Talk:Dayalbagh

Resources and additional citations explaining the relevance, notability and importance of the Neha Sharma murder case
I am adding these additional citations to prevent future vandalism and provide a one-stop avenue for anyone wishing to know more about the importance of the matter.


 * 1) PhD student rape case transferred outside UP, May 1, 2017. Times of India []
 * 2) Supreme Court of India orders transfer of Neha Sharma murder case trial outside UP, Apr 30, 2017. Times of India []
 * 3) Neha Sharma murder case: Charges framed against lab technician for tampering with evidence, 28 November 2016. Indian Express. []
 * 4) Neha Sharma murder case: Agra court sends prime accused to jail, 30 May 2016. India Today []
 * 5) Family of girl raped, killed in Agra lab wants case shifted, 29 May 2016. Times of India []
 * 6) Research scholar’s ‘murder’ in Agra: Being pressured to withdraw case, says victim’s father, 25 May 2016. Indian Express []
 * 7) Neha Sharma murder case: Agra court sends prime accused to jail, 13 May 2016. India Today []
 * 8) Agra Lab murder: Court order arrest of Neha Sharma murder accused, 12 May 2016. Times of India []
 * 9) Fellow student murdered Neha Sharma: CBI, 7 January 2016. Times of India []
 * 10) Researcher murder:CBI files charge sheet against prime accused, 6 January 2016. Business Standard []
 * 11) Agra lab murder: CBI files chargesheet against 2 in Neha case, 5 January 2016. Times of India []
 * 12) 2 years after student’s murder in Agra university lab, hacker held, 6 October 2015. Times of India []
 * 13) Neha Sharma murder case: Probe with no end?, 9 January 2015. Times of India []
 * 14) Agra lab killing: 4 days after wife’s death, accused allowed last rites, 9 January 2014. Indian Express[]
 * 15) CBI team reaches Agra to probe into scholar's killing, 4 September 2013. The Pioneer []
 * 16) CBI to investigate Agra research scholar’s death, 8 August 2013. Indian Express []
 * 17) Agra research scholars murder: UP recommends CBI probe, 25 July 2013. Indian Express []
 * 18) UP CM recommends CBI probe into 3 murders, 25 July 2013. The Tribune []
 * 19) Youth claims to have witnessed murder of Agra research scholar, 18 July 2013. Indian Express[]
 * 20) Neha Sharma murder case: Court rejects bail pleas of 2 accused, 16 July 2013. News18. []
 * 21) Neha Sharma murder case: Bail pleas of 2 accused rejected, 16 July 2013. DelhiDailyNews. []
 * 22) Ex-Director’s grandson, aide arrested, 26 April 2013. Daily Excelsior. []
 * 23) Laboratory of murder clues, 25 April 2013. Indian Express []
 * 24) `Not sure whether Neha was raped before death`, 25 April 2013. Zee News []
 * 25) Agra: Neha murder case solved, 25 April 2013. iNextLive []
 * 26) Agra researchers murder: Student,lab technician held, 24 April 2013. Indian Express []
 * 27) Agra researcher murder case: 2 sent to police remand, 23 April 2013. Web India []
 * 28) 2 arrested in sensational Neha Sharma murder case in Agra, 23 April 2013. Web India []
 * 29) College Trust Chairman's grandson arrested for killing girl in Agra over one-sided Love!, 23 April 2013. India TV []
 * 30) Parents of Agra researcher want CBI to handle murder probe, 22 April 2013. Indian Express []
 * 31) Brahmin Sabha demands CBI probe into Neha murder case, 17 April 2013. Daily Excelsior []
 * 32) Jammu girl’s murder still unsolved, 13 April 2013. Daily Excelsior []
 * 33) JKP team to visit Agra, 2 April 2013. Daily Excelsior []
 * 34) Forensic experts begin probe into researcher's murder case, 1 April 2013. NDTV []
 * 35) Cops release sketches of Agra murder suspects, 25 March 2013. Indian Express []
 * 36) J&K to send police team to UP, 21 March 2013. Daily Excelsior. []
 * 37) Agra murder: Cops suspect academic rivalry, 19 March 2013. Indian Express []
 * 38) Killer chased Agra researcher around lab: Cops, 18 March 2013. Indian Express []
 * 39) Agra Murder Case: Student protest in Agra, 18 March 2013. India TV []
 * 40) Agra: 24-year old woman scientist murdered, 17 March 2013. NewsXpress []
 * 41) Woman researcher brutally killed in Agra institute, 17 March 2013. Times of India []
 * 42) Question Hour: Another Nirbhaya murdered (March 16, 2013)- Part 1, 16 March 2013. NewsNation. []
 * 43) Agra Girl student found stabbed to death in her college lab, 16 March 2013. India TV []
 * 44) Agra: Girl student found dead in her college lab, 16 March 2013. News18 []
 * 45) Case discussed in UP Legislative Assembly, official link []

