Talk:Douglas Kmiec

Colbert Report appearance
Kmiec appeared on the highly popular television show The Colbert Report with Stephen Colbert, and the video clip of the Colbert-Kmiec conversation quickly became popular for its proposal.

View on family
Kmiec has strongly defended the family as the first vital cell of civilization. His book, Cease-fire on the Family, in the 1990s was an early call for families to avoid getting caught up in the focus on law and politics which he called a "fool's game," when personal attention to the upbringing of one's own children would reap more lasting and direct benefit. Early in the book, Kmiec writes: "Family expectation must match family reality. Families must actually perform their intended function as a source of love and emotional support, respect for others, and the taking of responsibility for actions. Our cultural divisions have been unduly "nationalized," and thus artificially magnified, either through the media or Congressional legislation or Supreme Court opinion. These cultural tensions have become near unbearable as one faction or another has sought to enact morality into law, as if legal enactment or judicial pronouncement would somehow rectify moral shortcoming. While there is always some necessary overlap between law and morality, as law implicitly involves a moral claim by its command of obedience, few of us seem to fully appreciate any longer that law cannot force moral consensus or instill virtue or character."

Why have these been removed? Notability is not a limitation on article content.  Skomorokh   16:37, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Without proper context, its as significant as saying that Kmiec loves dogs. Call it a weight problem if you'd like.--Tznkai (talk) 16:46, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

To do
--Tznkai (talk) 17:10, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Infobox for various awards?
 * Research writings
 * Decide on chronological or subject-matter organization.
 * Fill in gaps in chronology, personal life matters.
 * He's Catholic, this is part of his significance, put it somewhere.
 * Just confirmed by the Senate as Ambassador to Malta, no longer simply nominated

Another To Do, guys ... put in a pronunciation for his surname. ACW (talk) 17:50, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

Information that has been removed due to sourcing issues
I have removed the following the information from the article because the sources do not support it (following WP:BLP). We may be able to find other sources that do support it, however, so I am placing it on the talk page. Awadewit (talk) 16:19, 22 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Thinking that conscientious American Catholics were exploring the same ethical issues raised by the 2008 election as he was, Kmiec wrote, the book Can A Catholic Support Him?: Asking the Big Question About Barack Obama, which was published nationally by the Overlook Press/ Penguin Group. The book became the centerpiece of the Catholics for Obama effort. - To be clear - the part that is under dispute is the first bit and last bit. We might be able to source Kmiec's motivation from the book itself, but we need a good source on "the centerpiece of the Catholics for Obama effort" (it was previously sourced to an unreliable blog). Awadewit (talk) 16:19, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Upon searching LexisNexis and Access World News (News Bank) for the Kmiec's motivation for the writing of the book, I did not find any verification for the above material. I have included in the article what I did find. We just need to find a source for the "centerpiece" bit (if indeed that is true). Awadewit (talk) 01:37, 26 May 2009 (UTC)


 * The campaign announced that Kmiec would tour the country as a campaign surrogate for Barack Obama as part of the Faith, Family and Values Tour with evangelical author Donald Miller and former Indiana Congressman pro-life Democrat Tim Roemer - I've removed this from the article because the source link here, is broken. Perhaps we can try and find another source. Awadewit (talk) 16:24, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I've found a source for the tour and added it. Awadewit (talk) 01:45, 26 May 2009 (UTC)


 * and the inaugural Visiting Distinguished Scholar at the National Constitution Center (with Yale's Akhil Amar) - I didn't see this fact in either of the two basic biographical sources used in the article. Awadewit (talk) 17:03, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I didn't find this in a quick search of LexisNexis, Access World News/News bank, or Google News. However, a longer search may uncover something. Awadewit (talk) 01:47, 26 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Along with Professor Mary Ann Glendon of the Harvard Law School, Kmiec was named by Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney to head the Romney for President Committee on the Courts and the Constitution in 2007. When Glendon was named to be Ambassador to the Vatican by President Bush, Kmiec continued as chair of the Romney committee and before the Governor withdrew from the race, Kmiec had substantial success attracting a long list of leading conservative lawyers to Romney's side. Kmiec praised Romney for addressing the intra-party criticism of Romney's Mormon Faith and helped in the formulation of Romney's major address on the subject. - We need sources for this information. Awadewit (talk) 17:30, 22 May 2009 (UTC)


