Talk:Donna Shalala/Archive 1

University of Miami: More than just the strike
I'm sure that more can be said about Shalala's tenure at UM over the past five years, no? The strike is recent news on everyone's mind, but it shouldn't take over this article. I say that as someone who has criticized Shalala in other settings. She's also been central to raising a billion dollars for the university. When I have time, perhaps I'll work on developing such information. Meanwhile, surely there are editors out there who could fill in this picture. This section is really a stub at this point. Universitytruth 22:22, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

=
== 1/3 of the university of miami section is about football? the article is disgruntled tailgater's thinly-veiled attempt to vent their frustrations as a fan. what a joke.

Editor is biased or just making things up?
"Shalala's leadership ... has been unremarkable and a tad bit controversial." citation?

"Under her leadership, however, the university has failed to progress in its academic standing among U.S. colleges and universities." Actually this is backwards, in the US News & WR, UM has gone up every year since 2001 ... facts, please.

"The move from 65th in US News to 54th is the biggest jump in the shortest period in American history. The writer is clearly biased!"

"It continues to be ranked between the 50th and 60th most respected private universities..." No - among most accredited universities ... much much higher among private universities

"Athletic programs, which are important for generating national attention, prestige and alumni giving and other funds" Again, your guess, or fact?

"... in fact, the university's football team, once considered a dynasty in the 1980s and 1990s, has floundered under Shalala's leadership..." Hello? a national champoinship, and 2 other BCS bowl game visits?

The editor has a clear bias of opinion against Shalala.


 * I agree that this article has serious POV problems with respect to the University of Miami section, some of which are blatant lies/mistruths. As you stated, UM has gone up in the rankings every year since Shalala became president in 2001.  In 2001, I believe the University was ranked #67 in the rankings.  As of this year, it's at #54, which is a considerable gain in a relatively short period of time.  Once you get to the top 60 or so universities, the rankings are very static and most universities stay within a couple of spots for years and years.  She also led the Momentum Campaign, which raised over $1B for the University, not to mention she's overseen the renovation of Richter, the building of the Convocation Center, the building of University Village, the construction of a number of parking garages on campus, the renovation of Mark Light Field, and now the renovation of the University Center.  It's like night and day between her presidency and that of Foote.  This article ignores all that and contains several blatant lies.  I'm slapping a POV tag on here.  I'd correct this article myslef, but I just don't have the considerable time it would take to fix this article.  One final problem, though, is that this is a woman who served in a presidential cabinet (as well as served as chancellor of two other major universities), yet the section on UM completely dwarfs her political career.  Some perspective, please.-PassionoftheDamon 08:31, 30 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I will try to incorporate some of the UM facts added. If the person who has these could add sources for them, that would be helpful.  Some of them might also be appropriate for the UM pate itself.  MiamiDolphins3 15:48, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

University of Miami Football
This needs some serious clean-up and citations -- as-written it is non-npov and far from up to standards.

I move for total removal of this section. How the hell is football pertinent to a bio on Donna Shalala? If it's that important, this information should go on a page for the team. Wikiterra 05:11, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

My thoughts exactly. Nonsense for this page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.171.150.84 (talk) 23:15, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Religion
On the mini-bar thing she is listed as Cathlic but in the article she is jewish. Which one is she...--Levineps 10:26, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
 * What source is the claim based on that she is Jewish (not Catholic) and her middle name is Esther (not Edna)? 128.214.205.4 11:04, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
 * What relevance does this have? I mean, if it were relevant, we'd know. elpincha 22:14, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Shalala is a Maronite Christian and speaks Aramaic, since the Maronite Christian mass is in Aramaic.

Right Wing Hit Job
The section "Controversy surrounding President Bush's appointment" is clearly the work of a right wing nutjob seeking to make an editorial comment on Secretary Shalala. The section has been removed.
 * I've removed it from the article, and put it below. It's poorly sourced (just a link to a gripe site), obviously not a neutral point of view, a cut-and-paste from the same screed by the same user over here, and on top of all that only marginally relevant.  Onca12, please do not re-add this item without first discussing it here and explaining why you think it meets the requirements of WP:SOURCE, WP:NPOV, and WP:LIVING.  Thanks.  --TotoBaggins 13:22, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Don't assume that because it's an attack on Ms. Shalala that it's necessarily "right wing" in origin -- take off your political blinders; not everything is left vs. right. The real target of the attack is Lennar, and the rant (which has also been posted on blog comments elsewhere on the Net) seems to originate with one Mike Morgan, a Florida broker who's been conducting an internet war with Lennar for some time now. Lennar sued him for misuse of Lennar's trademark last year, and interestingly, a gripe site that he set up (defective-homes.net) now seems to be owned by Lennar. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.251.53.131 (talk) 01:10, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Constrovery Concerning President Bush's Appointment (preserved for reference)
Dr. Shalala sits on the Board of Directors of Lennar Corporation, the nation's third larges home builder. In this position, she has influence over the actions of Lennar Corporation. As noted on the website www.Lennar-Homes.info Lennar Corporation has issues with building and delivery of defective homes. Dr. Shalala refuses to address these issues, as Lennar Corporation turns the American Dream into the American Nightmare for thousands of American. Clear evidence of Lennar's defective homes is documented at http://www.Lennar-Homes.info

