Talk:Düsseldorf/Archive 1

Misc
I have some problems with the problems other users seem to have with this entry. Almost every sentence got a "citation needed" mark. I looked up other city entries like Munich and Berlin, and there seem to be much more trust in facts and figures. How come? E.g, there is a "citation needed" at the number of marketing companies, or how many trains are leaving Düsseldorf per day (who cares anyway). If all citations would be added, the list of footnotes would be longer than the whole article. (Heiko)


 * I'll look at the other cities and see if information needs verified. Citations are necessary as Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia, all information needs to be verified, you can't use length of footnotes as an excuse not to add citations. See WP:verify Michellecrisp 08:03, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Is there some reason this whole page has to be HTML table hell? Any objection if I trim it down to something ordinary humans might be able to edit? --LDC

Parts of this article seem to be lifted straight from http://www.filtecheuropa.com/venue_03_e.htm. Possible copyright violation? Does anyone object if the apparently copied material is removed? --Brion VIBBER

I'm not quite sure if the wrong spelling "Duesseldorf" should be maintained. Does anyone object if I replace everything with "Düsseldorf" and move this page over? Timwi 18:57 11 Jun 2003 (UTC)
 * ... Done -- Timwi 14:07 13 Jun 2003 (UTC)


 * It was not "wrong" spelling, it was just the standard-ASCII way to write the umlaut. Apparently it once had the policy not to use the umlauts in the article names, mostly because of problems with the searching function. However these seem to be solved, and thus this policy is probably obsolete. See also Wikipedia talk:WikiProject German districts, there we had the same discussion just recently. andy 14:18 13 Jun 2003 (UTC)


 * I've seen the discussion (thank you for the pointer), and it seems other pages have been moved to the title containing the umlauted letter, so I'll assume it's okay I continue the practice of moving misspelt city or district names over to the correct spelling.


 * P.S. Yes, it is wrong spelling (ask any spell checker of your choice) and only an informally accepted practice due to the technological limitations that Latin-1, and more recently Unicode, have overcome. It therefore has no place in an encyclopedia. It's similar to the situation in HTML: Certain HTML tags are popular simply because Internet Explorer understands them, but that doesn't make them valid HTML (the best example probably being &lt;marquee&gt;). (Wow, I've never thought of this comparison before. I think I like it.) -- Timwi 17:48 13 Jun 2003 (UTC)

F. Moritz and 212.202.14.115, please stop deleting useful links. If you do not find them useful, simply do not click on them. They do not do any harm. Also, instead of deleting, it is better to improve the link, if needed, or improve the linked article - Patrick 08:30 20 Jun 2003 (UTC)

That is a case in point: "Clara and Robert Schumann as well as Felix Mendelssohn-Bartoldy consolidate Dusseldorf...". The shortcuts are okay, Robert Schumann and Felix Mendelssohn-Bartoldy are part of the article.

Exemple for wrong shortcuts: "one of the biggest German stock exchanges is located here" or "The German Opera House". The visitor knows what an opera is. But he expects local links to the opera Düsseldorf, not to the general description.

Next Link: "Taking a Deutsche Bahn train is a relaxing...". What does "train" have to do with the ->DÜSSELDORF<- article???? Excuse me, this is nonsense and I cannot tolerate it in my article. (Felix 22 Jun 2003)


 * You may recall the statement which you implicitly agreed to by submitting your edits to this article:


 * Please note that all contributions to Wikipedia are considered to be released under the GNU Free Documentation License (see Copyrights for details). If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly and redistributed at will, then don't submit it here.


