Talk:Dark horse

Untitled
Ummm.... I do believe that a "dark horse" originally is actually a horse in racing about which little is known generally. But the trainers have been keeping quiet that it's a very good racer. Thus it has long odds but a good chance of winning.

The use of dark horse outside of racing was coined to describe James K. Polk and there is no metion of him...

Also, a "dark horse" in film is a movie which seems obscure but does unexpectedly well.

Thus, a "dark horse" generally is anything that comes from seemingly obscure origins but turns out to be very successful.

This article should be moved to "dark horse candidate" and a new one created for "dark horse" Sbwoodside 18:42, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * Well, that background is interesting. Quite a lot of articles link to Dark horse and it looks as if (almost?) all mean the candidate. Rather than have to sort all that out, a disambiguation page might be better. However, I suggest adding your etymology to the top of the present article (well worth it in my view). I think this would improve the article and still leave it quite managable. Thincat 08:47, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * That's what my original reaction was, actually...M1ss1ontomars2k4 17:58, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

do you guys over in the USA only apply this term for presidential elections/nominees? because if not, then pope john paul II would be another example, where non-americans could possibly relate to better than just a list of your presidents. regard, 84.129.177.44 15:09, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Abraham Lincoln
I added him. :) Xelnanga 16:56, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Dark Horse as a more general expression.
Shouldn't we have a main Wikipedia entry about the expression "Dark Horse" with "Dark Horse candidates" referred to within the article, or even with their own article? I see above people have talked about the disambiguation page and of "sorting out links", but this is in my opinion a rather sloppy way of fixing a rather nonsensical situation.

My reasoning behind this - (as discussed elsewhere) people have been using the expression "dark horse" since the year dot to describe any competitor or thing that exhibits the same qualities as are used for the narrow "dark horse candidate" definition - Dark horses for Academy awards, for Olympic medals etc. The term is in common usage in the rest of the English speaking world.

If you go and look at the entry for "Dark Horse Records" you will see that it is a record company that George Harrison started, with the name being a reference to Harrison's own status as a "dark horse" (as a singer and songwriter) among the more fancied Lennon and McCartney. Right now we have the absurd situation of "dark horse" from that article (referring to Harrison) linking to Dark Horse (candidates). Where's the Wikipedia entry for the actual expression? There isn't one because this is in its spot.

Coming from outside the USA I had never even heard of the "Dark Horse candidate" usage and while I can completely understand it as a totally valid TYPE of Dark horse, it certainly shouldn't be the root definition. It would be like looking up "Banana" and having it be all about Banana Splits - then making a disambiguation page because lots of banana split related material links to "banana"70.189.213.149 (talk) 14:25, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Seconded. Can I ask for current opinions on renaming this article to Dark horse candidate with a new, more general, article called Dark horse? Millstream3 (talk) 10:02, 10 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Another vote. At the very least, this article needs to be less US-centric.  Here in the UK, "dark horse" does not have a political context but is used as a mildly approving term to mean a person (usually male) with a surprising and previously unknown talent or achievement, perhaps with a slightly wicked flavour, for example an impressive sexual conquest.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.34.218.209 (talk) 13:33, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Made it less US-centric because it was really bad. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.45.98.202 (talk) 16:11, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think American usage is quite so one-sidedly in favor of the political meaning. This American at least uses the expression and has encountered it in reports of NASCAR events and college basketball tournaments where the root meaning is used. Also, there is always Dark Horse Comics. Don't extrapolate too far from those Americans who have contributed to this article so far, their familiarity with only the political usage is not necessarily indicative of US usage in general. --Khajidha (talk) 04:42, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
 * The term is general, and the narrow focus on politics in this article overloads it somewhat. However I see no need for any separate article for 'dark horse candidate' since the sense is exactly the meaning of the term, which can apply in any situation - even romantic (such as when a quiet guy/girl successfully wins the attention of the person they like). Onanoff (talk) 16:32, 30 June 2016 (UTC)

'Unlikely to succeed' ?
In the UK at least, I'm pretty sure when something is described as a 'dark horse', the emphasis is on the fact that despite a lack of 'form', there's a possibility of a *good* performance? Happypoems (talk) 13:58, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

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Clinton
I would think Bill Clinton would be another person to add to the dark horse President list. An almost unknown Governor of Arkansas in 1991, when Mario Cuomo, Jerry Brown and Paul Tsongas were all much better known, with a national profile, it wasn't until the Gennifer Flowers scandal erupted that Clinton became nationally known. 98.10.165.90 (talk) 02:19, 15 February 2017 (UTC)