As a Board Member, Shalala is compensated by Lennar Corporation, and the University of Miami received a $100 million donation from the Miller family to rename the medical school to the Leonard Miller School of Medicine. It becomes clear that Shalala puts personal financial gain and recognition over the interests of American homeowners. She will do the same in her position on the President's commission to investigate our nation's military and veteran hospitals.

It is interesting to note that Shalala is teamed up with Senator Bob Dole on this project. Senator Dole's wife, when she was on the Federal Trade Commission, state: " . . . for too many Americans, the dream home has turned into a nightmare. You know as well as I do that as families move into their own little Garden of Eden, more and more are finding the apple full of worms. As a result, some homebuyers believe they are being bilked for thousands of dollars, and they are expressing not only anguish but outrage. Shoddy building practices can be concealed from many purchasers who cannot be expected to have the technical expertise to evaluate the structural soundness of a home or the quality of electrical, plumbing, or air conditioning systems…The patience of the American consumer is rapidly running out.  . . . Consumers are demanding more protection from the government, not LESS. The consumer movement is no longer made up of small bands of activists with no troops standing behind them; the consumer movement is now part of our culture – it embraces every one of us. And it will not be denied over an issue so fundamental as decent housing. . ."

This statement was made in 1979, but nothing has changed, and Shalala's position on the Board of Lennar has demonstrated her lack of empathy and respect for the American public. President Bush should clearly remove her from her current appointment on the commission to address problems in our military and veteran hospitals.

Football Section
Does anybody really think the football section is legitimate and should stay? I second the above motion for elimination


 * Yes, I believe it absolutely should stay. While there was some momentum going into the 2003 season (before she actually assumed the Presidency), the program has lost its national stature under her leadership, failing to compete in a BCS bowl game any of the remaining years and continuing to deterioriate further in 2006, to a 6-6 record.  2007, unfortunately, looks no better, with a 51-13 loss in Oklahoma.  Other than the players, the responsibility for the program's success or failure falls with the athletic director and university President.  The university President hires and fires head coaches, allocates budget money to programs, sets the tempo and culture for the program, and has other influential input.  Plus, this was the single most successful program of the past 30 years, as noted, and it's now become just another program, with very mediocre records and a loss of its national stature.  In fact, one might go further to say that the demise of this once superb program is the thing for which she is best known, given that the school has a so-so academic reputation but was unmatched in football.  At least a paragraph should be afforded this and also her apparent inability to reach terms with the Orange Bowl, which will now lead to the destruction of one of football's most recognizable and storied stadiums.  MiamiDolphins3 23:35, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

I think the article should also mention her role in Miami (and Va Tech & BC) moving to the ACC. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Keithw84 (talk • contribs) 06:06, 11 November 2007 (UTC)


 * The demise of UM's football program (once a dynasty) is the single most media-covered development at UM since her arrival, and she is responsible for the program and, in fact, fired a reasonably successful coach, replacing him with one ranked the worst Division I coach by Sporting News. The program has not finished in the top 25 since and has fallen from national prominence for the first time since the 1980s.  MiamiDolphins3 (talk) 05:01, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Endowment
Also, I do not understand how her page can indicate that they are ahead of schedule of a $1.25 billion endowment campaign when the main page indictates they have only $820 million, the vast majority of which must have existed prior to her arrival. Seems the main page number is inaccurate, or the description of the endowment's "success" under her is exaggerated. This isn't my specialty, so I'll leave it to others to figure out, but the numbers are totally inconsistent. MiamiDolphins3 23:35, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

NPOV
Adding NPOV template until this article is cleaned up. TrinityClare (talk) 17:52, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Can you please be more specific about the alleged POV issues? Exactly what needs to be cleaned up?  --ElKevbo (talk) 18:25, 3 April 2008 (UTC)


