Talk:Discovery Communications headquarters hostage crisis

fine!
i think the article is fine! unlock it and keep it going! :) Djshaver (talk) 13:00, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Link to Manifesto
Here's a link to Mr. Lee's Manifesto, apparently on his web page: http://www.savetheplanetprotest.com/ --Greendogo (talk) 21:12, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Added a link in the external links section. --Greendogo (talk) 21:21, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
 * It seems that DotEasy has taken the site down, now you just get a link to their hosting sign up page. 66.44.76.99 (talk) 22:18, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I have a back up on my hard drive. Should I upload it to Wikipedia or WikiSource or somewhere else? --Greendogo (talk) 22:35, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
 * If it's not the same as http://paste.pocoo.org/raw/257373/, please upload it somewhere, anywhere. It may not be permissible to have it on Wikipedia just yet due to copyright reasons. --AB (talk) 22:58, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
 * The only difference is that it has the original HTML format found on James Lee's website. It can be downloaded here, and re-uploaded somewhere that it can be viewed with this formatting. Other than the formatting, however, there is no difference (I think). Here's a link to the document --Greendogo (talk) 23:06, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Alright, I took the time to actually upload it so that we can link it in the article - Here's the link to the manifesto on Google Documents --Greendogo (talk) 23:15, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Lee's demands can [also] be read here. -- noosph e re 22:52, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

The interesting thing about the original html is you can see he had completed the document on July 18, 2010. 174.89.63.153 (talk) 22:02, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from 97.92.40.86, 1 September 2010
editsemiprotected

Gunman is dead -- http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38957020/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

Yes he is. http://livefeed.hollywoodreporter.com/2010/09/live-video-feed-of-discovery-hostage-situation.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yesfor776 (talk • contribs) 21:35, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

97.92.40.86 (talk) 21:30, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Done by a couple of people. C628 (talk) 21:57, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Unblock the page
Unlock the page now. --188.23.191.200 (talk) 22:08, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
 * If you have suggestions on how to improve the page, go ahead and post them here so someone can put it in the article. Reach Out to the Truth 23:05, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
 * "During a protest outside the Discovery Channel's building in February of 2008, Lee carried a sign and paid homeless people to carry signs. At one point, Lee threw money into the air. He was held in jail for two weeks and given a psychiatric evaluation. He was charged with disorderly conduct, sentenced to six months probation and fined $500. He was ordered to stay at least 500 feet from the Discovery Channel's building. Lee said he began his activist campaign after being laid off from his job." Gunman's Environmental Grudges Well Known Before Discovery Channel Hostage Standoff, Jana Winter, September 1, 2010, FoxNews.com, url=http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/09/01/james-jay-lee/
 * "According to the Los Angeles Times, Lee may have served 46 days in jail." Discovery Channel hostage crisis ends with gunman's death, Los Angeles Times, September 2, 2010 url=http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-discovery-hostages-20100902,0,4192082.story 180.25.116.202 (talk) 09:40, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
 * It seems highly relevant to me that he attempted to hold a peaceful protest (which used to be legal in the United States), but was arrested, jailed, fined and sentenced to probation, before he went postal. Why doesn't the article reflect this? I've given two reliable, mainstream news sources above that point this out. 180.25.116.202 (talk) 12:11, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
 * "It turned out that Lee was armed with two starter pistols, and not with handguns." Discovery Channel attacker convicted of smuggling immigrant in 2003, CNN, September 3, 2010, url=http://edition.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/09/03/maryland.discovery.channel/ 180.25.116.202 (talk) 12:35, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
 * The article is not being updated and there are several untrue and misleading statements that are not being corrected.
 * He did not enter the building with a handgun - it was a starter pistol that did not fire bullets: http://edition.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/09/03/maryland.discovery.channel/
 * He was sentenced to 60 days in jail (which was reduced to 14 days of time served) for what was apparently a peaceful and legal protest. He was also given a $500 fine, was sentenced to supervised probation, and given a restraining order. He was arrested on the sixth day of the protest. http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/38970856/ns/today-entertainment/
 * Someone please update. 180.25.116.202 (talk) 12:29, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
 * The article still does not mention that his attempt at peaceful protest resulted in a sentence of 60 days in jail, reduced to 14 days of jail time served. Seems notable. Why isn't it being included? As it stands, it misleads the reader to believe that he was not harshly punished, but was let off with just probation. Seems intentionally misleading. 180.25.116.202 (talk) 13:41, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
 * And why was he even arrested? I've read that he was initially charged with littering, but that was dropped, then they charged him with disorderly conduct for throwing money in the air. A sentence of 60 days in jail, a fine, supervised probation and a restraining order for throwing money in the air? You gotta be kidding! Did he even have a lawyer? 180.25.116.202 (talk) 13:53, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Screenshot of Lee's MySpace page
Lee's MySpace page has apparently been taken down. But here is a screenshot of the first page in his "Protest at the Discovery Channel" forum topic. -- noosph e re 22:47, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Proposal to rename article
I was thinking it would be better to rename the article simply "Discovery Communications headquarters hostage crisis" rather than having "2010" at the front. Since this is the only article detailing a hostage crisis for Discovery, it doesn't differentiate from a hostage crisis that took place say in 2009 or 2008. '' conman33 (. . .talk)  00:00, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Having the year first in the article title is Wiki standard for these kind of articles. Heroeswithmetaphors (talk) 03:06, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Ethnicity
Do we have a source that states whether he was Chinese-American or Korean-American? Heroeswithmetaphors (talk) 03:23, 2 September 2010 (UTC)


