Talk:Dawn Landes

Lowercases first name?
I noticed that user Mareklug has several times changed the subject's first name to lower-case, saying "dawn lowercases her first name," but providing no citation for that assertion. Can you provide a citation for use dawn instead of Dawn? Her website (http://www.dawnlandes.com/) and her label's website (http://westernvinyl.com/artists/dawnlandes.html) both appear to think she capitalizes her first name. Rickterp (talk) 22:29, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Sure, from 2007, before anyone forcemarketted dawn in the Main Marek-place: http://gogoindierocket.wordpress.com/2007/04/10/tube-dawn-landes-and-the-wst-bluegrass-band-young-folks/ --Mareklug talk 02:10, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
 * OK, do you have a source that's not a seven year old blog post? I'm looking at the liner notes of her latest CD, Bluebird, that names identifies her throughout at "Dawn" (for example, "Produced by Thomas Bartlett & Dawn Landes"). You could argue that she shifted from "dawn" to "Dawn" because marketing, but if she's going by "Dawn" now that's how she should be identified. Rickterp (talk) 21:28, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Aside from that blog post, there is really nothing out there backing up the idea that she chooses to go by "dawn" and lots and lots of official-looking "Dawn" references. My personal favorite is her welcome message on her Pledge Music site (http://www.pledgemusic.com/projects/dawnlandes), which she signs "xo Dawn." If she really wants to go by "dawn" she picks an odd way to sign her name. Rickterp (talk) 22:32, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I've now changed all references to use "Dawn" instead of "dawn." I've searched exhaustively and found no one anywhere, aside from that 2007 blog post, refer to "dawn Landes." All official mentions of her that she would be expected to have input on -- on her website (http://www.dawnlandes.com/), on her label's website (http://westernvinyl.com/artists/dawnlandes.html), on her Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/dawnlandes), in the liner notes of her latest album -- as well as all unofficial articles about her, refer to her as "Dawn Landes." If this was a situation that was comparable to established lowercase name persons (like k.d. lang or bell hooks), there would be little difficulty finding lowercase references to the person and all official mentions would use the preferred case. Without any such evidence, it seems silly to insist that "dawn" is the correct spelling. Rickterp (talk) 21:44, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Let's agree to be thorough, first of all. dawn is obviously not in control of enforcing how SHE -- the BLP SUBJECT (please see our rules on BLPs) -- wishes THIRD PARTIES IN THE MUSIC AND PUBLISHING BUSINESSES to properly spell or capitalize her first name. She can only enforce so much. However, we blessed to have her herself-run MySpace page, which she controls as a musician, content provider and proprietor.  We are blessed to have on record her own artwork and her own writing of her own composer credits within the informational album listings associated with her own album "Fireproof" and her other albums, as included by her on her MySpace subpages and which can be founded elsewhere with a little googling.  I suggest you take all that evidence under consideration before you rely on what amounts to hearsay, bad practice, and commercial gloss, usually by people thoughtlessly acting in absence of information.  Try also not to appeal in a blanket way and in an exaggeration to authority: i.e. "all the official pages and all label websites refer to her as...") but to common sense as backed up by carefully examined evidence, in time and in kind, such as her own internet output current as of this month.  I would venture to opine that her own album cover art, where she expressly lowercased only dawn but not Lande, is a published item and thus constitutes a Reliable Source: cover of  "Fireproof" -- is enough to establish how to capitalize her name at her BLP.  Now, you may disagree with me on that, which of course I allow, but at least do address that item, and her use of dawn on her own MySpace page, which she controls.  In case you still think this issue should be resolved by making dawn into Dawn on her BLP Wikipedia article, please kindly desist from forcible reverting, especially after we have already discussed this at length and I did produce the evidence you requested. Instead, feel free to raise this issue now or later on the BLP noticeboard, wherein a larger community of seasoned editors would have a chance to consider it.  Please note that as a BLP, her Wikimedia biography is subject to strictures of fidelity beyond and above the default reasonable.  I.e., her personal wishes on record take precedence, as they are referenced by Reliable Sources. This trumps any corporate gloss or default typography.  Thank you immensely.  --Mareklug talk 14:35, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for your detailed reply. I will refrain from further edits until we achieve consensus on this issue -- I'm sorry if I made that edit prematurely.

