Talk:Count of St. Germain/Archive 1

Historical St Germain
I'd like to see the Theosophy stuff have it's own separate page. It's distinct from the historical, factual Saint Germain. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Farrtj (talk • contribs) 12:33, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Untitled
Is it really "Chateru de Chambord", or Chateau? Is it really Napoleon II? RickK 02:24, 17 Aug 2003 (UTC) Hi Rick. It's chateau (in French, with a circumflex over the first "a"). Chateau means a castle or pleasure palace. Very best wishes

Hi Rick. No, it wasn't Napoleon II. He never ruled France. He was imprisoned by the Austrians after 1815. He died in Austria. It was the Emperor Napoleon 111 (the third) who tried to build up the files on the Comte de Saint Germain. Very best wishes

second page
Somebody who speaks better English than I do, please visit Count Saint-Germain. Before I made a redirect to this page, it had its own content. Please check if all information is in the longer article, two. Thank you. -- Sciurus 02:20, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Police officers arrest a confidence trickster for selling bottles filled with a liquid that he claims slows the aging process. One officer tells his partner, "Mike, check his record. My instinct tells me that our boy has played this game before." Mike reports back. "You're right, he's got form. He was nicked for the same thing in 1955, 1898, 1721..."

This is quite an old joke. Should this be added to some sort of 'Trivia' section?
 * NO. Trivia sections are discouraged under Wikipedia rules, and "old jokes" with a tenuous relation to the article's subject have no place here. And sign your posts. Canonblack 21:57, 17 September 2007 (UTC)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.22.250.4 (talk)

Good joke, though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.148.202.129 (talk) 21:05, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

I took the liberty to remove the following sentence from the article text: "According to some people St Germain is currently an environmentalist engineer in the Netherlands and is living in a town called IJsselstein near the big city of Utrecht." MCiura 19:46, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
 * It would be interesting to know who those "some people" are. I would not be surprised if somebody, somewhere would again claim to be the Count but to include him to the article would take more references. - Skysmith 12:09, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

Isn't the mention of the Count's role in Foucault's Pendulum a bit of a spoiler?

Clarification on name
Was this person from Saint-Germain-en-Laye? -- Beland 21:02, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
 * No -- his title originates from a patent of nobility issued by the Holy Roman Emperor in 1324. HenriLobineau 11:00, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
 * According to Wikipedia there wasn't a Holy Roman Emperor in 1324; the throne was disputed. Do you have a source for this?Mswake 22:47, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Removal of alias
As there appears to be very little information on "Frazer Oldham" besided an outdated website and a Myspace account, I deleted the line claiming that "Frazer Oldham" was considered to be the Count in 2000.

add alias "Comte de Saint-Germain"?
Hi - Really like the article. However, I originally did a wiki-search on "Comte de Saint-Germain" and found another Count, lacking the ineffable charms of our mystic rogue. The historic Count is also a great entry, but while reading it, I was confused by his mortality.

Would it be possible to add an entry to this one that references his French spelling? That's searchable from the main Wikipedia site? I propose that it'd add to the utility of this entry, being that he's referenced by both titles in literature.

He's IMMORTAL. Surely the guy is worth being listed in more than one language! :D

--Trai dep 05:39, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Death or otherwise
If the assumption of this page is that he's immortal (which I admit I have a problem with), why is one date of death preferred to any other? Presumably if he's 70,000 years old he's been assumed to have died a few times! Wouldn't it be better to delete the dates altogether, or even just provide a birth date? Mswake 22:47, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Update - I checked the Wikipedia Manual of Style and have now used the correct form for when dates of birth and death are unknown. See Manual_of_Style_%28dates_and_numbers%29. Mswake 14:01, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

His death is well known and information is available from a number of sources (e.g. http://www.forteantimes.com/features/profiles/499/the_count_of_stgermain.html). The exclusion of such material gives this article the appearance of an occult promotion rather than an account of the known facts about a mildly interesting eighteenth century confidence trickster. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.141.17.187 (talk) 17:06, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Editing for sources and citations
I'm going to try and clean up the "Life" section. I found an actual reference in the Horace Walpole letter (which doesn't say he was in Edinburgh, by the way) so kept and indeed expanded that. I plan to work through and delete anything not reliably sourced. This page will probably end up being a lot shorter, but hey - he's mysterious, right?

