Talk:Confederation Bridge

Fixed links across elsewhere?
Can anyone add more info on the possible plans of contructing a tunnel and/or bridge across to the other side elsewhere? I am quite curious as to whether any steps have been taken to decide to build infrastructure links across the:
 * Strait of Messina
 * Cook Strait
 * Palk Strait
 * Strait of Tartary
 * Irish Sea
 * Strait of Bonifacio
 * Surigao and San Bernardino Straits
 * Hainan Strait
 * Strait of Georgia
 * Kvarken
 * Chacao Channel
 * Strait of Magellan
 * Bering Strait

Anyone with inside knowledge on any of these? I've posted similar requests elsewhere. Gruesome Twosome! 8v] //Big Adamsky 10:15, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

It would be useful for the article to mention the average and maximum water depths, and compare that to other bridges, and to the English Channel in the vicinity of the Channel Tunnel.

Photo of the bridge
I noticed that there is only one photograph of the bridge in this article, and that one is from about 20,000 feet. I think this article would be well-served by another photograph at ground level.

I have what I think is an exceptional photo from an artistic and technical standpoint - taken 50m Rt of the base of the bridge - on the sandy beach on the NB side -a short stroll from the welcome center. The bridge appears just to go off into infinity into the horizon. The water is like glass. There is a wonderful cirrus cloud pattern overhead.

It's film -- not digital. I have an extra copy if one of the principal creators of this article is interested in maybe evaluating it for yourself, and if it meets with your approval, scanning it into the article. I'm willing to mail it to you. Hokeman 15:16, 8 March 2006 (UTC)


 * If possible, I'd suggest you be bold, scan it yourself if possible, and upload it (link at left) under a license you're comfortable with as the image's author. If that does not appeal, another user will hopefully volunteer to scan... Radagast 15:42, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Effect
This passage:
 * The island has also witnessed a revolution in its retail sector since the opening of the Fixed Link. Prior to 1997, big box stores could only be found in larger centres in the Maritimes such as Halifax, Moncton, or Saint John. Prince Edward Island had a larger number of smaller, family-owned retail stores than other provinces, with few shopping malls and less selection of consumer goods. The opening of the Fixed Link was viewed with concern by government and the retail sector alike, as many thought Islanders would use the quicker transportation connection to drive to Moncton for many large-item purchases. While there was a small increase in the number of off-Island shoppers, the provincial government established a program of encouraging big box retailers to establish in the province, including elimination of provincial sales tax on clothing and footwear, resulting in a plethora of chains such as Wal-Mart, Future Shop, Staples, and Home Depot choosing to build stores on the Island. Correspondingly, many smaller locally-owned stores have gone out of business in one of the more visible impacts since the opening of the Fixed Link.

needs a reference or citation. How can this be attributed soley to the bridge, when it has happened in communities throughout North America? --69.157.108.7 05:26, 27 August 2006 (UTC)


 * True enough, the phenomena has occurred throughout the continent, but in most cases it was delayed on the Island by lack of direct transportation links. Fact is, PEI does have (had) a much larger proportion of smaller, family-owned businesses than other jurisdictions.  This is a partnership between transportation accessibility (or lack thereof), a large proportion of private land ownership dedicated to agriculture (which wasn't as likely to sell out to developers prior to the 1990s) and tight social networks that precluded large companies from succeeding, when you would be "talked about for weeks if you didn't buy your grass seed from so-and-so's Home Hardware and instead went to the Cdn. Tire"....
 * So while the link opening coincided with most of the retail changes, it can't be directly blamed. Two things that the link did change were in grocery stores retail and distrubtion operations, as well as clothing/gov't encouragement of big box stores.
 * Most supermarkets in PEI prior to 1997 were small (ie. < 40,000 ft2), local stores, and Sobeys and Atlantic Wholesalers (the 2 big players in the Maritimes) had large warehouse operations that were well-stocked in the fall leading up to possible winter-time ferry delays. The first big-box supermarket opened in the fall of 1996 in advance of the link opening the next spring.  More followed and the warehouses closed when it became feasible to use the larger, better-equipped warehouses in Moncton or Halifax.
 * Most supermarkets in PEI prior to 1997 were small (ie. < 40,000 ft2), local stores, and Sobeys and Atlantic Wholesalers (the 2 big players in the Maritimes) had large warehouse operations that were well-stocked in the fall leading up to possible winter-time ferry delays. The first big-box supermarket opened in the fall of 1996 in advance of the link opening the next spring.  More followed and the warehouses closed when it became feasible to use the larger, better-equipped warehouses in Moncton or Halifax.
 * Most supermarkets in PEI prior to 1997 were small (ie. < 40,000 ft2), local stores, and Sobeys and Atlantic Wholesalers (the 2 big players in the Maritimes) had large warehouse operations that were well-stocked in the fall leading up to possible winter-time ferry delays. The first big-box supermarket opened in the fall of 1996 in advance of the link opening the next spring.  More followed and the warehouses closed when it became feasible to use the larger, better-equipped warehouses in Moncton or Halifax.