Resources in Hindi:
 * 1) आगरा में शोध छात्रा की हत्या का मामला विधानसभा में गूंजा, Jagran []
 * 2) शोध छात्रा की हत्या को लेकर कार्यवाही स्थगित, Hindustan []
 * 3) आगरा पीएचडी छात्रा मर्डर केस: नए सबूतों में उलझी पुलिस, News18 IBN7 []
 * 4) PHD छात्रा मर्डर केस: लैब टैक्नीशियन और छात्र गिरफ्तार, News18 IBN7 []
 * 5) PHD छात्रा मर्डर केस: पेनड्राइव के लिए हुई नेहा की हत्या?, News18 IBN7 []
 * 6) छात्रा मर्डर केस: 2 लोगों पर अटकी पुलिस के शक की सुई, News18 IBN7 []
 * 7) आगरा छात्रा मर्डर केस में शक के घेरे में दो लोग, News18 IBN7 []
 * 8) आगरा: लैब में पीएचडी छात्रा की हत्या में एक गिरफ्तार, News18 IBN7 []
 * 9) आगरा PHD छात्रा मर्डर केस: लैब टैक्नीशियन गिरफ्तार, News18 IBN 7 []
 * 10) बसपा ने वि.परिषद् में उठाया शोध छात्रा की हत्या का मामला, BSP India []
 * 11) शोध छात्रा हत्याकांड पर फूटा आक्रोश, Jagran []
 * 12) शोध छात्रा की हत्या के दो आरोपी हिरासत में, IANS []
 * 13) आगरा में छात्रा के कत्ल की दास्तान सुन अखिलेश की आंखें नम, NewsOneIndia []
 * 14) आगराः नेहा के घरवालों को पांच साल से इंसाफ का इंतजार, MSN []
 * 15) सीबीआई ने दर्ज किया शोध छात्रा की हत्या का मामला, NavBharat Times []
 * 16) शोध छात्रा हत्या की जांच को सीबीआइ का डेरा, Jagran []
 * 17) शोध छात्रा के पिता को जान का खतरा, Jagran []
 * 18) बलात्कार के बाद बेरहमी से हुआ था नेहा का कत्ल!, Hindustan []
 * 19) आगरा के हाई प्रोफाइल नेहा हत्या कांड में सीबीआई ने दाखिल की चार्जशीट।, SamacharDuniya []
 * 20) एक तर्फी प्रेमको नतिजा, Kalika FM Nepal []
 * 21) लैब में शोध छात्रा की हत्या मामले में रिटायर्ड आईएएस का नाती भेजा जा रहा जेल, Bhadas4Media []
 * 22) नेहा शर्मा हत्याकांड में सुनवाई अब 22 जनवरी को, Amar Ujala []
 * 23) आगरा में चर्चित नेहा हत्याकांड की सुनवाई 22 को, Hindustan []
 * 24) बहुचर्चित नेहा हत्याकांड : सुनवाई आगरा न्यायालय में, पिता की याचिका खारिज, LiveNewXpress[]
 * 25) नेहा शर्मा हत्याकांड में अब चार्जशीट की तैयारी, Amar Ujala []
 * 26) नेहा शर्मा हत्याकांड में अब उदय स्वरूप को हिरासत में लेने की होगी सुनवाई, Samachar Dunia []
 * 27) नेहा शर्मा हत्याकांड :सीबीआई ने दाखिल की चार्ज शीट, TheIndianXpress []
 * 28) उप्र के 3 मामलों को सीबीआई जांच का इंतजार, Deshbandhu []
 * 29) आगरा में शोध छात्रा की कालेज परिसर में हत्या, TaazaSamachar []
 * 30) बहुचर्चित नेहा हत्याकांड : कोर्ट से आरोपी को दिया एक हफ्ते का समय, EENaduIndia []
 * 31) शोध छात्रा हत्‍याकांड: सीबीआई जांच की सिफारिश पर उठे सवाल, Dainik Bhaskar []
 * 32) शोध छात्रा मर्डर में 3 संदिग्धों के स्केच जारी, ZeeNews []
 * 33) शोध छात्रा की आगरा कालेज में रेप और हत्या, MeriBitiya []
 * 34) दुष्कर्म पीड़िता के पिता ने चिट्‌ठी लिखकर लोगों से न्याय दिलाने की अपील की, KhaasKhabar []
 * 35) आगरा: डीईआइ में शोध छात्रा की निर्मम हत्या, सड़क पर उतरे छात्र, AjmerNaama []
 * 36) आगरा: कातिल के गिरेबां तक ऐसे पहुंचे रहे हैं पुलिस के हाथ, AjmerNama []
 * 37) आगरा में छात्रा की हत्या के विरोध में हंगामा, VirArjun []
 * 38) शोध छात्रा की हत्या के दो आरोपी हिरासत में, DeshBandhu []
 * 39) शोध छात्रा हत्याकांड में तीन संदिग्धों के स्कैच जारी, Dainik Tribune []
 * 40) आगरा शोध छात्रा हत्याकांड की जांच सीबीआई के हवाले, IBN7 []
 * 41) आगरा के नेहा हत्याकांड में उदय के साथ संधू पर भी आरोप तय, Raftaar []
 * 42) नेहा शर्मा मर्डर: केस दिल्ली ट्रांसफर करवाने वाली याचिका को सुप्रीम कोर्ट ने किया ख़ारिज, LiveNewsUttarPradesh []
 * 43) नेहा हत्याकांडः उदयस्वरूप का डीएनए मिला, Patrika []
 * 44) आगरा: लैब में पीएचडी छात्रा की हत्या में एक गिरफ्तार, News18 []
 * 45) आगरा में शोध छात्रा की कालेज परिसर में हत्या, NDTVIndia []
 * 46) पांच माह में बदल गया लैब का नक्शा, Amar Ujala []
 * 47) आगरा कोर्ट में होगी छात्रा नेहा शर्मा की हत्या के मामले की सुनवाई, Sanjeevni Today []
 * 48) छात्रा की हत्या के बाद आगरा में बवाल, Amar Ujala []
 * 49) नेहा शर्मा हत्याकांड में पिता की गवाही सात को, Hindustan []
 * 50) आगरा के डीईआई शोध छात्रा नेहा शर्मा रेप केस, AgraBharat []
 * 51) सीबीआई करेगी नेहा शर्मा मर्डर की जांच, NavBharat Times []
 * 52) नेहा शर्मा हत्याकांड में सीबीआइ ने दर्ज किया केस, Dainik Jagran []

