Talk:Cross country running

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Chip Timing
This is my first contribution to Wikipedia, and I think it should be mentioned that they now have chip timing where there chip is located on the bib, allowing for the "chest time" to be taken accurately  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.255.54.149 (talk) 21:53, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

Possible Bad Links
When clicking on the hickoksports.com link I got this message: "This web site at www.hickoksports.com has been reported as an attack site and has been blocked based on your security preferences." Joe2832 (talk) 06:11, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Advertising hardly known athletes, teams
Please don't advertise runners and teams that are only known locally. Unless they run like 3 min miles or something like that, Wikipedia users could care less about a local athlete that has made no impact on the sport. Sorry.

No one can run a three minute mile, you need to learn more about the sport before you make comments
 * I think you need to sign your comments and read about Roger Bannister 82.17.136.199 (talk) 22:07, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

hill running/fell running
The first mention of hills used to link via 'hill running' to a redirect to 'fell running'

I think only us 'Brits' use the term fell running so I think the other way (in via hills -> hillrunning -> fell running) was probably better. Views? Linuxlad 21:09, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * I'm not entirely sure how widespread the sport is outside Britain? Anyone from non UK know anymore? Philipwhiuk (talk) 22:09, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

European CC
Is there anyone who would like to contribute on European standards and European-style courses? I think the article needs some non-US information.119 06:02, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * I'm not entirely sure on standard distances here in the UK, so I will look that up at some point, but I think they are similar to the US ones. A couple of points though are that I have never seen the flag system used here in the UK and have been running for nearly 10 years, and have also only seen the line to mark the course method used a couple of times. It might be useful to know that, in my experience, we tend to refer to the 'chute' as a 'funnel', however I don't know if that is solely a UK thing. We do, however, also tend to score upwards for teams (i.e. lowest score wins). Elephant Juice 01:47, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

Excessive Advertising
A lot of material on US training camps which appears to be essentially promotiional in intent, appears to have arrived in the last week. I think it is inappropriate here, and will delete unless the poster or frriends gives some justifiacation within a week.

Now done - Here is the deletion in full It doesn't look like WP material to me (it's advertising IMHO and too US-specific too - someone should put it on a separate web-site if it is not already from one!)

I don't really think the whole deletion needs to be on here. Takes up way too much space. Worldtravller 00:48, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Bob Kennedy
Although Kennedy is considered a great cross country runner there is no article on him. The internal link links to the baseball player not the runner. Therefore it has been removed.Worldtravller 21:59, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Methods of Scoring
Should the methods of how a meet is scored be included? i.e chip timing, pull tags, etc. Not totally useful but you never know.Worldtravller 00:48, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Never mind I found it. Must have missed it in an earlier reading. Worldtravller 00:59, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

I still find the the section on scoring very confusing. For example, the meaning of "dual meet" is never defined. Could someone improve this? Stuart H. Alden (talk) 23:15, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Picture needs updating
The picture depicts runners running through some sort of mud-river. I've never run through a mud-river before while running, why not just show runners running a path or something, rahter than stumbling in the mud? I'm going to change the pic because I saw that and really thought that was bizzare... if anyone has any objections just post.

Reply to updating
== Hey dont get rid of it i have run through mud and stuff like that in a xc race before. That is part of xc u never know what could be an effect, but that never stops the race. (Running in the mud is really fun!) :)

==
 * Put in the newer picture again after it was removed by an anon IP. The Oregon picture is atypical of a cross-country race.  MAG1 08:04, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm going to have to agree, in 99.9% of XC races you don't run through a mud river, or really any sort of obstacle. This could easily a view the wrong impression of the sport.


