Talk:Dubai/Archive 1

Human rights
According to the Barnabas Fund,a UK based organisation which aims to protect the human rights of Christians in Muslim majority countries,the Dubai Supreme Court recently decided to remove the right of appeal against deportation concerning `religious crimes`.These `crimes` include trying to convert Muslims to another religion. andycjp.8/4/04 From memory,the relevant web address is barnabasfund.org/news/archive/UAE...but although this is about the same case I read the above info in non web material.I believe the transgression of the UN declaration is pretty clear.andycjp9/4/04

Uhh, when I went to the page, I got a 403 forbidden error. WhisperToMe 15:35, 9 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Since a lot of the criticsm at Dubai is actually aimed at the entire UAE by Amnesty International, perhaps the whole human rights thing should be moved to the UAE page. WhisperToMe 22:42, 10 Apr 2004 (UTC)

ok I`d be happy with that but I am not sure how to do that..andy.11th April

I moved to the politics section of the United Arab Emirates. WhisperToMe 02:40, 11 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Do women have equal rights to men in Dubai ?

One topic worth mentioning is that the government is very intolerant about homosexuality. Expatriates face jail-time followed by deportation if found guilty and this article even mentions hormone-treatments BBC News report on arrest of gay men

Flag
The flag needs to be sorted out, at the moment, it looks like a white and red flag, but it's not. I don't know how to adjust the borders etc. though.--Prisonblues 09:31, 7 May 2004 (UTC)

Oil revenue statistics
the statistic that the oil revenue only accounts for 5% of dubai's GDP is surely incorrect, the cia world factbook lists the united arab emirates as: "The UAE has an open economy with a high per capita income and a sizable annual trade surplus. Its wealth is based on oil and gas output (about 30% of GDP)", even though this is the entire UAE's GDP it seems unlikely that the 5% figure is correct.

the statistic that the oil revenue only makes up 5% of the GDP seems very very far fetched. evidence anyone?

The Dubai Media City site says it is 10%, but still might be low.

The Dubai Media City site mentions 10%.

Not sure it specifies Dubai any further; I havne't read it closely, though. http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/uae.html El_C 03:44, 12 August 2005 (UTC) i personally feel the 5% statistic is bs. i'd say a healthy guess until any dubai centred evidence would be 20-30%

'You are confusing Dubai with the UAE''In 2004 oil accounted for 30% of the UAE's overall GDP. In Dubai's case the figure for 2004 is 6%. Abu Dhabi is the largest of the seven emirates and holds 94% of the UAE's oil resources, hence the difference in numbers. For further information please look at the IMF's reports or research published by the local banking sector. '''

i want persone which live in abu dubai
What about Dubai's Dry Docks and oil support industry? {22nd November 2004}

How about a mention of Mina Jebel Ali, which is (I believe) the third largest trading port in the world in terms of trade volume (dollars, not tons)?

I made a couple of minor edits (e.g. the spelling of Baniyas) as I'm sitting in Dubai right at the moment, but I have to say to whomever the author is that this is a very accurate article over all based on my experience here.variable 06:35, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Religion
I tried to clarify the bit about religion, as Islam is not the only 'recognized' religion in DXB, it is however the only state funded/supported religion, etc., etc.

otherwise no one would be allowed a liquor license


 * The situation is that it is even prohibited by law to proselytise. In newspaper there is almost never a word of the churches, however the pope seems to be recognised. I think I have read in the local media that some people get a fine or jail sentence because they have done proselytisis (spelling?). The churches are mainly used by Filopinos.
 * "Mainly Filipinos" indeed! There's a huge church-going community in Dubai, and there are separate masses given in English, Tagalog, Arabic, Tamil, Sinhalese, Urdu and French.

Abu Dhabi has 5 churches. If you interested you can search the local newspaper under. Other religions than thew islam are not supported at all because they are the "wrong" religions. Here's is anectode from my time there: There were a lot of lights and decoration on all buildings for the holiday of founding the UAE on the 2nd Dec. Normaly the people are lazy in the matter of removing the decoration. But suddenly on the 23rd of Dec everything has been quickly removed so that nobody can say, "Hey, they also celebrate christmas!". Happened in the emirate of Abu Dhabi.
 * Interesting, but have you taken a look at the malls in Dubai around Christmas? Lights, trees, and dressed up Santas as well. Incidentally, these decorations remain for some time after Christmas Day is over, meaning that malls in Dubai at that time will be more Christmassy that in America.
 * The movie "Passion Christs" was shown with the sign "uncensored" despite showing saints like Jesus is against islam. The main purpose that the film was shown is to hit the jews.


 * Regarding the liquor licence: It is restricted to the emirate it is issued. And in Sharjah alcohol is completely banned for ~20 years already. The limit is 1000 AED for purchases per month and the license costs 20% of the limit, i. e. for 1000 AED limit it is 200 AED issue fee. It must me renewed yearly and a minumum income of appr. 4000 AED (no fix figure, depends on the mood of the public servant) is required.