I hope this will be enough for every one. JusticeNeeded123 (talk) 09:29, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

Edit/Remove new section Controversies?
I am not sure it is correct to say that the "suburb" entered "the national spotlight" based on what appears to be an unfortunate event that happened 5 years ago, and has been extensively discussed in the talk section below. While anyone certainly sympathizes with the family of the victim(s) of this crime, I am not sure it is appropriate to include this section. Essentially, it looks like we have a "stub"-class article about a "suburb in India", with a full section entitled "controversy" that is a collection of local news articles about a crime. Furthermore, based on the text, I am not sure what the ``controversy" is exactly, as "controversy" means "prolonged public disagreement or heated discussion". While one could include a list of crimes committed in any geographic location, township etc., I am not sure that this is the current practice followed by Wikipedia. (Statistics on murders and violent crime I guess could be included?) So propose I deleting or editing the new section. But I leave it to more experienced editors to take the final call, since it appears the user who added the section has an emotional interest in this issue, and I do not wish to upset them/enter in a prolonged debate.

Nilpotent137 (talk) 15:51, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

I do not have an emotional connection with the matter. As has been concluded in the talk section below by other senior editors, the problem is not with including it on this page but with violating the NPOV and BLP policies of Wikipedia. The information added violates none of these.

Also, the people accused and the role played by the institute make this case allegedly controversial. Wikipedia does include controversial murder cases. Arushi and Hemraj double murder case [] and Sister Abhaya murder case [] are two examples where the controversial nature of the crime have warranted inclusion in Wikipedia. Since, this is an under trial case, I have not added any further information.

