Talk:Daylight saving time

Permanent daylight saving time
The information in the United States area of this subsection is outdated and should be edited. Elsewhere on this page it was mentioned that the United States will be going into permanent DST in November 2023, Should this should be reiterated here and should the outdated information be removed? 209.160.133.10 (talk) 19:33, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
 * That's not what the article says. The article says "in 2022, the U.S. Senate unanimously approved a bill to make DST permanent, starting November 2023." As of today, the bill has not been passed by the House of Representatives. So it is appropriate that the bill is discussed in the politics section of the article. If and when it passes the House and is signed by the president it can be described in other parts of the article. Jc3s5h (talk) 23:03, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
 * In the Permanent daylight savings time subsection it discusses the different bills, proposals, and commissions different U.S. states have put forward that would need Congressional approval to take effect, is this still applicable? What has happened or will happen to the individual states' efforts? Should this be expanded upon or updated in this subsection? 209.160.133.10 (talk) 18:57, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
 * No - for the stuff about the US, anything other than a quick summary belongs in Permanent time observation in the United States, to which Permanent daylight saving time in the United States redirects. Guy Harris (talk) 06:26, 15 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Separate question: is it noteworthy there was something called "dekretnoye vremya", literally "decree time", in USSR? Point is, it was one a "permanent daylight saving" measure back then - apart from additional "summer time" shift. 81.89.66.133 (talk) 08:15, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

Daylight savings time is used so children can play sports in the afternoon with more sunlight
People wake up earlier in the winter so children have more time playing outside, and participating in sports after school, while the sun is still out. It's not about saving candles at all. 2601:647:4000:12E0:6C2F:967C:983A:AB19 (talk) 02:39, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * The article doesn't propose that the purpose of DST (now) is to save candles. Did you actually read the article?  Do you think Benjamin Franklin proposed DST in 1784 so kids would have more time on the soccer field?   General Ization  Talk  02:47, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, the main purpose of Daylight Savings Time is so that kids have more time playing outside after school, and it's not known to be started by Benjamin Franklin either. 2601:647:4000:12E0:6C2F:967C:983A:AB19 (talk) 02:54, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Read the article.  General Ization Talk  02:55, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * The information is not right. 2601:647:4000:12E0:6C2F:967C:983A:AB19 (talk) 02:56, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * OK. Unless you would like to propose one or more specific changes and provide published, reliable sources to support them, we are done here.  General Ization Talk  02:58, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Did people forget that Daylight Savings Time is so that children have more daylight hours to play outside after school? 2601:647:4000:12E0:6C2F:967C:983A:AB19 (talk) 03:01, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

No. you can't forget something that isn't true. Guy Harris (talk) 05:30, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

OP I think you might be mistaken here: that's one of the reasons US school days start so early, has nothing to do with daylight savings time. There's an entire article discussing the pushback. 155.188.123.58 (talk) 23:38, 8 November 2022 (UTC)


 * 9 years ago in 2014, it used to be that the clock gets set forward one hour for winter, so 9AM summer time becomes 10AM winter time, though now, it's 9AM summer time becomes 8AM winter time. So now, when it's winter, and it's 3PM outside, it's 4PM summer time, instead of 2PM summer time. When it's gets to spring, the clock used to set backward one hour, so 9AM winter time becomes 8AM summer time.
 * Also, many students go to school early elsewhere in the world as well, like Russia and China, which start their day at 7:30AM to 8AM. 2601:647:4000:12E0:857E:6299:5FDA:655F (talk) 17:13, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Back in October 2022, the clock where I'm living got set forward one hour for winter, so nothing changed here from the way it was "9 years ago in 2014". If they're now turning the clock backward in winter where you are, go ask the people responsible for that why they're doing that. Guy Harris (talk) 20:34, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
 * What country are you living in? 2601:647:4000:12E0:4080:57E2:82F1:8E56 (talk) 03:26, 4 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I got it backwards - but so did the previous commentator (whose IP address is geolocated as being in the same city as the one your IP address is geolocated as being in; if you know the previous commentator, you might want to inform them that the clock wasn't set forward in winter in 2014), when they said "9 years ago in 2014, it used to be that the clock gets set forward one hour for winter, so 9AM summer time becomes 10AM winter time". It's never been the case that clocks ware turned forward in the winter. Guy Harris (talk) 05:56, 4 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Clocks were turned forward for the winter, which is how students can play outside at 3PM winter time, which is 2PM summer time, instead of 4PM summer time. 2601:647:4000:12E0:8852:CD02:F226:FD38 (talk) 01:17, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
 * What I see is a whole lotta talking past one another here. What you just said is, I believe, the opposite of the way DST works. The memory aid for those of us here in the northern hemisphere, at least in the US, is "Spring forward, Fall back". At the beginning of DST (in the Spring), clocks are moved forward to the following hour. Clicks are turned back to the preceding hour when DST ends in the Fall. This means effectively that after DST has ended in a given year and before it starts again the following year, the light available at 3 pm per the clock is approximately the light that would be available at 2 4 pm DST.  General Ization  Talk  01:29, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
 * The clock is moved forward for the winter, so that the sunlight at 4PM winter time, is that of 3PM summer time, and not 5PM summer time. Sun sets earlier in the winter. 2601:647:4000:12E0:8852:CD02:F226:FD38 (talk) 01:30, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

"The clock is moved forward for the winter" is using "is moved forward" in a fashion other than "is turned from its current time to a later time". If, for example, the clock is at 2:00, it is turned from 2:00 to 1:00 for "winter time" and from 2:00 to 3:00 for "summer time". Note that "winter time" may begin at some time in the autumn/fall and end at some time in the spring, and "summer time" may begin at some time in the spring and end at some time in the autumn/fall. I use "winter time" and "summer time" to avoid terminological issues, e.g. locations that use "summer time" rather than "daylight saving time" and locations that observe "standard time" during what is usually called "summer time" or "daylight saving time" rather than what is usually called "standard time".

