Talk:Concerns and controversies related to UEFA Euro 2012

PROD
This is not attempting to make a WP:POINT. This material was severely censored in the article in which it started and so I moved the content here rather than face charges of WP:UNDUE there. WP:NOTNEWSPAPER does not apply either since it offers many WP:RSs. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 16:46, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I think this article is notable, and allows us to shorten the main and overly long criticism section at 2012_UEFA_European_Football_Championship. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 21:35, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

On BBC documentary
The BBC documentary mentioned here has been discussed and criticized by Gazeta Wyborcza here. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 21:37, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Why has the Sky Sports documentary not been noted as well, particularly considering it aired first.--80.1.84.177 (talk) 22:34, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Can you link to it or commentary on it? Volunteer Marek 22:35, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Polish response to BBC documentary
Why is the Polish response to the BBC documentary not relevant? --Walter Görlitz (talk) 18:39, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
 * In short, I think what is being said is that every region has negative elements and that it is not necessarily relevant to single one group out over against another. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 18:40, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
 * The response to the documentary is relevant, as in: "actually, those are isolated cases and don't mean all Poles are racist". But this particular response being mentioned - "actually, you're/we're racist too" - is neither here nor there in this article. Fine for newspapers to whinge about, but not WP. Btw, Stan Colleymore isn't Polish, so says nothing about "the Polish response".
 * He is responding to a a documentary about racism in Polish football and is clearly a notable commentator. Context is important and essential for NPOV. Volunteer Marek 20:43, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Btw, the other part I got rid of, repeatedly added by VM, erroneously said that "British" footballers had made racist comments: only one is British (guess what, it's not Suarez!). It's also debatable whether one short article by one journalist is worth picking out. Why is his response more worthy than any other journalist's? It's not. Malick78 (talk) 20:14, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't understand your concern here, it just seems like you're strenuously trying to invent something to object too. "British footballers" could just as well refer to players in the English league. And Terry's obviously British by any definition. Volunteer Marek 20:43, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
 * A quick check at Aviram Baruchyan's page, shows that he arrived in Poland in January 2012. Are we surprised the BBC cut him saying he'd seen nothing untoward? His experience is too limited to have been worth mentioning, UNLESS he had seen racism. It's quite obvious why it was cut and there mention of it is UNDUE, since it's quite reasonable of the BBC to have not included him.Malick78 (talk) 20:38, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
 * That's your own personal WP:OR hence, who cares? How do you know why BBC did what it did? Volunteer Marek 20:40, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Sometimes we use common sense here. Shock. Horror. If you can find other authors who think the issue is noteworthy, maybe it is - but it sounds like the journalist is just clutching at straws. Someone who hasn't seen something is a boring interviewee, especially if he's not been around long enough to make his lack of experience notable. That is the case with Baruchjan. That will be why he was cut.Malick78 (talk) 21:00, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Sometimes we do. The problem is that your "sense" is not necessarily "common sense". You making stuff up = original research, not common sense. Volunteer Marek 21:01, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Please be specific. What has been made up? I got his length of time from his WP, the rest is logic.Malick78 (talk) 21:07, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Logic? No, that's the part where you make stuff up. Volunteer Marek 21:12, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Btw, the guy has learnt to avoid issues of race: "When Beitar captain Aviram Baruchyan announced in 2009 that he would like to see Arabs on the team, fans bombarded him with criticism, prompting him to recant. “The most painful thing is that I unfortunately hurt Beitar’s fans, and I understood that I hurt them very much,” he said after a reconciliation meeting with members of La Familia, a Beitar fan club." I'd say that was pretty telling. The BBC was right to cut him. Malick78 (talk) 21:40, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Ok. Volunteer Marek 22:10, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

I agree.

One other thing - care should be taken to at least get the tense right, particularly since this is an article dealing mostly with old stuff. For example: "Anti-discrimination training is being provided for 80,000 police officers and match stewards in Ukraine" should obviously be "has been provided", etc. Volunteer Marek 19:09, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Old stuff? You mean historical information? There's "stuff" in Wikipedia from several thousand years ago. What sort of care are you suggesting is needed? --Walter Görlitz (talk) 18:00, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, but we don't write about stuff from several thousand years ago in present tense. Volunteer Marek 18:23, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Another Polish news article, discussing the foreign criticism and how it has all been proven false by now:. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 10:27, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

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