 * The problem is that in Britain, rivers/boggy patches are considered an important part of the course. I know that in the World Cross the course is just 'bumpy grass', which certainly isn't representative of most UK courses. Philipwhiuk (talk) 22:12, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

"Vest" as Equipment?
I have always heard the upper part of a cross country uniform referred to as a "singlet" or, less commonly, "tank top." Am I correct in understanding that in British English this piece of clothing is known as a "vest," or is somebody just unclear what exactly a vest is? Would it be appropriate to use the term "singlet" instead of "vest" in the article? I was just going to add "singlet" in parentheses after "vest" but there were already parentheses there and it would have been confusing... I intend to change the wording if nobody feels this is too American-centric of me. Dunne409 07:36, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Vest is the word, as in the garment that can be worn under a shirt to keep warm. MAG1 07:59, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

But the jersey is not used as a vest worn under a shirt to keep warm. It is a singlet. 76.25.34.180 16:40, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Dunno what jerseys have to do with anything; I don't think knitwear is used generally in athletics circles. Singlet is a synonym of vest, but vest is the common word (as in a new international just having got his vest). . MAG1 08:12, 1 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Vest is the commonly accepted UK term, jersey is normally used for other sports... where a jersey is indeed awarded. Philipwhiuk (talk) 22:14, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

From my years in CX a uniform's fancy name was always a "singlet"....never a vest (American perspective) --05runner (talk) 04:49, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Fixed vandalism
I just repaired some vandalism done on the previous edit by a user at IP address 24.73.73.2. Looking at the talk page for the user, he has already been banned for vandalism, but I figured I would drop a note in here.--Raguleader 20:00, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks for helping out. sharp  dust  00:20, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
 * No problem, as a former cross counry runner, I had to stand up for the one physical sport I was ever even mediocre at. :*D --Raguleader 21:41, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

way to go stick up for us runners

Meets
Should a section be added at famous/important/big meets, like Nike Team Nationals? --Longhornsg 23:35, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


 * The problem is justifying what a big meet is. A county/state level race is probably non-notable, but I'm not entirely sure. I think if we the main countries selection races for the World Cross Country Champs, that would be a reasonable approach. Philipwhiuk (talk) 22:16, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Sport vs. Activity
Since cross country is a competitive athletic activity, I certainly think it is helpful to refer to it as a "sport" for the purposes of this article. Any disagreement? Dunne409 09:23, 30 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Go for it! (Be bold!). Philipwhiuk (talk) 22:17, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

High School and College
I'd like to add pages for high school cross country and collegiate cross country similar to the way that High School Football and collegiate football is treated. Should new pages be created or a topic created in Cross Country Running?PearlWhiteSerial 04:34, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd go with new pages. Do you have a link to your American football model? David D. (Talk) 07:17, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Best Strategy for a 5K
The most effective way to get a PR in Cross Country is not as this article suggests to run even splits, but to positive split.

no you want to run even or negative splits show me a legit site that says that you should un positive. i have run cross country for 5 years now and have talked to olypians and negatives are the way to go.

It is a matter of who the runner is. I for one can run perfect even splits, but that won't help me PR. I must run negative splits in order to take advantage of my speed. If I start out as fast as I can, I'll get sore by the middle of the race, but once I'm numb I can duke it out. Non-sprinters may find that positive splits are better, they are not capable of catching up and they will not tire themselves out to excessively. It also depends greatly on the coarse, the competition, and the philosophy/mental control that the runner has on the day of the race. Tim.thelion 05:53, 14 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia is not a strategy guide, so this shouldn't be here anyway! Philipwhiuk (talk) 22:19, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Agreed. No one is every going to agree on a "strategy" for running a PR. One tactic might work best for one person, but fail miserably for another. --05runner (talk) 04:50, 7 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree as well. There is no perfect strategy to run a 5K . . . or else everyone would PR every race. This is rather subjective information and different coaches will tell you differently. However, one thing that I believe is undebatable is that you have to make a conscious effort to run hard in the middle of the race, because that is where some runners may fall asleep.

ANarayan (talk) 22:43, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Team Scoring
I just added some tables to the team scoring section. However, I don't have time right now/am not sure how best to, update the text. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tim.thelion (talk • contribs) 01:04, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Expansion and Wikification of long sections
I've tried to reduce the US-centric structure adding UK based information in. Also I've seperated the long paragraphs often with sub-headings. 22:27, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Spikes
I have added a brief mention concerning the use of "flats" in some regions( such as California) where spikes are not allowed. Qcpw (talk) 23:03, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Only team sport?
Should not this article have a little more global view for the subject? Cross country running is mainly an individual sport and popular recreational activity in the majority of countries. And is there really a huge difference between cross country running and trail running?

