Talk:Dabke

Untitled
'''Comments, Playground, Ammendments..... reading all this I can only shake my head: People please grow up and just discribe the dance! --Reyhan (talk) 10:36, 12 September 2012 (UTC)'''

George Farmer
Has anyone heard his song "Vipir"? He based it on the debka. Go to george farmer to hear his work. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.76.13.166 (talk) 01:14, 16 February 2008 (UTC) There are many other songs that are dedicated to the dabke dance. Many famous singers make songs that are for the purpose of dancing the "dabke".

Concern about an article I am trying to create
Hello, I have created an article called Palestinian/Jordanian Dabkeh. The reason I chose to do so as a separate article is because I wanted to make an article focusing on a specific group of people. But with wikipedia, I am getting these warnings of what should and shouldn't be done. Do you guys mind, whoever the creator of the article is, that I continue on with this article. Also note that it's a project I have to work on. Let me know what you guys think thank you.

wikiraw31 (talk) 03:40, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Dabka is Egyptian too
Some user on here is unfortunately too close-minded to see beyond their own feet!

Dabka is the traditional folk dance of the Sinai Bedouins, especially in El-Arish (see: http://sharqigirl.over-blog.com/article-409153.html (page in French), and http://video.aol.com/video-detail/elarish-dabka-dance-in-egypt/4118861867 and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4d_DdRmgBc). The Sinai peninsula is geographically located in Asia and is culturally part of the Levant (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:The_Levant_3.png).

Egypt is a cuturally diverse country and different regions have their own traditional folk dances (see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFDFSl6z14U&feature=PlayList&p=688E052F8031D082&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=30) especially from Time 2:40 to 3:00 of that video clip.

Cheers. (98.194.124.102 (talk) 02:49, 3 June 2009 (UTC))

Wikiproject Israel must be removed
Dabke has nothing to do with Israel. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 12:46, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Read the article, and you will see that it does. By the way, your personal hang-ups are showing. Please tuck them in.--Gilabrand (talk) 13:34, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

I read the article and there is nothing about Israel. My personal hang-ups is to get the truth out and fight the Israeli theft and Israeli historical falsification of every single Arab culture and Arab food article at wikipeda.--Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 14:43, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Your remarks don't even deserve an answer. If you continue this way, you will not be on Wikipedia for long.--Gilabrand (talk) 17:53, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

If someone in China for example "dabak" (dance dabke) it doesnt make it related to China or Chinese culture and placing Wikiproject Israel in this article will make it look like it have something to do with Israel or Jewish culture which is NOT,so yes Wikiproject Israel must be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fad772 (talk • contribs) 17:22, 4 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes the dance has very little relation to do with Israel, yet the article still be within scope of project Israel. It doesn't matter who has which project tagged much, it matters how you improved it. So instead wasting time on discussing each other, you may try to improve the article. Kasaalan (talk) 18:08, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

How is it within scope of project Israel? --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 19:40, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Edits coming :)
Hello all, I'm a student at Georgetown's Masters in Arab Studies program and am a part of the Wikipedia Public Policy Initiative. Just wanted to give a heads up to the groups involved that I'll be doing research and edits on the origins and types of Debka, when it's danced, styles, etc. --Naj87 (talk) 21:49, 22 September 2010 (UTC)Naj87


 * Welcome Naj87. I'll try to help out in whatever way I can. Cheers. ← George talk 22:05, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Comments
I really enjoyed reading this article. I want to read more about the types of Dabke, although that section was quite informative as-is. Particularly the section on "Sahja", was very interesting - I wonder if this was the traditional precursor to freestyle battling! Also, the language is appropriate for an encyclopedia article on this topic - a complicated one considering that it is an art form performed by the masses and doesn't lend itself to delineation. I would like to see more on these types of dance, if such information exists, particularly those types with only a line or two of description. Also, I want to know more about where this type of dance fits into the social fabric of the societies that take part in it - addressing the complication described above specifically. So, for the artists who play instruments and sing, are there any status benefits or special respect paid to these individuals? Are performances of this dance very common? - maybe a delineation of where and when they might be performed and with what frequency would be helpful. There is some debate on this talk forum regarding regional prevalence of the dance, perhaps such a section would clear up a little of that confusion. Amongst no roses (talk) 22:13, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

