Talk:Czech Republic/Archive 13

What arguments for keeping Czech Republic as the name - still stands strong today?
More and more, the country is referred to as Czechia. I myself was a part of the RM discussion, which rejected the move. I am interested in whether we could have some comments surrounding the page name arguing for why it should be not be changed. If not, I think it's in it's place to once again reconsider the page name.

Bests, thomediter Thomediter (talk) 16:43, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Please see the above discussion,, and all the previous discussions in this talk page's archives before suggesting a move, and, if you do suggest a move, have evidence that the situation has evolved since this was last discussed here only 8 months ago. Please do not antagonize everyone with this article on their watchlist by rehashing old arguments without consideration as to whether there are new developments that would warrant a different outcome. Largoplazo (talk) 16:52, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Fwiw, Google trends hasn't changed much since last discussion. Consider checking and considering again 6-12 months after the 2024 Summer Olympics, since the last Eurovision obviously didn't do the trick . Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:27, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
 * And the Czechia still lives! Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:35, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Gråbergs Gråa Sång It has died today. Today I wrote there, today they solved it. Often, it is better to try to correct mistakes and alert the person making them rather than mocking them. But it was still just a false problem, why not allow Czechia on Wikipedia because someone random used it with "the", another false problem will appear right away >:| Chrz (talk) 15:05, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Still funny that it was the about-page of that org. Oh well, there's always memorials like . Fwiw, I don't consider me mentioning a typo at their website "mocking" the Czech Olympic Committee. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:59, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Consider writing the EU next, there are 4 "the Czechia" at . Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:12, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Change "Czech Republic" to "Czechia". And they did. The word "The" is not used on signs and plates even for countries with "the," right?! I don't know what's so special about "that" org. It's as if this one subpage is supposed to be more important only when it's wrong. Now that it's right, it's OBVIOUSLY insignificant and secondary >:/ I also wrote to the EU, now we'll see the differences in communication with institutions. Although again, if (when) the EU page gets it right, it will miraculously become insignificant. Chrz (talk) 20:34, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I agree a lot with what Chrz is saying Thomediter (talk) 21:47, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I am not trying to restart RM, I just wish the practice would end where insignificant obstacles are put in the way, meaning sources that have a miraculous power "against" but then have no weight "for". Either they are important for any party in the dispute or they are not important at all and it's not worth discussing them here. Chrz (talk) 22:31, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Eventually, the page will be re-named Czechia. Remember it took quite a few RMs (and years) to finally get Burma re-named Myanmar. GoodDay (talk) 20:36, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Racism. I'm completely serious. There are no reasons to deliberately use an old and rejected name now that the proper name is widely used and accepted everywhere. Except if you have a sense of superiority over the people of Czechia.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.18.223.41 (talk) 22:20, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Then you're completely serious about something ridiculous. To the best of my knowledge, Czechs are white. Charges of racism usually arise in situations involving white people actually or reportedly discriminating against non-white people. If that's not the case here, which race of Wikipedia editors do you think are discriminating against them?
 * Where did you get the idea that "Czech Republic" has been rejected? It remains the country's official long-form name! The only change is that they adopted an official short-form name as well.
 * I'm looking at the web page of the Czech Convention Bureau. They refer to the country as "Czech Republic". Are they self-racist?
 * When you say "There are no reasons", the reasons have already been explained at nauseating length in previous discussions on this matter. They don't disappear just because one person declares them not to exist.
 * None of the points you've made here have any connection to reality. Largoplazo (talk) 22:49, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
 * That's an official page of the country's state tourism agency, and it uses the term "Czech Republic" all over. — kashmīrī  TALK  06:09, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Throwing around words like "racism" is not the way to make friends and influence people on Wikipedia. This discussion has gone on for a very long while, and it's not going to go away soon, and sometimes it is annoying, but at least we can say that the main contributors on both sides are acting in good faith and with mutual respect. We will change the name when a majority of voices on this page are convinced by the facts. Doric Loon (talk) 01:13, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 December 2023
Change Central Europe to Eastern Europe 89.24.32.30 (talk) 17:57, 28 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Assuming you mean as in "Czech Republic is in Central Europe." According Central Europe, that seems good enough, though like with "how many continents are there?", there are other definitions. Why would it be better for this WP-article to change like you suggest? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:17, 28 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Calling Czechoslovakia "Eastern European" was cold war thinking, when the iron curtain traced a simplistic political divide between east and west. But both before and since the Warsaw Pact era, the West Slavic peoples have thought of themselves as Central European. Because Europe goes much further East than you maybe think it does. Doric Loon (talk) 14:10, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
 * It depends on 1) whether Russia (in whole or in part) is accounted for in the various _____ Europe regions, 2) how many such regions you are using, 3) which regions they are, and 4) where you draw the lines. I can conceive of definitions for the Czech Republic to be in eastern, central, or western Europe.--User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 22:09, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Both Russia and Czech are Eastern European. Undashing (talk) 03:53, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
 * You're missing the point. These named regions do not necessarily correspond to literal geographic chunks of particular continents. I have seen geography text books that separate Russia into its own section and then divide the remainder of Europe into various regions. In these systems, the Eastern European region DOES NOT include Russia. Even though, technically, Russia IS (partially) in the eastern portion of the generally accepted continent of Europe. User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 05:34, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Partially my ass. Russia is the largest country in Europe.
 * And Ethnic Russians are Slavs, native to Europe. Undashing (talk) 06:18, 19 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Um... only part of Russia is in Europe. Thus it is PARTIALLY in Europe. I don't know how you misinterpreted what I said or why it seems to make you so mad. User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 14:49, 19 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Fun fact: Prague is further west than some parts of Germany, Austria, Italy and Sweden. It is two degrees west of Vienna, and four west of Stockholm. Moscow, on the other hand, is a full 23 degrees east of Prague, while Kyiv and Minsk are 16 and 13 respectively. The distance from Prague to Moscow is almost twice the distance from Prague to Paris or London.
 * So, while everyone is entitled to their own analysis, the idea that Czechia is central European is certainly a plausible one.
 * Can we just agree that these terms have various definitions that may all be legitimate, and our articles on Central Europe and Eastern Europe are the place to discuss them? Doric Loon (talk) 08:56, 19 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Russia is the largest country in Europe, yet, neverthless, Russia is only partly in Europe. Surely you don't think Vladivostok is in Europe! And where Slavs originate is irrelevant, just as the majority European heritage of today's populations of Australia and the United States doesn't put those countries in Europe. Largoplazo (talk) 16:49, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

