a result of combined drug intoxication (a lovely topic, indeed!) While it is doubtless that some of the information is notable, it would seem rather unencyclopedic that such a large section of the article seems to be dedicated to such a topic. Does anyone have any suggestions on how we can approach that to remedy it? Perhaps make the more relevant ones examples within the main body of the article and remove the more superfluous ones?

Cheers, ✎ Peter M Dodge  ( Talk to Me ) 09:24, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Celeb Deaths
Hi there!

I started this article because nice people like Anna Nicole Smith and her Son died from CDI/MDI. It is a warning to our children that if you take too many drugs in combination, you can die, even if you use them as directed by doctors and pharmacists. Already I have found this article in forums that are related to the celebs. Someone will find their favorite star listed dead from MDI/CDI and the warning will sink in. This phenom has killed too many innocent people.

Supercool Dude (talk) 21:28, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Statement of fact in the "Celeb Deaths" section not clear enough...
"Most doctors today are commonly switching from Methadone to Tramadol as a substitute for Methadone, as it is safer, kills pain effectively, and is non-addicting and cannot make people high.".

This has citations, but I'd be willing to bet the intended meaning in the original sources is that tramadol would not get an opioid tolerant person, like a person who is on methadone or another potent full mu agonist, high. Tramadol is a prodrug for a weak opioid and has a dose ceiling. It will, however, get non-tolerant people a mild opioid high despite not being a controlled substance. The package insert even warns of this possibility.

Tramadol's "upgraded" cousin tapentadol, which has only ONE ring in its structure (amazing for an opioid) is MUCH more potent (even MORE amazing ... less rings than tramadol, but MORE potent ... very surprising drug to come from grunenthal). Tapentadol is CII in the U.S. controlled substances act while tramadol is unscheduled. Tapentadol causes a full fledged opioid high indistinguishable from more well known opioids like Dilaudid and OxyContin, it's just weaker mg for mg and a larger dose must be taken for equipotent effects (not surprising ... they may have managed to get a full mu agonist with no dose ceiling that has only one ring, but it stopped there, high potency mg for mg was NOT gonna happen). Regardless, tapentadol (brand name Nucynta) is a CII opioid. Tramadol is not scheduled at all (it's much weaker), but produces a high for many people with no opioid tolerance. Its metabolite M1 is a weak mu agonist. If there was any consistency in the CSA it would be CV since d-propoxyphene, which is widely considered less desirable than even tramadol recreationally, is controlled in CIV.

I just feel that the statement that tramadol "cannot make people high" is too vague. It "cannot make those with a pre-existing high opioid tolerance to potent mu agonists high" would be better. I'll leave it for now but talk about it guys. Thesmallprint189 (talk) 09:45, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

cdi
i had a friend who just died of cdi... they said he died pecefully in his sleep...is this true or is it painfull and they are just not telling me the truth66.60.213.25 (talk) 00:51, 13 April 2009 (UTC) still hurting in minnesota

Re: cdi
I just read this and I am crying for you. Sorry to hear your tragic loss. Your friend probably died peacefully while asleep and unconscious.

Bronxboy2009AAA —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.121.76.62 (talk) 04:34, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Rory Gallagher
According to the article, Rory Gallagher "died from alcohol and Polydrug Abuse". However, Rory Gallagher states he died after a liver transplant, probably because of an MRSA infection. This is backed up by the obituary in the NY Times.

I suggest to remove Rory's name from the list.

Whimpynl (talk) 22:45, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

I agree. His alcohol and drug intake may have caused his need of a liver transplant, but it was almost certainly the MRSA infection that killed him. I'll take him out of the list. --Kay Dekker (talk) 19:14, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Speedballs
I do not think we should include people who died from Cocaine and Heroin Speedballs like John Belushi, because they are probably dying from Cocaine or Heroin overdoseing which is not MDI /CDI. An example is Dirty Ol Bastard who was a rapper. He died from Tramadol and Cocaine. He must have overdosed on one or both. Many Celebs have died from Speedballing and I don't want them included. What is the proper dosing for snorting or smoking Cocaine anyways? If these deaths involved a prescription from a MD, then maybe....