 * The controversy made news in Catholic communities and blogs before making mainstream press. - The controversy is the denial of Communion. We need a source for this. Awadewit (talk) 18:38, 22 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Kmiec had initially attempted to keep the entire incident confidential so as not to embarrass the Church, mentioning it only to his Pastor emeritus at Our Lady of Malibu in Malibu, California and to a priest friend in the Dominican House in Washington, D.C., since the priest involved was also a member of that religious order. - We need to find a source for this information. Awadewit (talk) 18:42, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Additional concerns

 * The entire "Obama endorsement" section is sourced to articles by Kmiec himself. We need to find some secondary sources that covered his endorsement. Awadewit (talk) 17:35, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I've added a couple but this clearly needs much more work. A survey needs to be done of the newspaper coverage at the time to see what the reaction was. Awadewit (talk) 18:00, 22 May 2009 (UTC)


 * The article clearly needs more secondary sources on the Obama book. Awadewit (talk) 19:01, 22 May 2009 (UTC)


 * We need a page number for this statement: After review, Cardinal Roger Mahony of the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Los Angeles called the action "shameful and indefensible" and asked the priest to write a letter apology to Kmiec - I would feel better if this were sourced to something other than Kmiec's book, anyway. Awadewit (talk) 19:02, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Suggested Revisions with support for inclusion of some of the above material as well as more accurate and complete coverage of both Prop 8 and the issues surrounding the resignation
As the subject of this profile, please accept this as suggested draft; obviously a volunteer biographer should independently and objectively assess the draft, and I submit it here and on the talk pages of recent editors noted above for this purpose. It is important to update as presently the profile that exists is superseded by events. thank you for your thoughtful attention.

Douglas W. Kmiec (born September 24, 1951) is an American legal scholar, author, and U.S. ambassador. He was the Caruso Family Chair and Professor of Constitutional Law at Pepperdine University School of Law. Kmiec came to prominence during the United States presidential election, 2008 when, although a Republican, he endorsed Democrat Barack Obama. In July 2009, he was nominated by President Obama to serve as U.S. Ambassador to Malta. He was confirmed by the Senate and served for close to two years as ambassador to Malta. Kmiec’s foreign service concluded when he challenged the accuracy of a State Department report that characterized his religious writing and speaking as an “outside activity,” and “rebuked” him for it. http://www.maltatoday.com.mt/news/national/us-ambassador-douglas-kmiec-rebuked-by-state-department-for-wasting-time-writing-about Largely understood to have been appointed by Obama to highly Catholic Malta because of his Catholic background, Kmiec argued that the faith references were either wholly personal and thus within the religious freedom due to all or related to a specific “mandate” given to him by President Obama to evaluate opportunities for faith-based or inter-faith diplomacy and further that the report found his embassy to be well-run and in good order. > http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/kmiec-faces-friendly-fire. An examination by the LA Times found that Kmiec had been consistently “harassed” by State Department officials for his writing and speaking about faith. http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20110424/local/American-Ambassador-told-to-leave-next-month.362015 Thus,  Kmiec found everything from his plans for a conference evaluating faith-based methods of evaluating conflict resolution to writing and speaking, though occasionally by speaking impromptu or from notes, he found it possible to include some faith reference, as when he opened and co-sponsored an exhibit to Anne Frank. http://www.youtube.com/user/usembmalta