There's a lot on this page that doesn't stand up to the most cursory scrutiny - for instance, I've deleted a claim that he was "said to be as good a violinist as Paganini" in the 1740s and 1750s when Paganini wasn't born until 1782. Mswake 22:07, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

editing unsourced material
Lots of unsourced material deleted. I would guess that a lot of the claims originate with Isabel Cooper-Oakley, but if so we should say so (with page references so they can be verified). Deleted the claim that Casanova referred to him as "the violinist Catlini" on the basis of searching Casanova's memoirs (http://www.gutenberg.org/files/2981/2981.txt) for "Catlini", "violinist" and "violin" and coming up with nothing to support it. Added Casanova's (skeptical) account of meeting him. - —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mswake (talk • contribs) 18:23, May 19, 2007 UTC

standard spelling of name?
It occurs to me that it would be a good thing for the coherence of this article if we agreed on the spelling we'll use for its subject's name. Obviously this is more difficult than usual when there are so many aliases, pseudonyms and suggested identifications flying around, but can I suggest some basics and see what people think?

I suggest that the form "St Germain" (abbreviated St, no full stop) should be how the article normally refers to him - that is, when we're not citing a book title or quoting a source. This matches the title, and there doesn't seem to be a standard agreed on for people with this type of name.


 * When he is refered to in the "Ascended Master Teachings", the standard is to always spell out fully the world "Saint". It is never abbreviated by them. Among a number of reasons, one reason is that St. or St is usually used as an abbreviation for someone who is considered a canonized saint in the Catholic Church. Arion 3x3 (talk) 16:08, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Count St. Germain as Enoch
I read that St. Germain's identity was really the same identity as the mysterious figure of Enoch. It would be great if someone should look into the Enoch hypothesis. ADM (talk) 21:56, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Is he real?
So, was this guy made up or what? Is he a hoax? Or did Giuseppe Balsamo write him up? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.117.186.38 (talk) 00:39, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Correcting Raidou Example
St. Germain does NOT appear in that game, the famous figure is Rasputin, an entirely different person. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 157.130.185.110 (talk) 18:04, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Saint Germain
I have changed the "other uses" to Saint-Germain as Count Germain has more uses than two, it could mean the well known general Claude Louis, Comte de Saint-Germain as well for example. --Saddhiyama (talk) 23:15, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Using zakairan.com as a source or link
This site is the personal website of (ZaKaiRan) Kevin Crump of NSW, Australia. The site appears to exist to sell his services (healing), accept donations and sell a range of products on commission (for example http://zakairan.com/ProductsLightBodyHealth/LightBodyHealthProducts.htm). This site is an obvious scam or spam site and fails WP:ELNO and WP:RS. There is no excuse for including it in Wikipedia apart from for an article about this scam artist.—Ash (talk) 21:36, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Date
Uh, what's with the "10000 BC-2112" date at the top? Psychonavigation (talk) 07:43, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

St-Germain as Urban Everyman
It occurs to me that as the parish of St Germanus denotes the ancient limits of Paris, perhaps the title "Count of St Germanus" is merely a pseudonym in the style of a nobleman's title, intended actually to denote "man of the city", like the Duke of New York (Isaac Hayes' character in Escape from New York, derived ultimately from the name of the faux oakbeam inn from A Clockwork Orange). This would explain why he keeps popping up all over the place in different time periods: it really is someone else; and no, he isn't the Master Rakoczi.

This is probably original research, so I only include it here to drum up support for the idea - I've no idea if there may be corroboration in the relevant literature. Nuttyskin (talk) 16:26, 16 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't think so. For example the 18th century general Claude Louis, Comte de Saint-Germain (who was quite famous in his day), was definitely a certified noble. I have no idea what the title entails, though. --Saddhiyama (talk) 20:04, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Trimmed trivia section
The "In popular culture"-section had devolved into a trivia section. Per WP:TRIVIA I have removed most of it (all unsourced or non-reliably sourced). The popular culture section is only for if the person has had more than a minor appearance in various books, comics, mangas, games etc. I left the one about Pushkins novel and the Tchaikovsky opera because one seemed to have been influenced by the other, it is more than a minor appearance and both the author and composer are major cultural figures. Please do not add material to this section unless it is sourced, and do not add it in the form of a list, but use descriptive prose that explains its cultural significance (and with a source to back that up). Thank you. --Saddhiyama (talk) 16:25, 16 December 2010 (UTC)