 * Please remember that this is not "your" article. It belongs to everyone. If you do not agree with the changes that others have made to the article, please bring it up in discussion on this talk page. It seems that many other editors find that these links are helpful, and in the spirit of Wiki. We cannot necessarily assume that the reader knows about all of these linked subjects. They may be interested in finding out about the telecommunications companies Ericsson or Nokia, or about other things that were happening in 1892, or more about the S-Bahn. The links help them to do so. -- Wapcaplet 13:43 22 Jun 2003 (UTC)


 * I agree to your examples, Wapcaplet, but linking to train is really rather silly and in fact distracting (it makes the reader think "huh? train?" and then wonder if there might be something in the train article that is relevant to Düsseldorf). Same for Opera.  As for stock exchange, that is more like a borderline case, so I would probably rather leave it in. -- Timwi 16:24 22 Jun 2003 (UTC)


 * Most of those I linked in a hurry, and only because they were linked in the original linked versions. I agree that they could use some culling, but linking practically nothing at all is very un-Wikipedia-like. When in doubt, it seems better to me to link more, rather than less. As long as it doesn't get distracting. -- Wapcaplet 18:06 22 Jun 2003 (UTC)


 * I do not think there is anything wrong linking train, opera and stock exchange. If someone argues that he/she does not find it worth the effort to put these links I respect that, it is not compulsory to put them. However, deleting them is an entirely different matter. I think it is silly to get confused by a link to train. It is very simple and clear: that is an article about trains in general, not specially those in Düsseldorf. Now that trains are mentioned somebody may decide that he/she wants to read about those in general. - Patrick 22:52 22 Jun 2003 (UTC)

OK, good solution, thx for your understanding. (Felix 22 Jun 2003)
 * Pssst: http://www.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Special:Userlogin :-)  -- Timwi 21:53 22 Jun 2003 (UTC)

This article reads like a tourist brochure rather than an encylopedia article. G-Man 23:06, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I think it is a tourist brochure...how to deal with it, though? john k 00:52, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Population is OK!
Please don't change the population or the keyfacts! Thx

Yapp, population is ok, check www.lds.nrw.de -> Statistik -> Amtliche Bevölkerungszahlen -> Regierungsbezirk Düsseldorf.

Removed 2nd para
I removed the 2nd para, which has already been discussed. It read like a tourist promotional statement perhaps because it was one - it is the same as text at: http://www.germany-tourism.de/e/dest_cities_duesseldorf_e.html

I have no objection to a para saying some clear things about what the city is like but this was in ridiculous TIC-speak. It was a bit lazy of someone to paste it straight in, if they did, and if they did have permission (or, Heaven forfend, if the wiki article is the original and the other site copied it!) it was a bit lazy of them not to explain this when it was queried. Even if it was original, it's not really the right feel for an encyclopedia. It could only really be used by saying something like "Düsseldorf would like to be seen as ..." or something, but it should not appear to be a statement from the wiki itself. 138.37.199.146 07:50, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Telecommunicatons Center
Although there may be more ISPs than in many other cities, Duesseldorf is far away from being the "top" telecommuntions center of Germany. The most important city for Telcos/ISPs is still Frankfurt. So I replaced 'top' with 'a'. If this sounds not good, feel free to edit it. --217.249.41.171 10:21, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

Fankfurt may be Germany's main ISP location; however Düsseldorf is indeed Germany's leading center in mobile telecommunication. So this claim is correct. Vodafone bought D2 mannesmann in 2000; this being the largest takeover at that time. Mannesmann was an old company famous for it's invention and production of seemless steel pipes which moved business to mobile telecom durin the ninetees, becoming Germany's second larget telecom company. Germany really has a "tradition" regarding telecom...

Habermas ?
Would it not be a good idea to include also Jürgen Habermas as a very well-known person linked to Düsseldorf, (even or because) if Mittelstraß is already included ?

Yes, it would. I did it.