That the White House anticipated Kmiec having this special portfolio was evident at Kmiec’s swearing in where he was introduced by Joshua DuBois, the President’s director of the White House Office on Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships. http://articles.latimes.com/2011/apr/13/opinion/la-oe-0413-rutten-20110413, > >Arguing that he had been subjected to a categorical pre-clearance requirement for all speaking and writing which frequently minimized his faith references or told him to forego a fully-planned conference on inter-faith diplomacy, Kmiec resigned his post effective August 15, 2011. Hoping the President might confirm his mandate for inter-faith diplomacy, the President’s advisor DuBois instead chose to have the State Department handle Kmiec’s offered resignation. http://www.independent.com.mt/news.asp?newsitemid=124042 They did, claiming incongruously that the President accepted Kmiec’s resignation. The State Department then moved his departure up two and half months to May 31, 2011, which effectively prevented the ambassador from presiding over the opening of a new embassy compound which Kmiec saw to completion after it fallen a year or more behind its construction time-table during the Bush-Obama transition. (as noted in IG report, itself) Contents [hide] •	1 Education and career •	2 Scholarship and legal thought o	2.1 Proposition 8 •	3 2008 U.S. presidential election and aftermath •	4 Personal life •	5 See also •	6 References

Education and career Kmiec received his undergraduate degree with honors from Northwestern University in 1973 and his Juris Doctor (J.D.) from the University of Southern California in 1976. He was a member of the school's law review and was awarded the Legion Lex Commencement Prize for Legal Writing.[1] Kmiec was a member of the faculty at Valparaiso University School of Law, then taught at Notre Dame Law School from 1980 to 1999, with several leaves to serve in the Office of Legal Counsel for Presidents Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush. At Notre Dame, he directed the Thomas White Center on Law & Government and founded the Notre Dame Journal of Law, Ethics & Public Policy. From 2001 to 2003, Kmiec was the Dean and St. Thomas More Professor of the law school at the Catholic University of America. Following his Catholic University of America deanship, Kmiec assumed the endowed chair in constitutional law at Pepperdine University School of Law.[2] Kmiec also teaches at the Pepperdine University School of Public Policy.[3] Scholarship and legal thought Dean Douglas W. Kmiec at Catholic University of America in Washington, D.C. Kmiec has been a White House Fellow and a Distinguished Fulbright Scholar on the Constitution in Asia. His published works include The Attorney General's Lawyer (1992), three books on the American Constitution, a two-volume legal treatise, related books, and hundreds of published articles and essays. He is a frequent guest in the media on programs such as PBS's NewsHour, Meet the Press, and NPR, analyzing constitutional questions. He writes the Faith and Precedent column for the Catholic News Service.[1] When asked what it "mean[s] to teach within a Catholic framework", Kmiec responded: Just consider the first year course in contracts. The Catholic emphasis of the study of this course explores not just how contracts are formed or what remedies exist for breach, but also the justice of keeping one’s promises and paying a just or family wage, for example. By contrast, most law schools have become entirely utilitarian and consequentialist – believing that ends justify means – and they’ve cast aside first principles, the most prominent of which is the belief that moral reality can be known and understood by men and women. Although our students are not all Catholic, they all have a sincere desire to explore the relationship of faith and law, and to be of service through the legal profession.[2] Proposition 8 Days before the arguments in front of the Supreme Court of California on Proposition 8, the amendment to the state constitution which limited marriage to opposite-sex couples, Kmiec and his colleague Shelley Ross Saxer, co-wrote an editorial in the San Francisco Chronicle. They opened by explaining "One of us (Saxer) opposed Prop. 8 for civil rights reasons; Kmiec supported it for reasons of religious liberty. Today, both of us believe the arguments in support of Prop. 8 fail each of these interests."[4] They offer two reasons for "resisting" Proposition 8: 1) it could be read too broadly; 2) it ignores the different religious practices of the citizenry. "Marriage", they argue, "is of religious origin; it should remain there."[4] Therefore, in order to retain the separation of church and state, they suggest that the state use consistent terminology for all couples, gay and straight, extending the same bundle of secular rights. If a couple wanted "marriage," Proposition 8 should prevent the state from dealing with the topic, which means it could again become the sole province of religious bodies.[4] Of this view, Time wrote: "The Pepperdine idea puts into a play a new way of thinking — and whether it's part of the court's decision in the Prop 8 case or whether it makes its way into a new referendum, the idea of getting governments out of the marriage business offers a creative way of thinking about a problem that is otherwise likely to be around for a long, long time.”[5] Colbert Report appearance Conservatives perceived Kmiec’s Proposition 8 approach to be more evidence of his apostasy. Kmiec saw it differently, responding that unless all people were afforded civil equality by the government, courts would be unwilling to draw distinctions between same-sex and other couples. While Kmiec argued for a distinction to be drawn between heterosexual and homosexual couples on the basis of procreation, he conceded that once a court finds same-sex relationships to require equal treatment, it would not be long before a church or other religious body not performing same-sex ceremonies or hiring same-sex couples in religious schools would be denied charitable tax exemptions and donations to them would no longer be deductible. Moreover, Kmiec reasoned, different religious traditions view same-sex relationships differently, so the way to keep the need for civil equality from trumping religious differences was to keep the government out of the marriage business altogether. Individual religious bodies would then have free exercise of religion principles to protect them from a mandate to do that which doctrine or practice denies. Kmiec appeared on the highly popular television show The Colbert Report with Stephen Colbert, in which the humorist with his pretended conservatism took issue with Kmiec over his book supporting Obama and his and Saxer’s proposal to limit the concept of “marriage” to whatever qualifications religious bodies specified (as distinct from a state granted license or civil union). [1] Colbert in the course of the segment makes (tongue in cheek) the procreative and social case for the family which Kmiec’s writing apart from Proposition 8 would generally affirm. http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jun/16/opinion/oe-kmiec16 [edit] View on family Kmiec has strongly defended the family as the first vital cell of civilization. His book, Cease-fire on the Family,[2] in the 1990s was an early call for families to avoid getting caught up in the focus on law and politics which he called a "fool's game," when personal attention to the upbringing of one's own children would reap more lasting and direct benefit. Early in the book, Kmiec writes:[3] Family expectation must match family reality. Families must actually perform their intended function as a source of love and emotional support, respect for others, and the taking of responsibility for actions. Our cultural divisions have been unduly "nationalized," and thus artificially magnified, either through the media or Congressional legislation or Supreme Court opinion. These cultural tensions have become near unbearable as one faction or another has sought to enact morality into law, as if legal enactment or judicial pronouncement would somehow rectify moral shortcoming. While there is always some necessary overlap between law and morality, as law implicitly involves a moral claim by its command of obedience, few of us seem to fully appreciate any longer that law cannot force moral consensus or instill virtue or character. Thus, unlike some approving or opposing same-sex unions on the basis that they preclude the transmission of moral values to children, http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2008/06/sandefur_on_kmiec_and_gay_marr.php Kmiec refuses to make that argument, falling back on religious bodies to make this moral judgment as part of their control over the definition of marriage. In this way, opposing Proposition 8 allows Kmiec to keep marriage local and not nationalized, presumably lowering cultural disagreement by the lowering the stakes of one or the other judicial determination. http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jun/16/opinion/oe-kmiec16