 * "...Shalala frequently drew criticism for her positions, which were seen by some as too liberal." And by others as too conservative. Why single out one direction of criticism? Shouldn't we lose that last clause? And wouldn't this be strengthened by citing specific criticisms from sources that are generally seen as speaking for sectors of the electorate? - Jmabel | Talk 19:26, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Other than that, and that we could use better sourcing about the janitors' strike, it looks like everything problematic was simply removed. And neither of these things I've mentioned merits an NPOV tag. I'd be all for removing the tag. - Jmabel | Talk 20:21, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Editors have been appropriately brutal in removing the poorly sourced and often blatantly-offensive materials.  --ElKevbo (talk) 20:28, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Mansion section
After trying to make it more accurate and neutral I finally deleted a poorly written and non-neutral section about the NYT profile of the subject's residence. That profile is already mentioned in the strike section. The profile appears to be a minor puff piece, and giving it as much space as the subject's entire 8-year cabinet career was very excessive. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 08:29, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Strike
I've re-written the strike section to eliminate less relevant material to and being the section into line with the relative lengths of other sections. I also found a better source - it had previously included a blog and an opinion column as sources. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 02:39, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Detained by Israel
"A former secretary of the U.S. Health and Human Services Department says she was interrogated at the Ben-Gurion International Airport in Israel... Shalala was delayed as she was leaving Israel with security questions and a luggage search that took nearly 3 hours."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100808/ap_on_re_us/us_university_president_detained —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.85.14.106 (talk) 04:23, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Secretary of Health and Human Services
This section states: "In 1996, Shalala was the first female designated survivor during President Clinton's State of the Union address."

The linked page for "designated survivor" shows "1985 Presidential Inauguration: Margaret Heckler, Secretary of Health and Human Services."

Which is it?
 * Yes, Heckler was first. Removed words "first female" from article.-GroveGuy (talk) 04:26, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

McGinn
There is no mention of the recent controversy involving Colin McGinn, in which Ms. Shalala played a crucial and controversial role.24.19.234.62 (talk) 05:46, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Information.svg Thank you for your suggestion. When you believe an article needs improvement, please feel free to make those changes. Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit almost any article by simply following the  link at the top. The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold in updating pages. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes—they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills.  New contributors are always welcome. You don't even need to log in (although there are many reasons why you might want to). ElKevbo (talk) 14:52, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Is whatever it is even notable? There's nothing in the article Colin McGinn about it either. -- Orange Mike &#x007C;  Talk  17:52, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
 * That's very strange, as it's the biggest news in the discipline. There is a brief mention of it, probably too brief, in Colin McGinn. As with my own field, I think there are very few remaining Wikipedia editors interested in philosophy. This has been a big debate for months now, and was covered in the New York Times the other day. Shalala's role is currently somewhat murky (to me,) since McGinn resigned in lieu of formal proceedings. His defenders allege that Shalala had decided to get rid of him from the moment she heard of the allegations, and that he had no chance for a fair hearing. It's not the highlight of Shalala's career, but it's one of the most significant events in her stint at Miami.24.19.234.62 (talk) 20:43, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

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Designated successor
Comp.arch seems to hint at or suggest that we look at the lists of designated Presidential successors for firsts or precedents. Indeed, had Donna Shalala succeeded to the US Presidency, she would have become US President as an unelected US President. Is this 'distinction' worthy of an article (I don't think so, but let me mention it - and let us consider that possibility)? Is it worthy of a mention in another article?

Does Wikipedia even have articles on unrealized possibilities (such as this)? MaynardClark (talk) 16:30, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

Infobox
I made an edit earlier that was reverted and rightfully so as deleting that much content should have been on the talk page. Currently the infobox for officeholder contains President of the Clinton Foundation, 5th President of the University of Miami, 18th United States Secretary of Health and Human Services, and Chancellor of the University of Wisconsin, Madison. The only of these covered by Template:Infobox officeholder is her tenure as the 18th United States Secretary of Health and Human Services. I think the other three shouldn't be included. The Clinton Foundation is a nonprofit and there is no reason for it to be included so I'm deleting that, but I am a bit more open to the idea of including her university management positions. Personally, I don't think those are in the spirit of being an officeholder especially when one has been the HHS Secretary.--Mpen320 (talk) 23:20, 23 March 2018 (UTC)
 * and redirect to Infobox officeholder. A President/CEO  an office holder. You can see the complete list here. These positions are all officeholders.  Corky  23:46, 23 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Except in the case of people who have held other offices this doesn't hold true. Elizabeth Dole and the American Red Cross is the best example I could find on short notice. Also, just because they redirect doesn't mean it should mix together. It creates a lot of frankly frivilous stuff in the infobox. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mpen320 (talk • contribs)
 * And just because some politicians do have a mix and others don't really isn't a good reason, either. They don't need to just be political offices, they can be others too. Also, sign your comments. Corky  00:34, 24 March 2018 (UTC)