 * The 1996-1997 period saw considerable debate among Island clothing retailers and politicians who feared the economic damage should Islanders travel in greater numbers to the large malls and retail outlets in NB, NS or elsewhere, without having to worry about "making the boat" Sunday evening to get home for work on Monday morning, etc. This led to instituting no provincial sales tax on clothing & footwear purchases > $100.


 * Finally, in the late 1990s, there were two department stores left on the island after locally independent retailer R.T. Holman Co. went bankrupt: Zellers & Eaton's.  We all know what happened to Eaton's...  Premier Binns and a few cabinet ministers even travelled to Toronto to visit with the Eaton's family to persuade them to keep the Ch'town store open, but to no avail as the entire chain was bankrupt.  So... again, to keep Islanders from flocking in even greater numbers to the mainland, the provincial gov't, in an act of desperation, sought out, you guessed it, Wal-Mart.  And they actually subsidized WM to build in Ch'town and rebuilt highway intersections, etc. to get the retailer in there, when in retrospect, WM would likely have paid for those changes themselves in a few years had the business case been there to come to PEI.  Again, indirectly related to the link, but the link was responsible for the 0% tax on clothing/footwear, so it led to further changes such as WM, and other stores coming in.


 * Transportation reliability opens the floodgates, so to speak.Plasma east 17:43, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Would be good to see inclusion of effects on more things than just tourism as shown today. Zaurus (talk) 16:09, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

Toll
I couldn't help but notice the toll for the bridge is CDN$40.50 for cars. I checked this to be sure and it is indeed true. This is staggeringly high; I would be furious if I lived on PEI and finally got a bridge to the mainland only to find out the astronomical price for a trip. Why is the toll so high? The Vasco da Gama Bridge in Portugal is a little bit longer (17km) and cost about the same to build (price just given as $1 billion, assume it's USD). The toll is €2.15, collected in one direction only. This is about $3.25! What a huge difference! Is there anything published that has said why the price was so ridiculously high and if there was any outcry?--Analogue Kid 02:56, 14 February 2007 (UTC)


 * As an Islander, I agree, it is very high. The toll schedule was established in the months prior to the bridge opening in spring 1997.  The ferry system charged fares but required a subsidy from the federal gov't because it did not make enough money on fares alone (very few ferry systems or public transportation systems do break even, at least in Canada with sparse population and big geography).  This top-up subsidy in the mid-1990s was around $40 million.  The agreement signed with SCI to privately finance the construction of the bridge for $1 billion, allows SCI to now receive the $40 million annual ferry subsidy from the feds for 35 years as a mortgage payment, so that in 2033 or around there, the gov't of Canada will own and take over operation of the bridge.  This pays off the construction bonds for $1 billion.   Until that time (2033), SCI is allowed to collect a toll which covers its operating costs and provides a profit to its investors.  This toll was set for a single automobile at the same rate as the ferry system charged for 1 car and 1 adult passenger ($17.50 each direction or $35.00 total).  This was what the bridge toll started at in 1997 and it is allowed to increase each year to the rate of inflation (CPI).  I remember that for the first 2 years there was no increase, then it jumped to $36.25, then $37.00 or $37.50, etc. until we're at this price, 10 years after it opened.  Hope this helps explain the high toll rate somewhat.Plasma east 12:59, 22 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Up until this past year, other vehicles were charged roughly the same rates that the ferry system had charged, which was passenger-based. So a bus was charged something like $250-300 return trip over the bridge (crazy, but if you looked at a ferry, each passenger cost about $10 and they needed to track how many were on the ship for safety reasons...) and trucks were charged a very minimal $45 return (since freight rates were further subsidized to PEI to try to keep cost of living comparable with the rest of the Maritimes).  And for pedestrians and cyclists, who would normally have to pay the ferry a "walk on passenger" fare, the bridge charged nothing because they decided to operate a free shuttle service.  Anyway, last year, SCI finally changed this last vestige of the ferry fares, changing everything over to a system based on the number of axles a vehicle has - so trucks jumped higher (to their protest) and the buses reduced from $250-300 to slightly less than trucks. Pedestrians and cyclists now have to pay something like $2/return for the shuttle service.Plasma east 13:09, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
 * This is because of very low usage (because of very low population). Let say there are 50 000 vehicules crossing the bridge in Portugal each day. That's way more than PEI's 4000. 50000*3.25 is pretty close to 4000*40.50, by the way. So this is comparable. Both bridges will pay for themselves at about he same rate. --zorxd (talk) 17:53, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