 * http://www.koreadaily.com/news/read.asp?art_id=1080774 (in Korean) calls him '한국계' (of Korean descent) in the title and first paragraph, and says in the last paragraph that he was born to a Korean father and a Japanese mother, according to police investigation ('경찰 조사 결과 이씨는 한국인 아버지와 일본인 어머니 사이에 태어났다.'). Cgkm (talk) 06:40, 2 September 2010 (UTC)


 * White American should not silly impress that the Asian gunner every shooting case in USA must be ethnic Chinese! James Jay Lee is Korean-Japanese American, no buiness with Chinese. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.188.90.194 (talk) 04:54, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Chinese should not silly impress to use Babelfish to translate their angry rants. Kafziel Complaint Department 06:56, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

WP:BOLDITIS
Please make the article conform to MOS:BOLDTITLE (section on descriptive titles). And no, I will not tell you how to word it. Just accept the sensible rule laid out in the MoS. --87.79.161.210 (talk) 13:12, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Good idea. Done! Heroeswithmetaphors (talk) 02:46, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Cirwin01, 2 September 2010
editsemiprotected

Before it disappeared because of media bias, I was able to salvage Lee's rant from google's cache. Here it is:



Cirwin01 (talk) 14:20, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Need a respectable reference for this request! Also, section this should go in. Also, this is likely an exact copy of what you found, needs to be summarised in your own words. Thanks. -- Crazysane (T/C\D) 14:26, 2 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Please do not post the entire thing here, unless we know otherwise, that material is copyrighted (who the copyright goes to now he's dead I'm not sure) and we can't simply dump it wholesale here. --Cameron Scott (talk) 15:19, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Twitpic photo - is it really the gunman?
That Twitpic linked in footnote 11 has, on some news sites, been corrected to say it is actually a photo of a plainclothes law enforcement officer. This article suggests it definitely is a photo of Lee. Do we know that for sure? BK DC (talk) 15:17, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Directs links to eco-terrorism, an eco-fascism and belief in "global warming" need to be more explicit.
Lee was inspired in his opinions by the works of Daniel Quinn and former US Vice President Al Gore's documentary An Inconvenient Truth[10]. <= The source that this line cites makes no mention about any of Lee's inspirations and should be deleted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stupidlazybum (talk • contribs) 19:06, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

The article should be make it much more clear that James Lee was an eco-terrorist, an eco-fascist and who believed in "global warming".

For example, the article should link to the Earth Liberation Front (ELF) article in the "See Also" section: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Liberation_Front

There have also been other well documented cases of violence done in the name of the "global warming" (carbon tax) fraud: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/argentina/7344329/Baby-survives-parents-global-warming-suicide-pact.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.11.186.64 (talk) 16:59, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Link to shows in question
I think this could be improved if the page linked to the shows which *specifically* were the cause of the rage, such as Kate Plus 8. See http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100902/ap_on_en_tv/us_discovery_channel_gunman. 72.207.237.162 (talk) 19:51, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Korean language sources
These online Korean language sources may be of use: Heroeswithmetaphors (talk) 03:31, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
 * JoongAng Ilbo USA: 디스커버리 방송사 건물내 인질극 범인, 결국 총격 받고 숨져 09.01.10
 * Korea Times: 디스커버리 방송국 인질극 제임스 리씨는… 2010-09-02
 * Chosun Ilbo USA: 제임스 리, 방송국서 "무장 인질극" 2010-09-02
 * MSN Korea: 제임스리 2008년 디스커버리 앞에서 1인시위 2010-09-03
 * YTN: 미국 방송국 인질범 제임스 리, 한국계로 밝혀져 2010-09-03
 * Yahoo! Korea: 제임스리 2008년 디스커버리 앞에서 1인시위 2010년 09월 03일
 * JoongAng Ilbo: 한국계, 대낮 무장인질극 벌이다 사살 2010.09.02

Terrorism, lol
What a joke! Americans are so incredibly stupid. This had nothing to do with terrorist acts. I would love someone look up sources to criticize that idiotic decision, so that the stupidity could be explained in the article! --82.215.220.200 (talk) 13:52, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

'''This is not a forum for general discussion. ''' No one cares what your opinions are. Does it agitate you that he was a left-wing eco terrorist? 12.129.136.5 (talk) 01:48, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Central Time
I edited out the references to Central Time under the Incident heading, where times of key events were given. Silver Spring, Maryland is in the Eastern Time Zone so I'm unsure why the equivalent central time was in parentheses. Perhaps it was someone's idea of a television-related joke? 70.26.138.50 (talk) 18:53, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Merger proposal
This was recommended by an IP editor, but it does not appear the talk section was created or the destination page tagged.

PeterWesco (talk) 17:43, 20 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Support merge The source, Savetheplanetprotest.com is not independently notable aside from its involvement in this one event. There's not a great deal of content to merge, so even a redirect might suffice. --Colapeninsula (talk) 15:03, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

RfC
An RfC: Which descriptor, if any, can be added in front of Southern Poverty Law Center when referenced in other articles? has been posted at the Southern Poverty Law Center talk page. Your participation is welcomed. – MrX 16:39, 22 September 2012 (UTC)