Supercool Dude (talk) 22:00, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

CDI Definition
I believe the definition of CDI is being blurred in this article. The criteria for CDI is two or more drugs combine into a poison and it kills the patient. CDI can happen even while a doctor is present like in the case of Michael Jackson's death. If a person is taking several drugs and overdoses on one, then he died from Overdose, which is completely different from CDI/MDI.

John Belushi died from murder and should be taken off the list like other Speedballers. Most Speedballers die from Heroin or morphine overdose, not CDI. Most CDI victims die from respiratory arrest while asleep from the tranquilizers. First they fall asleep, then they stop breathing, then the heart stops. Brain death happens 3 minutes after oxygen cutoff.

Some people ruin their Livers and get a transplant and then die from complications. The Cyclosporine suppresses the immune system and leaves the patient open to infections.

Some CDI victims vomit while unconscious. The vomitus blocks the airway and the victim dies from asphyxiation.

Some CDI patients die from CDI caused intestinal blockage. People are literally dieing on their toilet bowls while moving their bowels. The feces cannot move out of the body and the straining of the bowels may cause heart failure. This almost killed my mother.

CDI can happen even if every medicine is prescribed and taken as directed. No drug overdose happens. Reporters are always confusing us with Overdose and CDI.

It is like they are stupid and do not know the difference. Congress is now holding hearings at President Obama's request.

I want to publicize this article in the media. I want this warning to go out. I want us Wikipedians to do more than inform. I want us to save Human lives.

Supercool Dude (talk) 18:44, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Amy Jade Winehouse
Eveyrone here knows I am one of her fans. I cannot bring myself to write that she died from Alcohol and Librium, which may qualify her for the list of celebs who died from MDI. When it become official soon, please, could someone else write the addition to that article. This article has saved no ones life.

Supercool Dude (talk) 19:05, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

examples/possible table
for scientific relevance, this article might use a table with possible drug combinations and doses studied that cause or exacerbate cdi. most of the article is just anecdotal. FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 18:19, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Sad Duty
I just added Philip Seymour Hoffman to the Speedball Deaths list of celebrities. I personally think that anyone who uses Heroin injection or Amphetamine injection or Cocaine injection to get high is either completely insane or extremely stupid. I started this Wiki article hoping to save peoples lives by informing and educating. I now see that I am wrong! I just watched a local news reporter say that Hoffman died from Drug Overdose. He did not die from overdose. He died from Multiple Drug Intake. Taking two or more interacting drugs acts like a poison and kills the victim. A person can take two or more drugs as directed without overdosing and still perish! Michael Jackson's doctor was present while he died. He did NOT overdose. I plan on going on national television to promote this article in hopes of reducing this tragedy. Most of these celebrities were nice people who raised Billions for charity. It makes me sad every time I add to this list. This list gets longer every year. When taking medicines or recreational drugs, please be careful. Many drugs depress breathing and two or more drugs can stop breathing. After a person stops breathing, it takes three minutes and Brain Cells shrink and the victim becomes Brain Dead.

Supercool Dude (talk) 21:41, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

Be careful about avoiding advocacy here. Advocacy But your point about the confusion is important. There is a difference between overdose and combined drug toxicity. It is often poorly described, both in wikipedia and otherwise. I want to make sure that the difference is clear in the articles which mention heroin. I just removed "Category:Deaths by heroin overdose in New York" from Hoffman's article. Then kept on going and corrected overdose listing on Heroin page for River Phoenix, Philip Seymour Hoffman, and Cory Monteith, as well as fixing their pages. Nereocystis (talk) 20:18, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

I suggested a rename of the category Deaths by heroin overdose to Heroin-related deaths. Please feel free to discuss it here: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Death. Nereocystis (talk) 21:05, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

Acetaminophen / Paracetamol
I don't think it's correct to include poisoning due to paracetamol (acetaminophen) in this article. If you overdose on a combination of Percocet and Nyquil, it's not because of an interaction between the ingredients, e.g. oxycodone+antihistamine or oxycodone+dextromethorphan. It's because Percocet contains acetaminophen, and Nyquil also contains acetaminophen. The result is an overdose of a single drug, not a combined drug intoxication. --ABehrens (talk) 03:14, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

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