comments
The recent additions to the article flesh out many of the needed details and give the reader a real sense of the variety of dance and the variations within each type. Smoothly written and easy to understand and follow, and a rich source of information. A few suggestions for even more improvement: one suggestion is to make a serious bibliography, at the very least by copying some of the references and adding them to the bibliography. But there are more that one could add, including MacDonald's and Ladkani's dissertations. Another suggestion is to standardize language and spelling and to put the Arabic words in for the names that are in English. Sometimes is Dala Ouna, sometimes Ala Dala Ouna. You should put the Arabic in the first time it appears, at least. And then there is Samir (where the alif is indicated by one "a") but with Zareef the ya is indicated by double "e". If you put in the Arabic, it will be clearer how to say these, since no standard transliteration system is used in the article. Radavis147 (talk) 17:05, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Critical Error: Dabka is NOT from Levant
Hello!, Dabka is not from Levant it's naturally born in Iraq!, this is really an undertaken truth, the folkloric music of Levant is the same of Iraq from which they have taken it, they also use the Iraqi dialect and the Iraqi folkloric songs, but as long as there are only few Iraqi sites it will be undertaken because there are no sites for the folkloric, so everybody can add articles to the own site with the information he likes and that's why Dabka is considered as...Syrian but it's really not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.170.211.140 (talk) 13:06, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

comment
Quote: "It is popular in several Arab countries such as Jordan, Lebanon, Palestine,Northern Saudi Arabia, Hatay (a city of Turkey), Syrian coast,and among the Assyrians of Iraq."

Palestine, Northern Saudi Arabia, Hatay, Syrian coast and Assyrians are NOT COUNTRIES.

Should the dancing of dabkes in Israeli folkdance be mentioned here?
Choreographed dabkes (usually spelled debkas) are frequently danced in Israeli folkdance sessions, both inside and outside of Israel. Should this be mentioned in the article? Erniecohen (talk) 21:35, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

I totally agree ! if the dance birthplace is the Syria (region), then Israel is a country there ! if you can chech the guards of this article, you would find that they are ARABS such as Sarah Canbel who aggressively tag any change of the Arab origin to be disruptive !

Nowadays, they say that Constantinople is a Turkish city now, it is originally Greek Byzantine ! so if there is a folk dance in the city BEFORE the Seljuks came in, the lame people would still consider it as Turkish folk dance ! The same for Haifa or Acre for instance ! they were Canaanite, then Arab for 200 years then Crusaders came in, Mamluks, Ottomans for 400 years which is more than the ARAB control and finally Jews came in ! So what do you think ?! I recommend to give portions to the origin based on the occupiers like Dabke has been Turkish for 400 years more than being an Arab ! if the Arab "ethnicity" defines this dance of Syria region, you should call for the Israeli inclusion. I support your claim 200% ! Oriental Sword (talk) 10:52, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added tag to http://media.www.batesstudent.com/media/storage/paper1116/news/2007/03/13/Arts/Dabkeh.Troupe.Dances.For.Cultural.Awareness.Solidarity-2774266.shtml
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081227070919/http://www.el-funoun.org/new/art6.html to http://www.el-funoun.org/new/art6.html

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Semi-protected edit request on 6 January 2018
circles have centers not middle parts. 2605:E000:9143:7000:7129:3D1C:53E5:17CE (talk) 23:12, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
 * ok, done, Huldra (talk) 23:28, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

Levantine Peoples Dance
The Wikipedia article has plenty of references to different Levantine populations performing this dance besides “Arabs”. The article points, with sources, to the origins from Canaanites/Phoenicians and not Arabs. It therefore should not be referenced as a specifically “Arab Folk Dance”. The main description should be “Levantine Folk Dance” and then further broken down in the article which peoples perform it. Cohenonline (talk) 19:22, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't know what you mean by Arabs in quotation marks, but we are not going back thousand years to where the dance originated. That's for the history section. We are in the present and in the present Dabke is universally recognized as an Arab folk dance performed by Arabs native to the Levant. Dabke is performed by Levantine Arabs primarily, foremostly, and also perfomed historically by Jews (and other religious minorites) that were living in the Levant. Regardless, it makes little difference because Arabs are "Levantine" also. JJNito197 (talk) 19:47, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

It literally says “originating culture: Levantine” not “Levantine Arab” or “Arab”. Dabke belongs to all Levantine peoples of the Levant including non Arab cultures. Cohenonline (talk) 23:34, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

Calling it “Arab Folk Dance” implies it belongs specifically to Arabs or that it’s performed only by Arabs and it’s not. Cohenonline (talk) 23:35, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

This is taken from the Dabke Wikipedia Article itself :

Medium Circle dance and line dancing Types Variations Originating culture Levantine Cohenonline (talk) 23:37, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

You cannot use wikipedia as a reliable source plus Dabke being an Arab dance is well sourced whereas your opinion is unsourced and just that. Your statement that Dabke being for all Levantine peoples is unsourced and ridiculous just like that unhelpful and vague 'Levantine' identity JJNito197 (talk) 09:42, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