Düsseldorf vs. Duesseldorf
71.101.16.232 16:21, 17 May 2006 (UTC) By the way, under the Rechtschreibreform (Spelling Reform Act) of 1996, (wiki here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_spelling_reform_of_1996), "Duesseldorf" is a correct and legal spelling. I fully acknowledge the struggle and lack of popular support for it, but it *is* an acceptable spelling. (This is NOT, by the way, to be in anyway interpreted or mistaken as an opinion as to which one is truly correct -- only an observation that according to the government, 'Duesseldorf' is the correct spelling.)
 * Well, the last time I was in Düsseldorf, about 3 weeks ago, all road signs showed me the spelling Düsseldorf. and on the official site, which is in fact http://www.duesseldorf.de, the spelling is Düsseldorf. And if you search a bit further, the bylaw of city proclaims the official name to be Düsseldorf. The spelling with ue instead of ü is an official German solution to support typewriters which do not support umlauts. Today, this solution is obsolete in German speaking countries for each typewriter or computer has umlaut keys, it is just interesting for non German people who lack umlaut keys on their keyboards. But just because this procedure is accepted in exceptional cases, this is not an alternate spelling. 80.136.223.174 14:44, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

I am very concerned about the above comment, since in the reform mention by User:71.101.16.232 (1) Place names and family names were excluded from the reform; and (2) the reform did not eliminate umlauted vowels. Bejnar 15:37, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Nonetheless, "Dusseldorf" is the normal spelling in English, and should be the name of the article on wikipedia, see WP:UE. Arker 01:39, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Note that "Dussel" (without the umlaut) means "dumb person" in german. Calling the city "Dusseldorf" sounds like "dumb people's town" which might seem a bit insulting... 84.59.120.86 (talk) 00:41, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Request
Hi All, I am from India and I am shortly visiting Dusseldorf, I need some information regarding the same. A word of help would be a kind and great gesture. 1. What is the approx daily expenditure on food (economy) 2. Can I get paying guest accomodation 3. Can I get an electronic shop where I can purchase converter for my DELL laptop. I have plugs in my laptop which will not work there. Please let me know the area where these kind of shops exist, and if you have the phone numbers. Regards, Lokesh

The "rivalry" between Düsseldorf and Köln
Born in Düsseldorf. Studied at University of Cologne. Point of view. Köln negates Düsseldorf actively as it looks down upon it as one of the "Dörfer" in its vicinity. Köln has only minor street named after Düsseldorf. Düsseldorf gives large spaces to allow Rhine flooding.

Districts
I am adding back in the administrative breakdown of the city. I feel that it is important to link to the Districts, and the List of Boroughs. But putting in both the Düsseldorf Urban Districts template and the Rhineland-Westphalia template was obviously a bit much. Bejnar 15:37, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Demographics
I created a new demographics section, using material I found in the history section - this is a standard section in larger city articles. I don't know Düsseldorf, so I can't add more info, but perhaps someone here could expand this along the lines of Berlin. Thanks! Walkerma 05:07, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Sounds a little bit like a tourist brochure in places
"The 'Kö', which stands for Königsallee (King's Avenue) is the street to go shopping in Düsseldorf. Some of the most reputed jewellery shops, designer labels and galleries have their stores here, such as Cartier, Aigner, Lacoste, Eickhoff, Jil Sander, Benetton, Gucci, Esprit, Laurel, Armani, Chanel, Escada, Hugo Boss, Joop, Kookaï, Prada and many more."

This kind of stuff sounds a little bit too much like a tourist brochure or the predictable blart every chamber of commerce turns out from Baltimore to Ulan Baataar. "The street to go shopping"? Who is this article supposed to be addressing? Personally I want to find out about what places are really like and I consider designer labels offensive and to be avoided. The economy sounds all great and rosy and lovely and full of banks—Kraftwerk wrote a song about that—but what is the cost? Is decent housing affordable for everybody? Have small businesses been driven to the wall by all the big companies? Maybe not, but the economic picture in the article so obviously ignores the dark side that I can't help wondering. I'm not saying you need to trash the place. Just make it a bit more believable. Ireneshusband 05:34, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

The Kö is really famous as a shopping mile in Germany. I think an article about New York nit mentioning 42nd St, Times Square or Broadway would be incomplete as well. Who would argue that Times Square is one of the most busiest place sin the world, or that the Broadway is the place to go to a show. BTW, Kraftwerk mentioned Düsseldorf in only one of their songs ("Trans-Europe-Express"). (Heiko)