Cross Country is a competitive sport, trail running is just something you do. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.139.212.78 (talk) 06:07, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
 * it can be both a sport or an activity based on whether it’s competitive or not.! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1016:B109:8649:CD46:F669:B02E:FE6D (talk) 14:08, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

Old Cross-country Clubs
The listing of the first formed cross-country clubs in the UK has at least one major omission. South London Harriers was formed in 1871, making it one of the very oldest, after a disagreement within Peckham AAC. (Our history records this Club in this way, not as Peckham Hare and Hounds. The Club was formed under this latter name, but apparently quickly changed its name to Peckham AC.) There are two possible explanations for the split from Peckham, but the two clubs are friendly rivals to this day, competing in an annual 'mob match' for the Nichols Cup. Fuller details are listed on:

http://www.southlondonharriers.org/club-history/

Peter Emery Chairman, South London Harriers

Snocross as a related sport
What exactly does Snocross have to do with cross country? Just wondering why its on related sports..... Runningguy  —Preceding undated comment was added at 23:34, 6 December 2008 (UTC).

92.10.107.185 (talk) 22:57, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Individual Results Example - names
If no one objects, I'm going to make the individual results names generic (ex. Runner A). There are a bunch of edits here that involve changing these names. These edits are trivia and annoying. Hopefully changing it to something that's not a name will make it so that users don't come around and make these joke edits--Omarcheeseboro (talk) 17:40, 26 May 2009 (UTC)


 * You're right. The concept does not require names places are sufficient. David D. (Talk) 17:54, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Minnesota and US centric nature of the article
As far as I can tell all of the pictures come from the UU and it appears as if three of the images are of cross country in Minnesaota. This is not an article on Minnesota cross-country running or USA cross-country running. There are two ways of tackling this. Either replace the images with a more broad based set of pictures or edit the captions so as to remove the bias impression given.--Lucy-marie (talk) 08:29, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

I am going to remove the names from the captions so as to remove the USA bias and the Minnesota Bias. If people have a view on this please discuss this here on how to proceed with out this bias being present.--Lucy-marie (talk) 12:37, 11 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I am in favor of replacing some of the images. Also I know you are against the whole US thing, but there an image from Oregon (made clear in caption), New Jersey/Tom's River and Colorado (US Armed Forces) --Omarcheeseboro (talk) 13:16, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

hyperbole re: Prefontaine
I just removed the following two sentences. "Perhaps one of the most well known cross country runners is Steve Prefontaine. Prefontaine, also known as 'Pre' revolutionized the sport in the 1970s and made it into what it is today." What justification is there for such a comment with respect to the sport of cross country? This seems very parochial and possibly even revisionist. David D. (Talk) 17:17, 15 December 2009 (UTC) I put Steve Prefontaine into the section of notable athletes.Rauterkus (talk) 13:21, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Section for Standardized Distances?
Although cross country is a worldwide sport, in the United States at least, there are common standards for distances. For example, most high schools run 5K's, and in college, men run 8K's or 10K's, depending on division. I think there should be a section that gives standard distances by country/region. ANarayan (talk) 22:39, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Training
The section on training seems to put a strange emphasis on core workouts, and not much talk about running in general, or even typical types of running workouts (like interval training, Fartleks, long distance runs, tempo runs, etc.). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.147.0.15 (talk) 18:28, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

The training stuff about core workouts seems like a joke. That should be removed like stated above, traditional running training that talks about speed, endurance, hill training should only be mentioned. Also anything about "will" and such should be removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gt1639a (talk • contribs) 13:27, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Rename