I posted a source and you removed it. Looks like you continue to vandalize the page so I will have to report you. This page is not yours to edit based on your feelings. Cohenonline (talk) 09:57, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

The source you posted was a duplicate - it's already on the article. I added another source to confirm the Arab origin. You're the one making your feelings known and making edits based on your incorrect and offensive understading that Lebanese and Syrians aren't Arab. JJNito197 (talk) 10:00, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

You can have multiple sources posted in multiple spots in the page. If you continue to remove all my edits, I will also report you for harassment Cohenonline (talk) 10:02, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

Good luck with that buddy. Wikipedia is about collaboration. JJNito197 (talk) 10:04, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

Exactly, collaboration and you aren’t collaborating. Going back in your edit history and it’s clear that it originally was “Levantine Folk Dance” and YOU added the “Arab” edit. It’s wrong and when it was changed, you took it upon yourself to change it back without posting in “talk”.

“Good luck with that buddy”……just the attitude I’d expect. Cohenonline (talk) 10:10, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

I don't give a dam about your expectations buddy, you have already shown your self to lack the awareness and compassion towards other groups, namely Arabs, by erasing the identity of them in the Levant by claiming they are not what they claim to be, but what you claim them to be. And you also forgot Jordan amongst your verbage. JJNito197 (talk) 10:51, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

Thousands of years old
@Red Phoenician Why do you always use the method of conflict as if we are in the Lebanese civil war, why don't you come and discuss to find a solution?. Wikipedia is not a place to dispute or prove the truth of something via biased sources: such as according to this and that. This dance is part of the identity of millions in the Levant and the Levantine Diaspora. Why not just be ``Levantine``. Why search for any clue to prove that the dance was Phoenician, to assert the Phoenician roots of the dance, ancient art and literature depicting dancing Phoenicians from Cyprus have been cited as evidence. However, it is important to critically evaluate the validity of these depictions and their cultural context. For instance, were they engravings discovered in the Levant, akin to the Egyptian civilization, or do they have an origin elsewhere?. Sarah SchneiderCH (talk) 18:07, 28 April 2023 (UTC)