Leading media organizations like TOI have repeatedly mentioned the controversial nature of the murder. []

So, restoring the content unless other senior editors disagree with the views expressed. JusticeNeeded123 (talk) 16:44, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

The event clearly does not compare to the Noida double murder case. That event was noteworthy because critics duvved it a trial by media, and apparently innocent people were accused and labeled guilty by media that were later found innocent. So it sparked a national debate on the issue of trial by media. In any case, the Wikipedia article on Noida does not mention it.

The references are mostly local newspapers, or Agra City editions of national newspapers. It is misleading and unencyclopeadic to say the locality shot into the national spotlight. NooneEdits (talk) 05:34, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

1) Go through "all" of the additional citations mentioned above. Read every post. Watch every video. Don't just read the titles. It is incorrect to say that they are mostly local newspapers.

2) Facts which make this case controversial, notable and relevant to this page:-

a) The accused's grandfather was next in line to the Guru in the community's hierarchy and was the president of the Dayalbagh Satsang Sabha. This same community predominantly populates and manages Dayalbagh.

b) The accused's grandfather became the Director of the institute, and was the Chairman of the trust which manages the institute.

c) The accused's grandfather is a retired senior administrative officer, who allegedly used his political contacts to hinder the investigation. (as claimed by the police and the media.)

d) Alternate theories popping up in the media. See video in the linked post. []

e) The alleged botched up investigation by the local police.

f) Local police unsure whether Neha was raped before death or not.

g) Report by local police that the slide to assess the rape got corrupted.

h) CBI using the same slide to find the accused's DNA.

i) Unexplained access to the accused of the nano-biotechnology lab.

j) City wide protests in Agra by DEI students, and subsequent lathicharge by the police.

k) The case was discussed in the J&K parliament and a police team was sent by JKP.

l) The case was discussed in Uttar Pradesh Legislative Assembly.

m) The incident sparked debates on the national media drawing parallels with the Nirbhaya murder case.

n) UP's CM recommending the CBI probe, despite local police already claiming to have solved the case.

o) Repeated claims in the media that the investigating agencies were under pressure.

p) Unexplained popping up of evidence at places where nothing was found earlier.

q) No one initially willing to testify against the accused, and an eyewitness pops up only after 3 months allegedly because of the influential nature of the accused's family.

r) Police despite knowing that the accused was sending harassing messages to the victim did not take him into custody for over a month.

I could go on and on. Go through every reference and read every line and see every minute of the linked videos and you will find all your answers. AgraDEIstudent (talk) 22:45, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

Neha Sharma Murder Case
I have moved the location of the Neha Sharma Murder Case to the bottom of the Dayalbagh wikipedia article. I don't understand the need to put an isolated incident to the top of a page that should primarily about the locality. If your defense is to say that this is an important event, I will not disagree with you there, but it is an ongoing event, which can be better served at wikinews or searched at the news portals and should not be the primary subgroup in the article. Whether it should be there or not (I disagree that it should have a really long entry as there is no charge for the accused - they've only been arrested) I leave that to the other editors.

Duniyadnd 08:56 June 22 2013 (EST)

Neha Sharma Murder Case
I am deleting the Neha Sharma murder case section for the following reasons: Detrainman (talk) 03:28, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) It is news-worthy for the people in Agra (for sometime), but not a major section in the article
 * 2) It occurred in the DEI campus and not Dayalbagh (the ashram) per se

I am re-adding the Neha Sharma murder case section for the following reasons:
 * 1) Detrainman adding "for sometime" in his reason clearly shows that he has vested interest in hiding this matter.
 * 2) DEI campus is located in Dayalbagh, the suburb this article is about. This page is not about Dayalbagh (ashram).
 * 3) It is verifiable by media citations.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by AgraNewsObserver (talk • contribs) 09:28, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

AgraNewsObserver, Detrainman (talk) 12:54, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) You clearly are re-adding the section, which means you have a vested interest in the matter
 * 2) If every Wiki article had every murder that took place, then the pages of Delhi and Agra would be a daily murder report
 * 3) You clearly do not understand the difference between a wiki and a newspaper.
 * 4) Please visit WikiNews (en.wikinews.org) to update your news