 * I have written a lot on the German version of the UAE in Wikipedia.
 * PS. please sign with -~ . Thanks
 * -ThorstenS 09:09, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Recent edits
I rv'ed a recent major edit that cited "grammar, structure, POV, updates" that cut out major swaths of the article which had little to do with grammar, structure, POV, or "updating" (as well as breaking an external link). If there are any issues with these sections that were cut (and rv'ed), please present them. siafu 23:13, 10 May 2005 (UTC)


 * I changed the article, because I felt that the article warranted change. The following is a summary of my changes


 * Grammar
 * "...mostly because of economics.." does not sound right. It did not make sense to me the first time I read it.
 * South Asia is a more politically accepted term for Indian subcontinent.


 * Structure
 * The paragraph beginning with "Discrimination against Asian workers.." seems more pertinent in the Human Rights and Labor Issues section that I created. Human Rights and Labor is a major part of the city seeing as how 98% of the labor force is foreign. A discussion of this is, I feel, essential.
 * I have re-structred the whole discussion on discriminatory salaries in a way that is more compatible with the tone of Wikipedia articles.
 * I have also restructured some of the discussion on Language and Religion and presented it in a more consise, understandable format, and have added Wiki internal links wherever I could.


 * POV
 * "Singapore" or "Hong Kong" of the Middle East, sounds very POV and having lived in the city for many years, I cannot recall anyone calling Dubai either of them.
 * "The emir has demonstrated an understanding..." (in fact, the whole discussion on GDP of the city is actually something I added to this article some time ago. Upon reading it now, I felt that it sounded POV or atleast not appropriately structured)
 * "Malayalam - most prominent"
 * "The building will stand at a whopping 800 meters high..." (To the best of my knowledge, Emaar Properties has not disclosed how tall Burj Dubai is going to be. If you have information on this and would like to include this sentence, please cite your source.
 * "..such a vital and rapidly growing sector.."
 * "..who is known to be extremely kind to his people.."
 * "..it is considered to be among the world's best and finest airports."


 * Updates
 * I have added more information on discriminatory labor practices in the city. I also added information that had been presented in previous edits to this segment.


 * If you feel any of these changes are unneccessary/inappropriate or warrant discussion, please add your comments to this discussion chain. I intend to go ahead and append my recent edits to the article soon. Thanks. AreJay 02:51, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

New Material
I am going to be making some major edits over the next many days. I have copy edited the article as best as I can and have added Telecommunications as a segment. I will start working on the Education segment soon, which, as of now, is essentially a series of links with no information.

Please also keep in mind that Wikipedia is NOT a links repository! I have deleted some links that I felt were not pertinent to this article. Please refer to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/External_links#What_to_link_to for more information. AreJay 05:10, 12 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Errors

Sorry if it looks like nitpicking, but the Dubai Creek is not a creek but an Inlet, and the Burj Al Arab is 7 star, not 5.


 * Could you give a source which confirms that the Burj Al Arab has 7 stars? I guess it is just PR from the Hotel. As far as I know internationally the maximum is "5 stars deluxe". The 7 stars (if true) seems to be a domestic rating system which should be mentioned in the article. -Toshi 06:52, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=%227+star+hotel%22+-burj+-al+-arab returns only a handful of results. 7 stars seems like a big marketing term.

I placed a link to Dubai Property Investments on 16:28, 3 October 2005 in the external links section. This change was subsequently removed by El C 20:03, 3 October 2005. Dubai Property Investments is a key site for those looking to purchase property in Dubai. The site offers free information on key properties and new property investments.

emir?
i've never really heard of any of the rulers being referred to as an "emir" this seems to be some propegated myth that comes about in touristy type books.

in 15 years of living here, the most common term has been "sheikh"

Have a look to the following articles maybe this gives you an explaination: Shaikh, Emir. Shaikh sounds maybe better or the local people have a negative opinion of the word Emir? -Toshi 07:41, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

well the country is bedouin which the article mentions, so sheikh seems more appropriate. Samuraisam 01:13, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

Also, the ruler of the country is called "sheikh maktoum" and ruler of abu dhabi is called "sheikh khalifa" so pretty obviously sheikh is the correct term. Samuraisam 01:13, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

Please note that the country is the United Arab Emirates... ie the country is made up of seven emirates and the ruler of an emirate is a emir. i am from UAE and we call them Sheikh not Emir. OVER


 * So what's the conclusion? This is an article about an emirate, not the UAE, so if you say "the ruler of an emirate is a emir" why do you then "call them Sheikh not Emir"? I reckon nobody disagrees that the ruler of the UAE is not called 'emir', but what about the ruler of Dubai (or Abu Dhabi or Sharjah or ...)? (It's not in the article anymore anyway, but I'm curious.) -- H005 09:47, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

