Talk:Diarmait mac Cerbaill

Move ?
Diarmaid mac Cearbhaill seems to be unusual and old-fashioned according to Google Books. The normal version seems to be Diarmait mac Cerbaill (e.g. Frank Byrne, the RIA's history, Oxford History of Ireland, and so on). This appears to be uncontroversial, but I'm more than willing to open a requested move if there is any doubt. Angus McLellan (Talk) 12:26, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Agree. Calgacus (ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) 17:58, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Agree. I respect Calgacus' views on this sort of thing. Evertype 09:39, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Unsure. The current title looks like the modern Irish spelling, while "Diarmait mac Cerbaill" would be the Old Irish form. If the Old Irish form is preferred by historians, go with it, but I just thought I'd clarify which is "old-fashioned". --Nicknack009 09:51, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

To clarify, it's not normal to use Middle or Modern Irish orthography for historical people much before the Normans these last 30 years and more. It may have been in the early C20th and before. Byrne's Irish Kings and High Kings and the Royal Irish Academy's multivolume New History of Ireland follow this route, same for the Oxford History of Ireland, although they disagree slightly on the use of diacritics, but fortunately we don't have any here. I don't know what the customary route is for definitely legendary people, but Diarmaid/Diarmait isn't one of those. There's a lot of suspiciously vivid detail in the stories about him, but there's not any doubt that he existed. A nice comparative test is to compare the Google Books results for "Aed Finnliath" and "Aed Findliath", the modern variants, and then replace Aed by Aedh. It's not so much the number of hits as their ages. Hope this helps, Angus McLellan (Talk) 11:06, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

dermot
I searched 'Dermot' and was redirected to this page. Shouldn't it lead to to a disambig page with the (as yaet uncreated) page describing the name. Stanstaple (talk)


 * Quite right, so I redirected Dermot to Diarmaid. Angus McLellan (Talk) 17:59, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Notes for expansion

 * De Paor, Ireland and Early Europe, 73-4 (gen. poss. fictitious, hurrah!), 111, 138, 184
 * Wiley, Cycles of the Kings
 * Orgguin Trí Mac Díarmata mic Cerbaill
 * Aided Díarmata meic Cerbaill (1)
 * Aided Díarmata meic Cerbaill (2)
 * Aní día fil manchine Cloinde Colmáin Síl Aodha Sláine do Chlúain
 * Comlond Díarmata meic Cerbaill fri Rúadán
 * Genemain Áedo Sláine
 * Charles-Edwards, 294-7, 520 (k. Ireland/Connachta), 527 (burial).
 * Sharpe, 13-4, 60-2, I.14, I.36, n59, 95, 157, 358
 * Picard, http://lamop.univ-paris1.fr/W3/auxerre/Picard06.pdf
 * TLH The Settling of the Manor of Tara
 * IA
 * Stokes, Lismore, Life of Ciaran, xvii-xix, 276
 * Strokes, Tripartite Life, 89
 * Stokes, Moling, 40ff (gsons?)
 * Meyer, Colman, 78 (gsons?)
 * Plummer, Lives, II, 85-87 & 292 (gsons?)
 * I need a reference that remarks on Diarmait's patronym. Where is Diarmait mac Fergusso?
 * ODNB?

Should be more. Angus McLellan (Talk) 00:39, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

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