Detrainman, AgraNewsObserver (talk) 18:30, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) Yes, I have a vested interest in the matter. I want the truth to come out. Everything in the section is verifiable through media reports.
 * 2) This is not an ordinary murder. Would you mind referencing a single murder that has occurred in an educational institute where everyone from the watchman to the chairman tried to protect the murderer? Would you mind referencing a single murder in Agra to which the media has given this much attention and students have shown this much discontent? There will be none except this one. This is no ordinary murder. It shakes the very foundation of our education system. An institute's chairman's grandson murders a Ph.D scholar using lab keys given to him by his grandfather even though he was just an undergrad and had no reason to access the nano-biotechnology lab. A religious sect's guru, despite the victim confessing in front of him, does not report the matter to the police but tries to hide it. The institute's administration instead of wanting the truth to come out tries to destroy evidence and even plans to dump the poor girl's body. It shocks me to the core that you believe that this should not be mentioned on Wikipedia. What if Neha, the girl murdered was your sister or daughter? Would you still say the same?
 * 3) Regarding your understanding of "wiki and and a newspaper", I would not like to point out your ignorance.

Neha Sharma Edit War
AgraNewsObserver: I am not going to edit the page right now, because we are in disagreement.

To clarify:
 * 1) I fully support transparency and justice in Neha Sharma's trial
 * 2) I wish that maximum penalty is given to the culprit(s)
 * 3) Some of your claims are allegations, and not facts till proven in court
 * 4) It appears that you do not like the Dayalbagh and Dayalbagh Educational Institute, and you are influenced by your feelings

Please read this:
 * 1) Go on other institute wiki pages and check if they have murders listed on their page.
 * 2) Go on any page about a suburb, and check if they have individual murders listed
 * 3) You will find that they don't have murders/crimes listed. This is not because the editors are insensitive, but because Wikipedia entry about Dayalbagh is intended be an encyclopedia, not a murder list

Finally:
 * 1) Create a separate Wiki page called "Neha Sharma Murder Case" and update it regularly
 * 2) If required, I will keep reverting your edits, till the end of the world.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Detrainman (talk • contribs) 19:12, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

Detrainman,

Regarding your clarifications:
 * 1) I highly doubt that.
 * 2) Given how you feel that this matter is "newsworthy (for sometime)" and "does not deserve being mentioned", your attitude is highlighted and it appears to me that either you don't respect women or are familiar with them being (raped and) murdered.
 * 3) First of all, these are not my allegations. These are reports published in print media. If you want, I can send some of them to you.
 * 4) You feel that I am doing this because I don't like Dayalbagh. Well, that isn't the case. If I did, I would have mentioned how Dayalbagh's administration cutoff the lights of the nano-biotech lab when the CBI went in there to look for clues. I would have also mentioned that Prem Kumar is next in line to be the guru. I would have mentioned how the sacred Dayalbagh satsang sabha members accompanied Prem Kumar to the police station everytime Uday was questioned. I would have mentioned why the authorities of the Dayalbagh educational institute did not take any action against Uday Swaroop when he was constantly harassing her through messages and phone calls. She even reported this to her professors. I would have mentioned how the professor who saw Yashveer leave with Neha's car kept quiet for so long. I would have mentioned why Uday was not suspended from DEI despite committing such a serious crime especially when DEI is known for its discipline. I would have mentioned how the institute's administration was in hurry to clean the lab. I would have mentioned how Uday whenever he was questioned by the police answered as if he was trained to do so. I would have mentioned how Dayalbagh authorities are still pressurizing Neha's family to not pursue the case. I would have mentioned that Prem Kumar still maintains that Uday is innocent. I would have mentioned how Director VG Das blatantly denies having any knowledge of Uday's behavior especially when many students said that he did not even respect the professors and did not even listen to them.

Please read this:
 * 1) Why are you trying to downplay this murder? It is serious and I doubt if a crime as serious as this has been committed in a suburb let alone an institute.
 * 2) I have never said that the editors are insensitive. I feel that you are because of your earlier remarks.

Finally:
 * 1) I strongly feel that this incident is something that should be mentioned on these pages as well.
 * 2) I don't want an edit war and will not be part of one. I want you to understand the seriousness of the issue and please let the poor girl's story be known to everyone. You say you are not insensitive. Well, it is time to prove so.