As often with titles, they can have different meanings and be used concurrently with other ones. Amir is at the very least correct in the generic sense, equivalent to the western 'Prince', which applies to every ruler from Fürst to Emperor; it seems also to be used officially, as in the postal adres "HH The Amir's Court" in Fujairah. The normal term for the ruler seems to be Hakim (see there for other Gulf state cases) but the form of address (not the office) is the same as for all members of the bedouin dynasties: Sheikh, confusing but not unique- even the absolutist English Kings were long addressed as 'Your Grace', just as Dukes and Bishops who were their mere vassals (as under the Tudors). Fastifex 11:48, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

sizes!
I notice that this article is blighted by referring to measurements such as "the size of Washington DC" or "the size of Manhattan". Could I request that you use the universally understood land mass measurements of "Wales" and "Switzerland". (Not - just joking, please can somebody replace these ridiculous measurements with something meaningful to everyone, like "square kilometres"?).

Um, not everybody understands what a square kilometer is. 204.52.215.107 06:50, 12 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I think what User:81.156.107.88 was trying to say was that not everyone can relate to the comparisons to Manhattan and DC. I know that if I were living in another country, I wouldn't have the slightest clue what that meant. What the user seems to be suggesting is converting that to a measurement that is universially acknowledged in the world such as either mi2 or km2 (or both). AreJay 14:20, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Square miles are far from being "universially acknowledged in the world". In fact, it's known merely in the USA and the UK. You may add the square miles in brackets after the km2 figure for better understanding in these two countries, but generally measurements in Wikipedia should use the worldwide SI system. -- H005

16% of World's Cranes?
If it is in fact true that Dubai contains 16% of the world's cranes as stated near the end of the article, could we see a citation? That kind of figure does warrant some justification. --AnthonyA7 07:41, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

From www.ameinfo.com/56904.html "Dubai in particular is undergoing a major construction boom with 16% of the world's crane's now swinging above its skies. "

I do not consider this a reliable source. Who the heck would have figures about the world's number of cranes, or even only the number of cranes in Dubai, which are needed to reckon such a figure? Also, the Washington Post says: Reportedly, about 16 percent of the world's large construction cranes are in Dubai, a number often cited and difficult to verify. I have changed the claim to look like what it is: a claim, not a fact. -- H005 14:56, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Reorg on 6 Mar 2006
I just reorganized much of the article, trying to put things into standard subtopics such as History, Economics, Geography, etc. This reveals massive redundancy in the article, which needs to be cut away. Even if the article is streamlined, it's getting pretty long; someone might consider creating separate articles for Culture of Dubai, Transportation in Dubai, History of Dubai, etc. It could also use some mention of Physical geography (elevation, climate, etc.) Joshuardavis 21:13, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Split off "building projects" page?
How about a separate page about all those recent building projects that are going on in Dubai? (Burj Dubai, Palm Islands, The World, Waterfront, Dubai Land, Al Burj, Metro, Falcon City of Wonders...) Would be nice to have all those projects talked about in one place. Peter S. 23:29, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Ok, solved. Looks like Category:Proposed buildings and structures in Dubai fits pretty well. Peter S. 23:48, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Neutrality
I have put up a NPOV tag on the 'Human rights and labor' section of this article because there is just too much criticism for Dubai, in it. As I have stated in the edit summary, an opposing side of the argument simply MUST be put in, in order to make it more neutral. -Jibran1 04:58, 27 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure if there's an opposing side to some of the issues presented in the article. It is a well known fact that human rights abuses of blue collar laborers occur in the city, as is the issue of prostitution a well known (if conspicious) fact in the city. I don't think this is Dubai bashing as much as it is an accurate representation of some of the darker issues that don't get coverage often in local media. Would elements would you suggest incorporating into the article to make it more NPOV? AreJay 05:33, 27 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Unless you refer to something like the following, I agree with AreJay. Most, if not all, criticism is based on facts that even the UAE/Dubai government does not deny.
 * "In many instances, including during the International Police, Fire & Safety Conference, Lieutenant General Dhahi Khalfan, Dubai Police Chief, asserted that Dubai is fighting human trafficking and sexual exploitation." I heard most of his comments as aired in Arabic, so I can't find a source online.
 * I think the section doesn't need NPOV tag. - Eagletalk 05:50, 27 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I also agree that the NPOV tag seems unjustified. If you feel that opposing arguments exist that should be mentioned, feel free to put them in or discuss them here. As per now, I cannot see any. -- H005 09:35, 27 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree that it's not needed as well. Overall, the article is very balanced.  Not every sub-section will have a counter opinion (Economy and Geography come to mind). --Quasipalm 16:07, 27 March 2006 (UTC)