2008 U.S. presidential election and aftermath Kmiec and then-presidential candidate Barack Obama Kmiec being sworn into office as United States Ambassador to Malta by Justice Samuel Alito Further information: United States presidential election, 2008 Although he initially supported Republican Mitt Romney,[6] Kmiec "caused a stir" when he endorsed Democrat Barack Obama in the 2008 presidential election in a piece on Slate.[7] As he explained in an interview with the Chicago Tribune, "One of the things I kept discovering...was that Obama was sounding more Catholic than most Catholics I know."[8] The issues that drew Kmiec's attention were wages, health care, and the cost of the Iraq War.[8] To those fellow Catholics and pro-life advocates who were surprised at his position, he argued that Obama's desire to "alleviate social conditions that correlate with abortion", such as poverty, was convincing.[8] In the endorsement itself, Kmiec explained his disagreements with Obama, especially over the issue of abortion, but indicated that it was time to find common ground on this and other topics. Kmiec opened his piece by praising Obama's "integrity, intelligence, and genuine good will".[9] As a result of endorsing the pro-choice Obama, Kmiec was denied Communion in May 2008 at a Red Mass for Catholic business people in California.[10] Kmiec confirmed the incident with Nina Totenberg, NPR's legal correspondent [11] and E. J. Dionne of The Washington Post wrote a column [10] noting how John Kerry and other Catholic public officials had been threatened with communion denial in 2004 because of their pro-choice position,[12] but the first actual denial was experienced by Kmiec, a Catholic layman.[13] After review, Cardinal Roger Mahony of the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Los Angeles called the action "shameful and indefensible" and asked the priest to write a letter of apology to Kmiec.[14] In the midst of the election, Kmiec proceeded to write Can A Catholic Support Him?: Asking the Big Question About Barack Obama (2008) to explain his support for Senator Obama in light of Catholic principles.[15] The book's introduction was written by West Wing actor Martin Sheen. Sheen and Kmiec did a series of radio and video commentaries for the Matthew 25 network in support of Obama.[16] Kmiec also campaigned for the candidate as part of his "Faith, Family and Values Tour".[17] Obama was invited to speak at Notre Dame's commencement, which stirred controversy due to his pro-choice stance. Kmiec supported Obama speaking at the university[18] and suggested to the administration that they use the speech as an opportunity to discuss the issues on which both sides of the abortion debate already agree: "we both respect life, we both view abortion as a moral tragedy".[19]