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: No consensus. There's no agreement that the house style should trump what appears to be the usual form of the name. Cúchullain t/ c 20:38, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Cross country running → Cross-country running – As per the naming convention in Cross country (disamb) Relisted. BDD (talk) 22:07, 21 March 2013 (UTC) Frap (talk) 20:35, 11 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Support per WP:HYPHEN. —  AjaxSmack   01:10, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose The wikipedia naming convention is getting in the way of the conventional way the sport is referred to by users. That should be the overriding consideration.  Let's start with our own article:  Foot Locker Cross Country Championships.  How many times is the phrase Cross Country used in the article and any article or source linked to it?  Not once is it hyphenated.  Look at other major organizations:  IAAF only hyphenates in the web address, NOT in any of their information or promotion of their meets.  IAAF is the world governing body.  USATF, where WP:OR I am personally an association Cross Country Chairman, spells it out without a hyphen (again except for the web address).  NCAA again no hyphen except the web address.  Nike just abbreviates it as Cross.  Lets get out of the US, so does British Athletics, then linking to the IAAF Cross Country series.  All these major organizations, not one of them using a hyphen.  For wikipedia to force a hyphen when it is not common is irresponsible. Trackinfo (talk) 03:19, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
 * OK, we need to cite guidelines. WP:NAMINGCRITERIA First line:  "Article titles are based on what reliable English-language sources refer to the article's subject by."  If the Sport governing bodies for this sport, worldwide and in individual countries, including specifically the dominant english speaking countries of the world, consistently use the non-hyphenated form, as I have proven above that they do, then Wikipedia should not try to alter that form to adhere WP:HYPHEN one of many other guidelines.  The point is for the article to be easily found.  It is already hindered by the fact that we must use the word "running" in the title to distinguish the term's application into our sport, as opposed to other uses of the two words.  Adding a hyphen would compound that difficulty. Trackinfo (talk) 02:36, 20 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Support (reversal of my previous vote if you check the page history). On closer inspection of WP:HYPHEN, AjaxSmack is quite right, and the guideline does make sense in this case and should be applied. Cross country doesn't need to be hyphenated everywhere, but in this context it's better if it is, and harmless. Andrewa (talk) 19:53, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Responding from Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Athletics. Not sure what part of WP:HYPHEN is being cited. The sport is typically not hyphenated (e.g. IAAF, USATF, NCAA, UK, Canadian, and Australian governing bodies, etc.) Location (talk) 21:03, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment: I was particularly referring to Manual of Style (shortcut WP:HYPHEN) which reads in part 3. To link related terms in compound modifiers:[3] Hyphens can help with ease of reading (face-to-face discussion, hard-boiled egg).... Footnote three reads Specifically, compound attributives, which are modifiers of a noun that occur within the noun phrase. (See Hyphenated compound adjectives.) This seems to be the situation exactly here. Andrewa (talk) 00:13, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I think an argument could be made for "cross-country running", but I think this issue requires additional feedback from others. The sport is typically referred to as simply "cross country" which suggests that maybe the article should be entitled Cross country (running) with a lead something like "Cross country is a running sport in which teams and individuals..." Location (talk) 05:45, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Agree on all counts. The plaque listing the annual winners at my school just read Cross Country, unqualified and unhyphenated (the second capital is stylistic). Its calendar still reads Cross country. Suggest relisting. Andrewa (talk) 23:46, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I think the current title is fine. For comparision: New York City is typically referred to as New York, but that is ambiguous and the full title is both technically and colloquially correct as here. New York (city) is an overworked stylistic choice in my opinion with its disruptive parentheses, just as Cross country (running) would be here. SFB 22:41, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Support. While cross country may be the common name, that term is ambiguous and so disambiguation is required. As per the article titles policy natural disambiguation is preferred to parenthetical we therefore come to "cross country running"/"cross-country running". As Andrewa and Ajax correctly point out WP:HYPHEN mandates using a hyphen in a case like this. Jenks24 (talk) 13:16, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose There is mixed usage and certainly neither is a wrong choice, but the non-hypenated version is more prevalent (see usages in Track and Field News, Athletics Weekly, IAAF). On the basis that common usage of the term tends towards without a hyphen, there is no convincing case for a move. SFB 21:30, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I think when there is mixed usage like this we should default to our own style guide (in this case WP:HYPHEN). Jenks24 (talk) 12:58, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Mixed usage? Where, other than the proponents on this page, is it used hyphenated.  All the official organizations, governing bodies and reporting agencies I can see use it non-hyphenated except when mandated by the limited technology of a web address.  And seriously, how many of us use the writing_style_of_web_addresses in our common writing?  Please demonstrate mixed usage.  I am still looking for someone to give the first example of hyphenated use in common, informed reporting of this sport.  Trackinfo (talk) 13:17, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