 * I have already discussed it with a fellow editor (Iskandar323) for the reason that I removed the Canaanite, I retrieved it under the name of a theory because it is a personal conclusion, not a scientific one.
 * *Please don't take anything back until everyone agrees. Sarah SchneiderCH (talk) 18:19, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello, to compare this situation to the Lebanese civil war is extremely insensitive and outright disgusting. If you going to again resort to personal attacks and not be civil you will not be taken seriously on Wikipedia. This is a platform built on good faith and cooperation (see WP:EQ). I do not understand the issue of the inclusion of the Phoenicians in the article as firstly they are part of the broader Levantine cultural sphere and secondly the information is sourced. You cannot remove sourced information simply because you disagree with it. If you continue to do so it will be seen as disruptive editing.
 * In regards to your question on the location of the engravings they were found in Cyprus which was a hub of Phoenician commercial and domestic activity at the time. Red Phoenician (talk) 19:57, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
 * @Red Phoenician Who is attacking you? my father is a Lebanese Maronite, no one attacks you, but only in my view of your contribution, I find that it is related to the issue of identity. Anyway, it is  possible to put
 * According to Palestinian folklore researcher Awwad Sa'ud al-'Awwad, the dabke jumps may have originated in ancient Canaanite fertility rituals related to agriculture, chasing off evil spirits and protecting young plants. According to Lebanese historian Youssef Ibrahim Yazbec, the dabke descends from Phoenician dances thousands of years old.
 * but in 'Theories' section. Sarah SchneiderCH (talk) 20:45, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Regarding the images, it needs to be carefully, because when you find the images with titles from Cyprus, you think that it is a Cypriot dance. Sarah SchneiderCH (talk) 20:48, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
 * It has been added. If there is anything else you disagree with, please mention it.
 * Regarding the pictures, there is no mention of the ``Dabkeh`. Please read Group dance (Circle dance) to realize that there are many similar dances. Sarah SchneiderCH (talk) 21:12, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello, in relation to Wikipedia editing, the ethnicity of your father does not matter, your ethnicity does not matter, my ethnicity does not matter. I do not understand why you must bring up personal identity into every discussion when it is clearly against Wikipedia policy. It is inappropriate to make comparisons to the Lebanese civil war, and especially when you seem to revolve everything around preconceived identities already having made personal accusations against myself and others (which have turned out to not even be true).
 * It does not make sense to have two separate sections for history and "theories". The information is sourced and it makes it look like POV-pushing. Merging both sections into a history section is a better option.
 * In regards to the images, the source clearly states that the images are of Phoenician origin so there is no point in contesting it. Unless you have evidence that Youssef Ibrahim Yazbec is talking about a completely different Phoenician dance it is still relevant to include the information in the page
 * Also, you have added a wordpress blog as a source. I will remove this as it violates Wikipedia standards. (WP:NOBLOGS) Red Phoenician (talk) 05:45, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
 * There's not necessarily any disagreement between those two scholars. Both say the dance is thousands of years old and emerged from early Canaanite/Phoenician culture, which may well have been a single cultural group. Iskandar323 (talk) 06:08, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
 * They cannot be referred to as scholars, the Palestinian can hardly find his name on the network and I asked you to help me (User_talk:Iskandar323), and the Lebanese was a journalist and politician who cofounded the Lebanese People's Party. @Red Phoenician Regarding the image and related in the Phoenician. It is advisable not to rely on a solitary source to be an original research. with images of the mijwiz and daf, instruments that both go back to antiquity that are still used in modern-day dabke, being present It is not even mentioned in the source that it is due to SYNTH and INTEGRITY Sarah SchneiderCH (talk) 08:33, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
 * The source itself literally refers to his theory is that the Phoenicians were the first teachers of the dance in the world, and the dabke is a representative descendant of the Phoenician dances left to us. Also, the Canaanite source indicates that it is a theory: Other theories about the origin of Dabke, such as 'Awwad Sa 'ud al-'Awwad's, link this dance to "ancient rural symbology.
 * * As long as there is a dispute, a consensus is advised before any edit Sarah SchneiderCH (talk) 08:45, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello, it is not up to you to determine who is scholarly or not, both sources are reliable and sourced (WP:REPUTABLE). On the other hand both of the sources that you added are neither reliable nor sourced as they are both blogs with no references whatsoever. If there is an issue in the wording of the instruments the sentence can simply be amended as "with images of a double-pipe flute and frame drum, instruments that both go back to antiquity, with similar instruments still being used in modern-day dabke".
 * Do not bother with the "As long as there is a dispute, a consensus is advised before any edit" when you yourself already made edits earlier without a consensus. This is the second time that you have ignored my response on a talk page, which led me to assume that you had conceded regarding the dispute, only to jump back in right as I make an edit. I have tried to assume good faith but it is obvious you are not willing to cooperate with other users and simply wish to be disruptive and push your own agenda. I will no longer bother interacting with your charade, especially assuming you will not bother replying to me unless I make an edit. Red Phoenician (talk) 06:44, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Given your lack of trust in me, suppose I have my own agenda and you've filed a complaint against me. Why not seek a Third Opinion? Engaging other editors who can assess the issue will help break this seemingly endless cycle. Sarah SchneiderCH (talk) 17:53, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
 * @Red Phoenician I believe I should now proceed with filing a complaint against you for disrespecting the discussion, insulting me, and not adhering to proper communication etiquette. Sarah SchneiderCH (talk) 21:39, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Stop vandalizing the page, you re-added an unreliable blog source with no references after being warned by administrators not to do so and already conceded on the images in the same discussion. You have provided no evidence that the two Yazbec's are the same and added unprofessional grammar. You can make accusations all you like, everyone will see you are just being disruptive and lying. Red Phoenician (talk) 06:51, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

Youssef Ibrahim Yazbec
I added a wikilink to Youssef Ibrahim Yazbec = Yusuf Yazbek. Now Im not sure they are the same person (my impression after reading the comments of Red Phoenician). I read in the Arabic Wiki that the guy I added a link to his page was also a historian, but in case Im mistaken, revert me. Attar-Aram syria (talk) 11:30, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment: okay, it is certain that Youssef Ibrahim Yazbec is the guy I linked 1. Ofcourse, his political career doesnt negate his other work. He was not driven by ethnic ideology (a communist, hardly a Phoenician nationalist) and his views are not weakened by his agenda (again, a communist). He was however not an academic historian, but an amateur historian, yet had an honorary phd in the philosophy of history from the university of Sheffield.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 11:39, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

Dabke is not generalized Levantine dance
Dabke is not general Levantine dance, since you want to include Israel and other countries in the Levant. It’s specifically a Levantine Arab dance specific to: Lebanon, Syria, Palestine, Jordan The word and history is specific to those countries. What other countries and groups of people call their circle line dances is irrelevant. Lebanesebebe123 (talk) 16:08, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

Someone is editing page to show Palestinian bias for dabke
No one single Levantine group has more claim over dabke than the other. All of the pictures and info is geared towards excessively mentioning Palestine only. Not enough info for the other countries Lebanesebebe123 (talk) 14:42, 5 February 2024 (UTC)