In November 2008, Michael Sean Winters of the Catholic magazine America, called Kmiec "the perfect candidate" for United States Ambassador to the Holy See.[20] The Catholic News Agency, citing a Vatican source, has since reported that Kmiec will not become the ambassador "due to his stance on life issues".[21] The official is quoted saying Kmiec's candidacy "is closed" and that "[Kmiec] nailed the last nail in his coffin with his disappointing position on embryonic stem cell research".[21] After David Souter retired from the Supreme Court, Kmiec authored a lead article in the National Catholic weekly, America, making the case for "empathy" as a necessary value in the selection of a nominees for the high court.[22] On July 2, 2009, President Obama nominated Kmiec as Ambassador to Malta.[23] He was confirmed by the senate and has served for over a year as ambassador to Malta. In April of 2011 he was criticized by the Inspector General of the State Department for spending too much time on unofficial duties. In the report, itself, the IG focused on Kmiec’s perception of his mandate to work on inter-faith issues for the President. Indeed, based on prior clearance requirements that deleted most of his references to faith or precluded him from writing about faith issues altogether, Kmiec took the view that this was a criticism of him by some State Department officials for being too willing to discuss religion in public.[24]   Catholic Malta was largely, though not entirely, of the view that Kmiec’s complaint was a principled one and that indeed his approach had brought renewed respect for the United States and its foreign policy. http://ncronline.org/blogs/distinctly-catholic/malta-hearts-kmiec, There is an on-going debate as to the importance of faith in the conduct of foreign policy that pre-dates Kmiec. http://www.americamagazine.org/blog/entry.cfm?blog_id=2&entry_id=4140 After 9/11, President Obama tried to promote mutual respect by a greater, mutual understanding of different faiths, especially Islam. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/04/us/politics/04obama.text.html Former Secretary Albright authored a 2006 book The Mighty and the Almighty on the subject favoring greater attention to faith-based diplomacy as “crucial.” Others argued that faith matters were incompatible with diplomacy and Kmiec should not have been appointed or was property chastised. For its part, the State Department chose not to explain why Kmiec’s faith-based efforts were treated with hostility, but instead pointed out how it promotes religious freedom in China and elsewhere. http://ncronline.org/news/politics/state-department-fires-back-ambassador There was speculation that the Inspector General might be paying Kmiec back for a legal opinion he authored years earlier for President Reagan which reminded the inspectors that their role was an important, but limited one, of rooting out waste, fraud and abuse, rather than second-guessing the wisdom of executive programs or their design under the broad rubric of inquiring into effectiveness. http://books.google.com/books Congress has refused to broaden the IG’s authority so the Kmiec opinion has prevailed to preserve the prerogative of the President to define and redefine job responsibilities, subject to Congressional oversight. In other words, Obama could include faith-based discussion and inquiry into Kmiec’s diplomatic portfolio, and it would not be the IG’s business to say otherwise. Comment of Thomas Coogan, former IG http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20110418/local/obama-accepts-ambassador-kmiec-s-resignation.361125 In an unusual endorsement, Malta’s Foreign Minister strongly praised Kmiec and expressed “disappointment and surprise” over the resignation pointing out that Kmiec’s faith references made him more not less effective. http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20110419/local/US-Ambassador-s-resignation-accepted.361294 Maltese citizens called on President Obama to intervene and prevent the resignation. http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20110424/local/American-Ambassador-told-to-leave-next-month.362015 He resigned his post on April 16, 2011, effective the Feast of the Assumption (August 15, 2011).[25] Personal life Kmiec is married to Carolyn Keenan and together they have five children