Expanding the infobox with additional data
Can I have another opinion regarding the current expansion of the infobox with additional historical data? In my opinion, for the need of the infobox, this item should be brief and really only contain Establishment data, not turning point battles etc. FromCzech (talk) 05:31, 10 April 2024 (UTC)


 * I'd tend to agree, although it seems the infoboxes of other countries are also getting bloated with those additional historical events. In any case, I have reverted the changes back to the status quo until there is a consensus of what to include there. Vpab15 (talk) 10:22, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Pinging @FeldmarschallGneisenau, who introduced the changes. Vpab15 (talk) 10:24, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
 * White Mountain wasn't just "a turning point battle." It pretty much obliterated the very existence of the Czech language until the 19th century, when it was artificially revived by German-speaking people with German names and/or surnames. Everything else I explained briefly in the edit reason. Establishment of Habsburg rule over Bohemia in 1526 is an Establishment event. By the way, dis-establishment events are marked in other articles also, such as the Partitions of Poland. FeldmarschallGneisenau (talk) 21:37, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
 * The Czech language was never "obliterated" and/or "artificially revived". Not after the White Mountain, not ever. Where is this nonsense coming from? Czech-speakers have always formed at least 2/3 majority of the population of Czechia until the end of WWII. Habsburgs were just another dynasty on the Czech throne. Qertis (talk) 14:18, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Czech-speakers were driven out into the countryside, and then German settlement began in the countryside also. Czech was dying out by the 19th century and was revived. Dictionaries were published and words entirely made up to counter German dominance. Hence why Czech has uniquely many archaic words, phrases or, e.g. chemical or engineering terms which are completely Slavic, because there was an effort to retrace, recreate (and in some cases completely create anew) a pure Czech Slavic language. Charles University opened a Czech section only in the 2nd half of the 19th century FeldmarschallGneisenau (talk) 23:28, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Noone was driven into the countryside; there was a significant emigration, but it was both Czech- and German-speaking. Czech was not dying out and/or revived. You are severely overestimating the impact purists had on the language. 17th or 18th century Czech is almost indistinguishable from the modern language. Sure, there are new words and words no longer used, but that applies to any language. There are several hundred words intentionally borrowed from other Slavic languages or recreated from older Czech words but they form only a tiny fraction of the Czech vocabulary. And mind you, this was not a Czech-specific thing. Replacing foreign words with domestic (or domestic-sounding) ones was very popular at that time throughout Europe. Qertis (talk) 07:21, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
 * It's just the fact that the purists had German names and German was their first language... FeldmarschallGneisenau (talk) 08:06, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
 * The fewer the events, the clearer the purpose. The infobox was really designed to have one date, independence (date of sovereignty), although that clearly breaks down in some situations. CMD (talk) 01:28, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
 * According to who? FeldmarschallGneisenau (talk) 01:50, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
 * MOS:INFOBOXPURPOSE, When considering any aspect of infobox design, keep in mind the purpose of an infobox: to summarize (and not supplant) key facts that appear in the article. (That is, an article should remain complete with its summary infobox ignored, with exceptions noted below.) The less information it contains, the more effectively it serves that purpose, allowing readers to identify key facts at a glance. Of necessity, some infoboxes contain more than just a few fields; however, wherever possible, present information in short form, and exclude any unnecessary content.  (talk | contribs) 01:52, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
 * You are free to check out how it looks in the infoboxes of the United States, France, Russia, Poland, Romania and basically any other. That was the intention behind my edits, to bring the Czechia page closer to what every other country page looks like. Currently it looks like the infobox is deliberately omitting key events from Czech history.FeldmarschallGneisenau (talk) 02:03, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
 * The articles you linked all contain infoboxes with establishment history and changes in the country's rule. None of them contain battles, even if it was a "turning point".  (talk | contribs) 02:05, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Serbia does, just phrased differently. Just look around. Anyhow, I hope there's no debate about including the establishment of the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia and the subsequent establishment of the Czechoslovak Socialist Republic in the infobox. I don't understand why the infobox is so poor right now.FeldmarschallGneisenau (talk) 02:26, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
 * I don't see any battles in Serbia's infobox. However, the inclusion of the Protectorate can be discussed with other editors.  (talk | contribs) 02:29, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Fine. And the inclusion of the Czechoslovak Socialist Republic too. I concede your point on not featuring the Battle in the infobox. However I still think the Hussite Wars and Habsburg suzerainty should be included.FeldmarschallGneisenau (talk) 02:56, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Info box not the place for military accomplishments Moxy 🍁 03:08, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
 * It's not a military accomplishment. The Hussite Wars started in reaction to increasing German-language domination over Czech lands and resulted in an outburst and flourishing of Czech national culture, albeit as a sort of swan song when Czech culture began being curbed after the fall of the Hussite period, establishment of Habsburg suzerainty and then after the Battle of the White Mountain when Czech culture started to be actively suppressed and the lands re-Catholicized and Germanized. Similar events interwoven with military engagements are described in the infoboxes of Serbia etc.FeldmarschallGneisenau (talk) 03:26, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Because of this the country was formed? Moxy 🍁 03:32, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
 * There is no such very strict criteria, it's just a list of key events in the history of a country. See: infoboxes on any other country pages.FeldmarschallGneisenau (talk) 03:36, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
 * The fields in question are to support the |sovereignty_type = field, they are not for listing all historical events. CMD (talk) 03:43, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm far from listing all historical events Czechia was involved in. At the very least however, establishment of the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia, as well as the Czechoslovak Socialist Republic and Habsburg overlordship, should be highlighted.FeldmarschallGneisenau (talk) 04:02, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