I looked for a source to the claim that the confederation bridge had the highest toll in North America but I could not find anything. It's probably true but hasn't been reviewed. Charbon (talk) 19:06, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Map and arieal photo links, not working
The map links in the bottom of the info box are not working but the ones linked from the lat/long link at the top right do work. I couldn't figure out how to fix them.

http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=46.215278,-63.745833&spn=0.3,0.3&t=h&q=46.215278,-63.745833 - works

http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=46%C2%B012%E2%80%B255%E2%80%B3N,63%C2%B044%E2%80%B245%E2%80%B3W&spn=0.015,0.025 - doesnt work

looks like the degree and other symbols are being sent in the url where they aren't understood by any of the mapping websites. I'm using firefox 2.0.0.3 --Dave1g 07:59, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

steamboats etc
Why is this section in here? It doesn't really have anything to do with the bridge and more has to do with PEI itself.--Crossmr 05:10, 30 July 2007 (UTC)


 * This section refers to the history of transportation options crossing the Northumberland Strait at Abegweit Passage and other points. This is related to the Confederation Bridge since these services were contributing factors to the call for a "fixed link" since the 1870s, leading to aborted development attempts in the 1950s and 1960s and finally culminating in the present structure in the 1990s.Plasma east 17:25, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Builders
It should be mentioned that the French group Vinci built the bridge. I know it will hurt anglophones, but who gives a damn. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.45.180.152 (talk) 00:22, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Bridge Ranking
I am removing the comment about the ranking of the bridge in terms of length, as per the note on the list of bridges by length.

"There is no standard way to measure the total length of a bridge. Some bridges are measured from the beginning of the entrance ramp to end of the exit ramp. Some are measured from shoreline to shoreline. Yet others are the length of the total construction involved in building the bridge. Since there is no standard, no ranking of these bridges should be assumed because they are at a specific position in this list. Additionally, numbers are merely estimates and measures in U.S. customary units (feet) may be imprecise due to conversion error." (List of bridges by length)

Design
The diagram makes it look more like a balanced cantilever structure. 82.46.109.233 (talk) 21:51, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Air draft
I reverted your addition of a wikilink to air draft and need a bit more room than the edit summary to explain. Air draft is a measurement of sea vessels incorporating their height above water plus their hull depth below water; it's not a measurement of bridge height. It's not accurate to say that the bridge's physical height above water is its air draft. According to the Transport Canada guidelines, vessels sailing under the Confederation Bridge must have a maximum air draft of 28 metres for the portions that are 40m above water, and 48m for the 60m navigation span. I'm not sure if we normally include those measurements in bridge articles. Ivanvector's squirrel (trees/nuts) 12:57, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
 * The link should have been Air draft. I have seen it used in all articles about bridges over navigable waters. eg Sydney Harbour Bridge, London Bridge, Suez Canal Bridge etc. Peter Horn User talk 16:14, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
 * In all cases see the info box. Add Welland Canal Bridge 11 Peter Horn User talk 16:35, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
 * I see what you mean, and also I see I referred to air draft incorrectly (I described deep draft), but now the infobox has two different measurements for the main navigation span and the near-shore spans. The main navigation span has a clearance of 60m, corresponding to a maximum air draft of 48m. The near-shore spans are lower and have a clearance of 40m (max air draft 28m). I corrected both to the clearance measurement, since that's what the link refers to and what the other articles seem to follow. Ivanvector's squirrel (trees/nuts) 17:15, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Make that deep draft. There is also clearance above which only applies to truss bridges such as the Bordeaux Railway Bridge or any bridge that has a structure above the deck such as the Lachapelle Bridges. However in many cases the clearance above is not given. Peter Horn User talk 17:59, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
 * As a yachtsman, air draft is described as the height of the obstruction from the waterline of the vessel to the highest point of the superstructure. It is measured at High High Water Springs tide. (HHWS on nautical charts.) For our vessel, that number is 41'. For example, the St. Peters Canal here in Nova Scotia has an air draught of 105' or 32 metres because of power lines. Hope this is of help.  Aloha27  talk  18:24, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Very helpful indeed, dead on. Peter Horn User talk 18:55, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

Rename of the bridge?
Putting this CBC News source here re: renaming the bridge to Epekwitk Crossing, it might be useful.  Liliana UwU  (talk / contributions) 18:20, 2 March 2024 (UTC)