Talk:Cubs Win Flag

Images
I would like to find images like those below, but I can only find http://www.flickr.com/photos/falsecognate/2439409291/ --TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 03:07, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) http://www.flickr.com/photos/trainboy03/2744578019/
 * 2) http://www.flickr.com/photos/trainboy03/2380124137/


 * That's another case of a fan snapping a photo just after the W flag was raised and before the other flags were lowered. The first pic we discussed on your talk page. The second pic is from August 5, 2006. It was a 3:05 start, and the game ran 2 hours and 43 minutes, so it would have ended about 5:48. The clock reads 5:55. We know from other photos that they can get all the flag stuff done in as little time as 11 minutes, but apparently not as short as 7 minutes. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 03:51, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


 * But the game wouldn't have actually started at 3:05. They get stuff done pretty darn fast up there.Petero9 (talk) 01:31, 29 September 2008 (UTC)


 * It could have started a few minutes after 3:05. I'm just saying that the earliest it could have ended, with that game time, was 5:48 - hence the weaselly, "would have ended about 5:48". :) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 03:44, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

About the flags in general, I have a postcard from the early 60s that shows 4 flags on the left and 4 on the right, representing the 8 NL clubs prior to the 1962 expansion. After that they went to 5 on the left and 5 on the right. The would have gone to 6 on each side when they split into divisions in 1969, and when the NL went to 3 divisions in 1994 they would have begun the 3 columns of flags. The open question is, when did they start using flags? That's unclear at present, but I think Bill Veeck was involved in the project, so it could have been as early as the bleacher expansion of 1937. More research needed. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 04:05, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Flags and lights
Notice the two lights on the top of the scoreboard in that one photo. The thing is, we only have photos of the W flag. They do lose occasionally. I wonder if anyone has a picture of the L flag - not only for illustrative purposes, but to see if they fly it on the other side of the scoreboard, i.e. whether it corresponds to the light below it. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 04:21, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, I answered my own question. I went to a game in 2007 in which the Cubs lost, and I happened to get a photo. It's not good enough to display here, but the L is definitely on the other side of the masthead - thus, it's visually connected with the light below it. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 04:23, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Specifically, the blue-on-white "W" flag flies over the blue light, and the white-on-blue "L" flag flies over the white light. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 04:27, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

The masthead itself and the team flags were in place as early as 1938, as per photos in William Hartel's A Day at the Park. The 1938 labeling appears to be correct, as the ivy has just barely started to climb the wall. Even by the the 1938 World Series (as per films I've seen) the ivy was only partway up the walls. That was also before the scoreboard clock was added. The Chinese elms on the "stairsteps" behind the bleachers, as well as the trees in the "wells", are also visible. So the masthead was in place by 1938, and I'm pretty sure flying the flag started then also, as Bill Veeck had an amusing anecdote about it in his autobiography, Veeck as in Wreck. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 05:31, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Timing
If the win/loss flags go up after the game and the pennants are up before the game what time of day do the team pennants replace the previous day's game's win/loss indicator flag.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 20:21, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
 * That's a good one. I don't know precisely. You'd probably have to call the Cubs office to find out. All I know is that by the time the gates open, the U.S. flag and the standings flags are all in place from the previous day's NL activities, and the W/L flag is stashed away. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 20:56, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
 * In fact, U.S. flag protocol calls for the flag to be raised at sunrise. So I would guess that's when they do it, or whenever the work crew arrives, whichever comes later. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 20:58, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The book A Day at the Park has an early-morning photo that shows the scoreboard, and there are no flags at all flying there. So either the photographer caught it "in between", or they take down the "W" flag once it gets dark. Hence the blue and white lights - which, according to the book, also began to be used in 1938. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 21:07, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Do they raise the win flag for night games?--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 00:30, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure they do. Of course, it would be illuminated by the ballpark lights at that point. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 01:09, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Road trip
At the end of a homestand, does the win/loss flag continue to fly until the road trip is over?--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 14:05, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
 * OK, I talked to a very patient guy at Cubs media relations at Wrigley Field. He said the W/L flags are only displayed for home games (except for that 10,000th win situation) and that he's not sure precisely when the flag is taken down, but it's sometime overnight, as it's always gone by the time he gets to work at 8:30 or so in the morning. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 18:33, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Original colors of lights
It's true that Veeck said the lights were green and red. It's also true that Veeck was known to embellish or fill in the blanks or even make stuff up from time to time. One of his major stories had to do with his plan to buy the Phillies and populate them with black players, a couple of years before Jackie Robinson and Branch Rickey broke the color line. Modern research indicates that he may have seriously exaggerated or even made up that story. Also, research indicates that the story of his days with the minor league Milwaukee Brewers, in which he claimed to have installed a rolling home run screen, may have been exaggerated or invented. And there was his continual insistance that no one knew how old Satchel Paige was, long after Paige acknowledged his real age in his own autobiography. That's not to say Veeck didn't do a lot of the stuff he talked about in the book, just maybe not all of it. He was certainly an innovator, and hired the first black player in the American League, Larry Doby. But that's the risk in relying too much on autobiographies for information. And it's possible he remembered the colors of the lights incorrectly. Hartell's book on Wrigley Field acknowledges the Veeck statement but says that contemporary newspapers reported the lights were blue and white - just like today. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 01:17, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

"L" flag
Not something we Cubs fans like to see, but it seemed fair to include an example of it, since it's discussed in the article. I'll let the layout gurus decide on possibly better placement. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 06:08, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

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External links modified
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I have just added archive links to 3 one external links on Cubs Win Flag. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
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 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20110711160409/http://www.heartlandflagpoles.com/Sports-Flags/Chicago-Cubs/Grommets-MLB-Chicago-Cubs-Win-W-Flag-3x5;jsessionid=0a01034d1f430af7d02995c9456fab92a9481e259fe0.e3eSbNmTb3mTe34Pa38Ta38Nchb0 to http://www.heartlandflagpoles.com/Sports-Flags/Chicago-Cubs/Grommets-MLB-Chicago-Cubs-Win-W-Flag-3x5;jsessionid=0a01034d1f430af7d02995c9456fab92a9481e259fe0.e3eSbNmTb3mTe34Pa38Ta38Nchb0
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20110711160525/http://www.heartlandflagpoles.com/Sports-Flags/Chicago-Cubs/Banner-Flag-MLB-Chicago-Cubs-Win-W-Banner-27x37;jsessionid=0a01034d1f430af7d02995c9456fab92a9481e259fe0.e3eSbNmTb3mTe34Pa38Ta38Nchb0 to http://www.heartlandflagpoles.com/Sports-Flags/Chicago-Cubs/Banner-Flag-MLB-Chicago-Cubs-Win-W-Banner-27x37;jsessionid=0a01034d1f430af7d02995c9456fab92a9481e259fe0.e3eSbNmTb3mTe34Pa38Ta38Nchb0

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