Fictional Person in the famous people list
Kenzo_Tenma is a fictional Character and should not be mixed in the middle of real characters in that list. I'd say delete it, but maybe others would like a seperate heading "fictional" or so. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.236.55.223 (talk) 00:01, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Große Düsseldorfer Kirmes
I see this has been Wikified yet there is no page on the fair. I don't know much about the fair and can only find German sources, which I can't read well enough to use. Can someone make a page, even a stub, on the Große Düsseldorfer Kirmes, it seems noteworthy. If required, I will gladly do a proof on the new article if you leave a note on my talk page. Danken! RomaC (talk) 15:19, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Dead link
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 * http://www.bezreg-duesseldorf.nrw.de/BezRegDdorf/autorenbereich/Dezernat_53/BarbaraAlnoch_Buber/Luftreinhalteplan_D__sseldorf__S__dliche_Innenstadt.pdf (archive)
 * In Düsseldorf on 2008-01-11 17:42:11, 404 Not Found
 * In Düsseldorf on 2008-01-22 22:48:44, 404 Not Found

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Dead link
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 * http://comfort-gmbh.de/pressemitteilungen/21.03.2007.pdf
 * In Düsseldorf on 2008-01-11 17:42:12, 404 Not Found
 * In Düsseldorf on 2008-01-22 22:49:14, 404 Not Found

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 * http://www.german-embassy.org.uk/Carnival_dusseldorf.html (archive)
 * In Düsseldorf on 2008-01-11 17:42:20, 404 Not Found
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Use of the ü
Hi there, folk. I'm currently in a discussion in another section of Wikipedia, about diacritics. It would seem to me that Dusseldorf would be a more common English version of the name of this town. However, I'm not going to mess with this, without some sort of understanding of what's gone before. So, can someone tell me why the umlaut is being left, while very few, if any English speakers would use it? AshleyMorton (talk) 02:25, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, Dusseldorf ist not really an English alternative to Düsseldorf (unlike Munich / München). There is no English name for this place. Dusseldorf ist only used when there is no ü available. --93.130.222.112 (talk) 09:43, 10 December 2009 (UTC)


 * But I have never seen a keyboard in England with a ü! I don't know whether a move is nessesary but I agree in the sense that Dusseldorf will be more common English, albeit not an actual English word. This is rather more a discussion than an actual request. In reality a section in the article was be written about this. Bezuidenhout (talk) 19:39, 12 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Mmh, with openoffice or words it's not problem to write an ü. Most commentators here did it as well, so why should it be a problem for wikipedia? http://www.eurovision.tv/page/news?id=20453&_t=And+the+winner+is...+D%C3%BCsseldorf! And if you had German at school you just don't know how to pronounce the name of the city correctly without the dots. --93.130.149.140 (talk) 16:23, 13 October 2010 (UTC)


 * I write Dusseldorf sans ü and I speak German. I think that is how I learnt it in the 1960s because atlases wrote it that way.
 * Rhine, Cologne, Coblenz, Nuremberg, Munich, Frankfort, Westphalia, Pomerania, Thuringia, Hanover, Strasbourg, Zurich, Vienna, Lucerne, Tyrol, Geneva, Danube, Hamelin. Aix-la-Chapelle.
 * Was Mayence used in English or just in French? I think we used it too.
 * So since when do we spell like Germans or Austrians or Swiss or Elsasser, eh?
 * We don't need to conform to some standard made in Germany. We speak a different Germanic tongue.
 * Varlaam (talk) 20:43, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
 * When I am speaking in German, I pronounce the ü's in Düsseldorf and München as ü's.
 * That sound is common in French, and many other languages. It's like guid in Scots.
 * When speaking in English, I say Doosseldorf. No ü.
 * Varlaam (talk)