IAAF guidelines regarding roads
How long have the IAAF recommendations stated that "courses should minimize running on roads or other macadamised paths?" When I was in high school, several schools had courses on roads. Have the guidelines changed? If so, it might make an interesting addition to the history sections. Or, could it be the result of differences between rules/guidlines of different organizations (IAAF vs USATF, for example). SlowJog (talk) 17:39, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 October 2014
The length of a typical Junior High cross country course is 2.0 Another thing that could be added to this page is to delve into the types of foods runners should be consuming on a regular basis as well as before and after races. Serious and casual runners alike should be aware of the wear and tear they are subjecting themselves too, and should also be aware of what foods would best benefit them nutrition wise, as many calories are burned.

Theradgatsby (talk) 16:57, 6 October 2014 (UTC)


 * The protection template request makes no sense. While this page has occasional vandalism, it is not obnoxious compared to many pages I monitor.  Regarding content requests, Junior High School distances, even the existence of the sport in the Junior HIgh School level is inconsistent on a national or global basis.  There is no governing body setting policy though in the USA, NFHS seems to be making a turn in that direction.  USATF and AAU have their own age divisions that cover these ages and their rules use metric distances.  Regarding food and water, those are much more opinion based articles, coaching; which would require attribution instead of being put in wikipedia's voice as factual. Trackinfo (talk) 17:18, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

Unclear sentence
The article says, "Since 1928, cross country has been contested only as the fifth discipline of the modern pentathlon, and until 2016 it was the only discipline where the Olympic competition was only part of the modern pentathlon." The second part of the sentence is unclear to me. Isn't it repeating the same information of the first part, only adding a current date? (Which should be implied in "Since 1928 [until the current date".]) And saying "the only discipline where (it) was only part" is a clumsy structure, anyway. Kumagoro-42 02:33, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
 * The structure would only make sense if modern pentathlon had added another sport in 2016 that is not otherwise offered in the Olympics. Since that isn't the case I agree that this should be changed. I would just eliminate the entire second sentence and go with "Since 1928, cross country has been contested only as the fifth discipline of the modern pentathlon." Meters (talk) 02:45, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

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wording
"A course at least 5 metres (5.5 yd) full " -- i assume that "full" means wide. Is this a Britishism? Wouldn't 'wide' be better, since it is used in all English dialects.Kdammers (talk) 05:57, 2 April 2018 (UTC)

Length
I didn't see a reference for the claim that distances are usually ... . In American high schools, it used to be two miles, but this reference (http://www.tips4running.com/History-Of-Cross-Country.html) gives figures in supported of the lede's claim. Can we use this as a source? Kdammers (talk) 06:06, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
 * The source you mentioned does not specifically state that. This source does.  While one could interpret this source as being specific to a single state, it was actually a national decision by NFHS.  Here's a different state showing the same pattern of records. Trackinfo (talk) 07:05, 2 April 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 May 2018
Cross country

it is when children from different ages run across the country or at least 2-3km. My special skills in the running are pretty advanced and so are others tomorrow we will also have cross country so good luck — Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.253.67.136 (talk) 07:05, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

Course Requirements
In addition to the information provided for cross country courses, I am looking to include more details on how schools have to follow NCAA regulations in order to be eligible for teams to race there. Stanfojl (talk) 01:12, 25 October 2018 (UTC)

Reliable resources
Hello! I noticed that for the "race course" section there are only three references and very limited information. One of the references is also a dead link. What are good places to look for additional reliable information? (I assume personal experience is not a valid source of information.) Are there international standards for course design that are commonly followed by lower level (in the US, high and middle schools) of competitions? ElToAn123 (talk) 03:27, 20 January 2022 (UTC)


 * I'm considering replacing the 2011-2012 NCAA rules with the 2021-2022 ones, if there are any notable changes. The rise of digital timing systems may be one such change that needs to be added. ElToAn123 (talk) 14:12, 9 May 2022 (UTC)