Dkmiec (talk) 00:34, 26 April 2011 (UTC)dkmiec


 * Dkmiec, thanks for creating and presenting this draft. It looks like there's a lot of good material there. It will take a bit of time to digest it. I'll make it a personal priority to do so and to integrate as much as possible of it into the biography.   Will Beback    talk    07:44, 26 April 2011 (UTC)


 * To clarify the changes I've made edits that allow a direct comparison of this text to the current article text.   Will Beback    talk    09:52, 26 April 2011 (UTC)


 * I think we need to keep in mind that this is an article about Kmiec, not about the Obama administration. We need to avoid getting off-topic and should instead link to other articles for background, where possible. Another general concern is that the draft appears to rely heavily on opinion blogs and on Maltese news sources that favor the subjects viewpoint. Both are acceptable within limits, but we need to make sure we're not excluding other sources. I assume the Washington Post and New York Times have written about this matter, for example, and they might provide different viewpoints. Further, we need to make sure this does not come across as a special pleading, or a defense (or indictment) of Kmiec. For that reason it would be best to stick with reporting simple facts rather than speculating on motives.   Will Beback    talk    23:18, 26 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Some general thoughts:
 * When working on a biography of a living person, the most important thing for Wikipedia editors is to do no harm. That's enshrined in a core policy: WP:BLP. One of the most important aspects of it is that unsourced or poorly source negative material should be deleted immediately and not restored until it can be brought up to standard. However that policy does not require that editors add anything. The neutral point of view policy covers that aspect by requiring that we include all significant points of view with weight proportional to their prominence. If any significant view is missing then it should be added but only with as much space as it deserves. The subject's view is well-reported by the Maltese papers, as is the Maltese government's. Some Catholic views are represented by NCR blogs. The Obama administration is staying relatively quiet, but their view is obviously very significant and can probably be found scattered across reports various U.S. news outlets. Those are the views we need to present in balance. The less space we devote to the topic the easier that is to do.


 * Some specific suggestions:
 * It looks like the proposed additions concern four topics: Kmiec's Colbert show appearance, his views on family, his mandate as ambassador, and his resignation. The resignation is an unfolding story and we should try to keep that as short as possible pending finality, but we also need to start there because of the same reason. The mandate topic needs to avoid speculation about the possible motives of others. The View on family doesn't need a long quotation picked from a long book - it'd be better to change the topic of that section to the book, and find a 3rd-party summary of its main thesis. The Colbert material should also stay succinct and not be defensive. Overall, we need to make sure we're using the best available sources. I'll start by working on the resignation issue.   Will Beback    talk    08:05, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Will I tried to incorporate some of the material you identified above for editing practice, byt messed up the page, can you help put it back together, This was my first attempt sorry. (Treabis (talk) 04:21, 31 May 2011 (UTC)treabis)


 * Thanks, but it's better to say less than more. Much of what you added was argumentative and seemed to try to prove a point. Let's stick with the bare facts as much as possible. I've restored the previous, bare-bones intro.   Will Beback    talk    23:53, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

Speculation for higher office
I added a section regarding his announced run for Congress. Also, as I have recently (though, fruitlessly) been involved in trying to edit the bio of another former DOS staff member (Ronan Farrow) whose WP article has been inundated by an absolutely unbelievable deluge of PR agency sockpuppets, I would like to take a moment to thank User:Dkmiec for very transparently and maturely making edit suggestions here in the Talk page, an appropriate and welcome place to make such suggestions, instead of trying to surreptitiously game the entry as some are wont to do. I hope he continues to participate in making suggestions for improvement of this page. BlueSalix (talk) 14:02, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

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