Infobox establishment events - the Protectorate and the CSSR
For there to truly be no consensus against including the states of the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia and the Czechoslovak Socialist Republic in the history of established states on Czech soil, there must be good arguments against including these omitted events from the current page's infobox. I think the case for including these is self-evident, so I wonder who can be against and why. If, apparently, it turns out everyone is for it, it means there is consensus and this urgent change will be re-applied swiftly. Please state your case. FeldmarschallGneisenau (talk) 21:58, 28 April 2024 (UTC)


 * I'm not seeing how satellite States are related to the formation of the current country? Moxy 🍁 22:13, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
 * It's not a "sovereign established states" list though. Just what states were established on Czech territory since what date. The Czech Republic is a direct continuator and successor of the Czechoslovak Socialist Republic, of the Czech portion specifically.FeldmarschallGneisenau (talk) 23:12, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Exactly, how they are related? What I wrote at the beginning of the first discussion about expanding the infobox applies. Even you did not consider these events important during the first batch of your attempts to expand the infobox. FromCzech (talk) 04:22, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm not Czech. It's not my job to be cognizant of every important fact about this country immediately. But I remembered these 2 important events anyhow.FeldmarschallGneisenau (talk) 23:12, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Anyone? No arguments? FeldmarschallGneisenau (talk) 22:55, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
 * How is being a puppet of Nazi Germany an important step in developing sovereignty? It seems rather the reverse.--User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 23:17, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
 * It's not a sovereignty list, only establishment list. List of established states on Czech soil. FeldmarschallGneisenau (talk) 04:28, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
 * It is a sovereignty list, it's specifically a list of events that established sovereignty. CMD (talk) 05:08, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Are we really just spouting our opinions as facts set in stone now? Let's be serious. A cursory look over other country pages show that within the Czech page, some major whitewashing of history is brewing. The Czechs got divvied up by Western Europe in 1938. And became the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia in 1939 and supplied Adolf's army until 1945 and was the last stand of the German army. Then the Czechoslovak Socialist Republic was established. The current Czech Republic is a direct legal successor of the Czechoslovak Socialist Republic, specifically its Czech part. Direct continuation, same state really, only with a name change. FeldmarschallGneisenau (talk) 14:29, 3 May 2024 (UTC)