AgraNewsObserver (talk) 05:31, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

Content dispute
If you are unable to achieve consensus, can I suggest you seek an experienced editor to review the discussion and who might come up with their thoughts on how to proceed? I have used this approach previously to good effect. ''' Flat Out   let's discuss it   04:57, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

I have deleted the 'murder case' section for gross violations of WP:BLP policy
I suggest that contributors familiarise themselves with WP:BLP policy before adding such material. Much of it seems to be sourced to scanned sources uploaded by unknown persons - this is never acceptable as (a) it braches copyright, and (b) it is impossible to verify the authenticity of the content. I suggest that anyone wishing to include material related to the murder in this article starts by linking here the necessary sources to establish that the murder case is of direct relevence to the subject of the article - and note that translation may be required for anything not in English. If it can be estanblished that this murder is relevent to the article topic at all, it will of course be necessary to discuss it only to the extent that due weight requires. This article must not be used as a coatrack for off-topic material, or as a means to disparage the subject of the article by implication. AndyTheGrump (talk) 16:20, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Further to this, I would remind contributors that WP:BLP policy applies everywhere on Wikipedia - including talk pages. Describing an unconvicted person as a 'murderer' is a gross breach of policy. AndyTheGrump (talk) 16:25, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Note: I have raised this matter at Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard, and asked for outside assistance. AndyTheGrump (talk) 19:12, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Readding Neha Sharma murder case.
The section does not say that the accused is the murderer and is in line with NPOV. A lot of what is in the section can be verified at http://www.indianexpress.com/news/laboratory-of-murder-clues/1107266/0. To verify the rest of the content, I request users having knowledge of Hindi to read the eArchives of Amar Ujala Agra edition dated 16th March to 30th April at http://earchive.amarujala.com.

I also request Andy to suggest better ways to source content published in print newsp apers.

AgraNewsObserver (talk) 15:39, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Readding Neha Sharma murder case.
People are getting quite excited about not getting this case added to wikipedia. Steven Colbert said that "Reality has become a commodity" for a reason. Out of curiosity ... did Andy ever get back to you about a better way to source content? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.125.121.9 (talk • contribs) 02:26, 30 August 2014‎


 * Given the complete lack of evidence from published reliable sources so far provided that this murder is actually of direct relevance to the subject matter of the article, there appears to be nothing to add. AndyTheGrump (talk) 02:31, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

AndyTheGrump ... Actually the news sources referred to are quite respectable and reliable. On what basis are you basing your opinion that Times of India, Zee News, NewsXpress and Indian Express are not reliable? 24.125.121.9 (talk) 02:55, 30 August 2014 (UTC)


 * The sources you name may well be reliable for some things - they can however only ever be reliable for things they actually say. What specific content from which of the sources you name establishes that this murder is of significance to a general article on the Dayalbagh colony? AndyTheGrump (talk) 03:01, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

Good that no one is citing "lack of evidence from published reliable sources" anymore and have agreed that these sources are reliable. One of these reliable sources say that "Agra police has arrested grandson of DayalBagh Santsangh Sabha president and former Director of the University and a laboratory technician at DayalBagh for the murder of 25-year-old Jammu research scholar Neha Sharma". Now is it relevant? ;-)24.125.121.9 (talk) 03:24, 30 August 2014 (UTC)


 * And how exactly does that establish that a general article on Dayalbagh should include this murder case? It doesn't, as far as I can see. It is an article about a murder. Which accordingly says where the murder took place (though it actually names the University rather than the colony, and the headline reads 'Jammu Research Scholar’s murder in Agra'). Which is normal for articles on murders. Our article on Delhi doesn't include every murder that took place there, does it? To establish that this murder is significant to this article, you need to show that sources providing a general discussion of DayalBagh discuss the murder, rather than showing that sources discussing the murder name the place it occurred. AndyTheGrump (talk) 03:43, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

I am a bit confused, by use of term Dayalbagh colony. As per wikipedia Colony is "in politics and history, a territory under the immediate political control of a state, distinct from the home territory of the sovereign." This aside, one will have to read all of the the admitted reliable source to get a holistic picture of how this section is sourced. One of reliable sources does say that the murder took place in lab of Dayalbagh educational institute. Now can this can be added to either this article or perhaps to the Dayalbagh Educational Institute?24.125.121.9 (talk) 04:50, 30 August 2014 (UTC)


 * I used the term colony because the article does - it obviously doesn't mean 'colony' in the usual sense of the term. As for adding content to the article on the institute, the same point applies - you need to provide evidence that the murder is considered significant in general discussions of the subject. AndyTheGrump (talk) 05:02, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