multicultural city
"Düsseldorf is increasingly becoming a multicultural city. In 2007, 40% of Düsseldorf's residents, and 65% of those below the age of five were of immigrant background." - i have moved this sentence into the demographics sections a few days ago. i think it is not noteworthy enough for the lead section as it is both a common development and not any more notable than it may be for other large cities. Please discuss if you have a different opinion. ZH2010 (talk) 19:04, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree with you on both counts.
 * Plus, I don't feel it is lead section material unless there is some sort of genuine impact. Do I need to learn Urdu before I can visit the city? Is it impossible to eat wurst there?
 * Varlaam (talk) 21:20, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Trade fairs, and the importance of Düsseldorf
In the first section of the entry on Düsseldorf there is a statement "Messe Düsseldorf organizes nearly one fifth of all world‘s premier trade shows", with an annual report by Messe Düsseldorf cited as the source. I suspect this is 'marketing speak', not an actual fact - first of all, what precisely does "premier" mean? In any case, although I don't have the statistics to hand I find it hard to believe that even Germany as a whole organises a fifth of the world's "premier trade shows" (after all, Germany's economy is less than 4% of the world total, so a fifth would be disproportionately large). Moreover, even if Germany as a whole did account for a fifth, within Germany there are three Messe (Hannover, Köln, Frankfurt) which are arguably bigger than Düsseldorf, and quite a few others besides, so Düsseldorf's share of the German total cannot be more than a fifth at the very most, and therefore no more than a few per cent of the world total. So purely by means of 'armchair logic', it is virtually impossible for this claim to be true.


 * It does sound like marketing, but one has to say that in Germany trade fairs have a long history and are sort of a domain of its economy. Sort of comparable with investment banking in Britain. Naturally, national stakes in the global economy cannot always be translated 1:1 into every business sector. Also, from within Germany - while Hanover does have the largest square footage, it is at the same time less busy compared to Cologne or Düsseldorf. And last but not least: often times when reading about Düsseldorf (especially if the author is from Düsseldorf), it includes anything within the city's very own metro region (i.e. Rhine-Ruhr) - so in this case the trade fairs and congress centres in Cologne, Dortmund and Essen included. --88.77.147.46 (talk) 05:09, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Kraftwerk
Kraftwerk's influence on modern electronic music is immense, but it is incorrect to use the term "early" here. Please check the article electronic music which will show that, by the mid-twentieth century, electronic music was already a well developed art form --TS 08:21, 11 June 2012 (UTC).
 * Thanks for the edits. I think they're the bees' knees! --TS 23:31, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

History
The history from the 7th century until 1288 is completely uncited! --greip (talk) 13:34, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

photography
Sorry, but i count 6 photos with rhine tower. I find, thats too many. --Solches (talk) 15:11, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Timeline of Düsseldorf
What is missing from the recently created city timeline article? Please add relevant content. Contributions welcome. Thank you. -- M2545 (talk) 16:27, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Economy
The chapter "economy" could need a section on the (former) steel industry, also because it has left important traces in the architecture of the inner city. --Alazon (talk) 10:12, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

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Taxi
The chapter "Taxi" is clearly overblown for "covert" advertising purposes. The photo of the cab is absurd because cabs look like this in most of Germany. Has nothing to do with Düsseldorf whatsoever. I am now going to shorten that paragraph and refer to this remak in "Talk" in the edit notes. I will make the article on cabs similar to that of Wikipeida articles on other German cities. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.187.111.127 (talk) 23:15, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
 * +1 --Kgfleischmann (talk) 04:29, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

Headquarters to five Fortune Global 500 companies?
The claim doesn't cite a source or mention a year, but the latest report (2015, http://fortune.com/global500/ ) only lists two (e.on and Metro). But maybe I'm missing companies in the metropolitan area or something. Xjcl (talk) 21:26, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

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External links modified
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I have just modified 2 external links on Düsseldorf. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.ltu.de/kontakt/i_kontakt.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070429113232/http://www.brauer-bund.de/bierfans/sorten/alt.htm to http://www.brauer-bund.de/bierfans/sorten/alt.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 18:41, 14 September 2017 (UTC)