That was true in 2014 and is true now. It has never been the case, in any location that the clock was changed from 2:00 to 3:00 in the summer. Guy Harris (talk) 06:16, 5 December 2022 (UTC)


 * The sun sets earlier in the winter, so to prepare for winter, the clock is set forward from 9AM to 10AM in the Fall. This way, when it's 5PM winter time, it's actually 4PM summer time. Sometime in the past eight years, it became that the clock was set backward for the winter, so that 5PM during winter becomes 6PM during summer. 2601:647:4000:12E0:FC76:FC0C:D3C2:922A (talk) 03:36, 7 December 2022 (UTC)
 * "The sun sets earlier in the winter" True.
 * "so to prepare for winter, the clock is set forward from 9AM to 10AM in the Fall" False. It has never been the case that the clock is advanced by one hour in the winter (and it doesn't happen at 9AM, it normally happens earlier in the morning on the day that the time change is done).
 * "This way, when it's 5PM winter time, it's actually 4PM summer time" False. If you have two locations in the same time zone, with one observing DST and one not observing DST (such as US states in the Mountain Time Zone other than Arizona, or the Navajo Nation, vs. Arizona), if, during DST, it's 4PM in the part that observes DST, it's 3PM in the part that doesn't observe DST.
 * "Sometime in the past eight years, it became that the clock was set backward for the winter, so that 5PM during winter becomes 6PM during summer." False. There was no such change ever; it's always been the case that the clock was set backward in the winter.
 * For the United States, for example, here's Public Law 89-387, the Uniform Time Act of 1966, which states that
 * "During the period commencing at 2 o'clock antemeridian on the last Sunday in April of each year and ending at 2 o'clock on the last Sunday in October of each year, the standard time of each zone established by the Act of March 19, 1918 (15 U.S.C. 261-264), as modified by the Act of March 4, 1921 (15 U.S.C. 265), shall be advanced one hour..."


 * so the clocks are turned forward in spring and backward in autumn/fall; the only changes since 1966, which is 56 years ago, have been to the start and end dates of daylight saving time.
 * So either you know that's true, in which case you're trolling, or you genuinely believe what yu're saying, in which case you're confused. Regardless of which is the case, all further claims on your part that clocks were ever turned forward in autumn/fall will, quite appropriately, be rejected as nonsense and ignored, and all changes to Wikipedia articles that incorporate the notion of clockes being turned forward will, quite appropriately, be reverted. Guy Harris (talk) 06:24, 7 December 2022 (UTC)
 * The clocks are advanced forward one hour for winter, and advanced backward one hour for summer. So to prepare for winter, 9AM becomes 10AM, and the sunlight at 6PM Winter time is the amount of sunlight at 5PM Summer time, because the sun sets earlier during winter. It has been like that more than eight years ago, at least. 2601:647:4000:12E0:7C48:FC8:69A8:F6E (talk) 05:06, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
 * No, as we have already told you, that is not what the clocks do. There's no point in continuing this, I'm collapsing the thread. Meters (talk) 06:07, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

Morocco
Article states that, during Ramadan, Morocco's "civil clocks observe Western European Time (UTC+00:00, which geographically overlaps most of the nation)". That doesn't seem a helpful wording: UTC is solar time at 0deg, so I'd argue that the concept of 'overlapping with a timezone' doesn't make much sense. In fact, the whole of Morocco is west of 0deg .. and the country is anyway UTC+1 for most of the year. The article does not make it clear why being in an 'overlapping' timezone during Ramadan and UTC+1 the rest of the time makes sense / has been decided. 196.74.106.3 (talk) 13:38, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Agree, Morocco just keeps its own Morocco time at UTC+ 1 and 'Ramadan time' UTC +0. Unsure how to deal with that though. Ex nihil  (talk) 14:03, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

Greenland
Greenland no longer observes DST. Also, West Greenland have moved from UTC-3 to UTC-2 permanently.

Primary source: Government of Greenland (in Danish) https://naalakkersuisut.gl/Nyheder/2023/03/2403_sommertid?sc_lang=da and (In Greenlandic) https://naalakkersuisut.gl/Nyheder/2023/03/2403_sommertid?sc_lang=kl-GL

Other sources: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-03-24/greenland-keeps-daylight-saving-time-permanently-changing-its-time-zone#xj4y7vzkg https://www.timeanddate.com/news/time/greenland-change-timezone.html https://visitgreenland.com/new-time-zone/ ThatGuyOnline (talk) 16:51, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

An idea for a section: obsoleteness
I think the article needs a paragraph on how obsolete the daylight saving is in XXI century, compared to XIX-XX century of industrialization.

The reason is simple: almost every village has lampposts.

This way, the article will reflect the modern opposition of daylight saving shifts. However, it will also reflect how daylight saving had to exist in the world, where electric lamps were stil a novelty and not something taken for granted. 81.89.66.133 (talk) 08:19, 13 February 2024 (UTC)