First and foremost, I am glad that this is a civil discussion. The initial | emotional and questionable reaction creates an incorrect negative impression about the direction in which discussion may proceed. I agree that the article in its current form is misleading ... one example of this, as you have pointed out term 'colony' in not its usual sense is misleading. Further now, that you are no longer questioning location of the murder, perhaps you would also agree on "well cited" news that murder for which grandson of Dayalbagh Santsangh Sabha president and former Director of the University along with a laboratory technician at DayalBagh Educational institute, does adds enough element of controversy to warrant an addition in wikipedia. If not, please explain24.125.121.9 (talk) 05:37, 30 August 2014 (UTC)


 * My reaction to you reposting a gross violation of multiple Wikipedia policies, which had already been discussed in depth on this very page a year ago (see above - though I have every reason to suspect you have already read it) was entirely appropriate. And stop trying to put words into my mouth. I have said nothing whatsoever about the article being 'misleading'. And no, I agree to nothing - you have yet to provide the slightest evidence that any sources discussing either Dayalbagh or the Institute consider this murder (or rather alleged murder) relevant to a general discussion of the respective subjects. Wikipedia does not routinely cover murders (they are sadly far too common to be notable by default), and when we do, we do so based on evidence that the murder itself meets our notability guidelines, in an article on the subject of the murder. We do not use other articles as a coatrack for coverage of non-notable murders, and neither do we use such unfortunate events as a means to manufacture an imaginary 'controversy' about the actual subject of an article. If you believe the murder meets Wikipedia notability guidelines (which I would have to suggest is debatable) you should create an article on it - one compliant with policies, rather than the half-baked concoction of innuendo you have been attempting to foist on this article. If the murder merits and mention in either this article or the one on the institute at all, it will merit nothing more than a senrtence at most - and only that if proper sourcing can be provided to indicate its direct relevance. AndyTheGrump (talk) 06:11, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

AndyTheGrump ... this is talk page about Dayalbagh and I am glad we are having a civil discussion. The initial emotional reaction was anything but polite/professional and the fact on getting a polite but firm response, you closed/abandoned the "talk" created an incorrect impression.

The point about the article being incorrect at places ... term [colony]] was used in the article, you also had stated "it obviously doesn't mean 'colony' in the usual sense of the term". Doesn't this implies this term is incorrectly used? I am sorry to say this ... right from beginning you are firm in conclusion "the responses, that <- WP:BLP violation redacted -> should not be added to wikipedia", but reasoning is changing all the time!

First you questioned "reliability of the sources", once it was established that the sources are reliable; your reasoning changed to establishing a connection, once this was answered; then you questioned 'where the murder took place', when this was established that the murder took place in Dayalbagh Educational institute's lab; you started talking about colony and are now have a new reason. Also note that all the facts that were pointed out to you were present in citations and yet you were questioning them. May I ask reason for this 'changing reasoning' with firm 'conclusion'? <-gross violation of WP:BLP policy redacted AndyTheGrump (talk) 08:41, 30 August 2014 (UTC) -> 24.125.121.9 (talk) 07:06, 30 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Since you have yet again grossly violated Wikipedia policy, I have nothing further to say to you. You seem utterly incapable of complying with a simple requirement that you do not make unsourced assertions of guilt, have gone out of your way to misrepresent what I have said, and have completely refused to even attempt to provide the evidence that this alleged murder merits inclusion in the article. Your violation of WP:BLP policy will be reported, together with a request that you be blocked from editing. AndyTheGrump (talk) 08:41, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

Is Dayalbagh a territory under the immediate political control of a state, distinct from the home territory of the India? Or not?63.88.70.247 (talk) 13:24, 2 September 2014 (UTC)

Dayal Bagh Photograph
This file, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dayalbagh#/media/File:Dayal-bagh-12.JPG, is NOT a photograph of Dayal Bagh, but is actually a picture of Soamibagh.

Section for Discussion to prevent vandalism on the Controversies section
Since this page is being repeatedly targetted by vandals, I am creating this new section so that they can express their point of view as to why the controversy section should be removed. Explain yourself before removing the section. AgraDEIstudent (talk) 08:49, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

Of course, deleting a section because it is not appropriate to include in an article is not vandalism. Examples of vandalism include adding false statements and jokes for entertainment purposes. 