I was not aware of her MySpace page -- I admit that it clearly names her as "dawn Landes." However, when I look at other sources she would likely also control (her personal website http://www.dawnlandes.com/, her Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/dawnlandes, the liner notes of her most recent album, and her PledgeMusic fundraising site for forthcoming covers EP http://www.pledgemusic.com/projects/dawnlandes), not to mention virtually every third-party reference to her as an artist, I continue to believe that "Dawn Landes" is currently the appropriate way to refer to this person.

I think we have two conflicting perspectives here and I'm not sure either one of us will be able to convince the other -- even with facts. This is because, I think, we have two conflicting narratives of the dawn/Dawn story. Mine is that a musician who started out her career clearly wishing to be called "dawn Landes" (using it on the covers and liner notes of albums early in her career) has switched to "Dawn" -- I have no other credible explanation for the virtually universal references to her as "Dawn" in recent years. The lone counter-example is her MySpace page, which was likely set up with a username of "dawn Landes" when she was still lower-casing her first time (back in the days when having a MySpace page was really essential for a musician) -- maybe she simply never bothered to update her username since the "dawn Landes" era? And I see no reason why a MySpace page should be seen as more reliably indicating her wishes than her Facebook page or website. Part of my perspective is that I first discovered Dawn/dawn's music with Sweetheart Rodeo, which contains consistent references to "Dawn Landes" (including cover-art that clearly uses "Dawn"), with one interesting exception: the songwriting credits say "dawn Landes" (possibly for legal reasons because it's about copyright?). Since then, the liner notes for Bluebird use "Dawn" (when not in all caps, such as the cover art).

On the other hand, you clearly believe that the person named "dawn Landes" has never dropped her wish to be known with a lower-case first name. I'm sure that's because you've been following her longer than me and have always known her as "dawn." To you, every example of "Dawn Landes" that I can find is clearly a case of someone who doesn't know or doesn't care about her wish to be called "dawn."

I'd love to find an interview with dawn/Dawn online where an interview asks her about lower-casing her first name, but I've found nothing. I easily found a half-dozen interviews by Googling "dawn Landes interview" and found that they universally called her "Dawn" and none of them asked her "What's the deal with lower-casing your first name?" Now, from my point of view, that's more evidence that dawn/Dawn really is "Dawn" at this point. On the other hand, to you that's yet more evidence of unthinking people who just don't get it about dawn's wish to lower-case her first name. Though, honestly, if it was me and I really wanted to have people lower-case my first name, I would make a point of mentioning it in the interview. Actually because the capitalized version is so omnipresent, I'd have an attitude about it! "And when are those idiots who maintain my Facebook page and website going to stop calling me "Dawn" for Pete's sake?!?! And my stupid label too? Geez..."

All that said, short of a clear smoking gun, I don't think we are ever going to succeed in convincing each other the proper case to use for dawn/Dawn. I suggest we submit this to a third opinion to try to resolve this. How does that sound?

Thank you for your support of dawn/Dawn. She's a wonderful musician who deserves to be a household name -- using whichever case she prefers! Rickterp (talk) 20:52, 12 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Re-reading your prior post, I now realize you suggest posting this issue on the BLP noticeboard. I'm doing that now. Thank you for that suggestion. Rickterp (talk) 17:11, 13 May 2014 (UTC)


 * I took the time to read the BLP noticeboard post and don't see any assertion backed by third party reliable sources that the name should be in lowercase. Unless there's new sources provided I will make the move. Thanks --CutOffTies (talk) 00:57, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

Notability
The article clearly does demonstrate the artist's notability by virtue of her three released solo albums and working with the other mentioned artists, all of whom clearly meet the notability requirements themselves. Therefore I am removing the 'not notable' tag. Matt T. (talk) 09:24, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Also added references back to her homepage and deleted the "citation needed" box, necessary thanks to the people who insist every little piece of text, no matter how self-evident or uncontroversial, be tagged with a reference, and merrily go around slapping "Citation needed" boxes on what must be literally every article they read, and then skip away without ever doing any of the hard work of finding and coding those citations, all the while thinking they're somehow helping instead of degrading the signal:noise ratio. Matt T. (talk) 09:57, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Date of birth
How old is she? I think that´s pretty important and i cant seem to find this information anywhere —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.206.178.41 (talk) 00:36, 20 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Click on the polish language version. :) http://www.ew.com/ew/gallery/0,,20201383_20201385_20181431_7,00.html --Mareklug talk 17:20, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

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