I am removing the two unjustified statements in the section controversies. 1: that students protested in the streets for justice. Given that there is very little proper documentation of this event, and there is no document of the institute's response, I don't think it is justified to include it. 2: that the suburb shot into the national spotlight. This is false hyperbole. National spotlight means front page of several national newspapers. This is not the case.

NooneEdits (talk) 15:00, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

1) See WP:Vandalism. [] [].

2) Avoid personal attacks. See Wikipedia:No personal attacks. [].

3) National spotlight does not only mean that a news was on the front page of newspapers. See additional resources mentioned above. Go through each of them. You will find sufficient evidence for both these statements.

Additionally, I am adding more citations for both these statements in the main article. AgraDEIstudent (talk) 20:55, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

Locality vs Ashram
It seems the name "Dayalbagh" refers both to a specific Ashram and to the locality in Agra surrounding that Ashram. Perhaps this should be clarified in the article. NooneEdits (talk) 05:23, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

This has already been clarified in the article. It is about the locality, not the ashram. AgraDEIstudent (talk) 20:58, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

More clarification
To further clarify: The locality called "Soami Bagh" ("Soami's Garden"), the former home of the late Shiv Dayal Singh and the present location of his tomb-shrine, is currently owned and controlled by the twin organizations known as the Radhasoami Satsang Central Administrative Council and the Radhasoami Trust (called "the Council and the Trust" for short). Its next-door neighbor "Dayal Bagh" ("Dayal's Garden") is owned and controlled by the organization Dayalbagh Sabha. Dayal Bagh and its founder-guru Sir Anand Swarup, Kt. were broadcasted to the Western public by Paul Brunton in his famed A Search in Secret India. Sir Anand Swarup received a knighthood for the massive social construction work performed at Dayal Bagh. The two rival organizations, Council/Trust and Dayalbagh, are both alive and functioning. Their major dispute is based on two differing views: The members of Council/Trust claim that Council/Trust is the "parent stock" of Radhasoami (-debatable), and hence must be the ruling entity of Radhasoami. The members of Dayalbagh Sabha feel slighted by the religious hegemony which they feel Council/Trust is imposing. Also, the members of Dayalbagh Sabha want access to the tomb-shrine of the revered Shiv Dayal Singh. In this light, Dayalbagh Sabha organised "SPIRICON 2010", a conference of various organizations who revere Shiv Dayal Singh (boycotted by Council/Trust), to promote mutual respect and to petition access to the tomb-shrine of supreme guru Shiv Dayal Singh. Oliver Puertogallera (talk) 00:25, 14 July 2018 (UTC)

Reverted deletion of Neha Sharma Murder
Now, I am no expert on this topic. But it seems that the inclusion of this murder has been continuously deleted from this page. The current reason is “removed as an isolated incident.” However, that doesn't meet any of the removal reasons per WP:RVREASONS, so I assume it's best to WP:IMPROVEDONTREMOVE. I would say that this removal is controversial, and there should be discussion (and hopefully some sort of consensus) before it gets removed again.

The explanations on the talk page of reasons for deletion seem to be old, and there seems to be plenty of national Indian news reports covering this incident over the course of many years (as seen above). The event seems significant enough, and it’s not as if the argument is about this event being its own article topic when it is just a single event. However, I personally am not sure if this event belongs on this type of page, since crimes usually aren’t included on the pages of the place they were committed, unless a crime is incredibly notable (e.g. Martin Luther King Jr.'s assassination under Memphis, Tennessee), or the location itself is known for crime (e.g. Baltimore). Even then, individual crimes don't have their own sections, and they instead tend to have a line or two written in another section.

In summary: I think this event is somewhat notable. I don't know if it belongs here. At the very least, the way it is currently written gives it undue weight, and it should not be under a section called "Controversial", since that's not using a Neutral Point of View (see: WP:SUBARTICLE).

I'll try to change the tone of the article so it is more neutral. And unless anyone has any objections or comments, I think I will either rename the section "Crime," or move it to be under the section "Dayalbagh Educational Institute." I think there should be some discussion about whether or not it belongs better just on the Dayalbagh Educational Institute page or somewhere else on Wikipedia. But overall, I think its inclusion warrants further discussion on the talk page. - Whisperjanes (talk) 19:21, 12 February 2020 (UTC)