Talk:Duct tape occlusion therapy

Debride
Wow, I never would have predicted this treatment! Anyway, noticed your new page on recent changes. Looked at the link to the aafp article and note that they say "gently" debride. That might be a good thing to preserve, just in case people use the article as a how-to guide. -- cmh 14:56, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
 * It is surprising. Added "gently" as you suggested, but you're free to change the page yourself, it's not mine after all. Pgr94 13:51, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I thought you might still have been in the midst of editing it which is why I didn't just do it. Cheers -- cmh 14:24, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Personally, the debriding process wasn't that "gentle". Removing the main body of the wart took quite a bit of prying more than anything, and though it was not "gentle" it was entirely pain free - if disgusting. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.156.222.159 (talk) 03:40, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks
I woould like to thank the contributor to this page, I myself has a stubborn wart on my little finger. I used the duct tape just this morning. Later the evening I realized, I did something wrong. I haven't removed excess skin of the wart before placing the Duct Tape. I removed the Duct tape, was able to cut away the wart flat by a nipper, almost half of the wart was "dead" and can be removed without pain. This has never happened before. The wart was a discomfort for the past 8 months, and this is the first time I can cut it flat. I placed new duct tape on the area, and im planning to keep it for the next 6 days. I'll post after the treatment. Good job guys —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Franzsalvador (talk • contribs).

I just want to add my own personal experience as well, I showered with the tape on and immediately put on another strip of duct/cloth tape, this made the skin very wrinkly but somehow due to the constant moisture and tightness of the tape it seemed to kill off the wart within 2 weeks. I was overjoyed.

All I needed to do in addition to this was to cut off the wart with a razor (by lifting it at the sides all around then pulling it off with tweezers) and recovered it for a few days.

A few years later I had the same problem and I did the same solution only with salicilic acid as well and it cut the time down to a week. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 158.89.1.33 (talk) 06:26, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

Relative effectiveness of treatments
Dr. Rick Focht published a 2002 study in the Archives of Pediatrics & Adolescent Medicine (see below) concluding that the therapy was more effective than liquid nitrogen treatments.


 * "Duct Tape More Effective than Cryotherapy,"
 * 1) Focht DR III, et al. The Efficacy of Duct Tape vs. Cryotherapy in the Treatment of Verruca Vulgaris (the Common Wart). Archives of Pediatrics & Adolescent Medicine. Vol. 156 No. 10, October 2002.


 * The relative effectiveness of treatments is covered in the main wart and plantar wart articles. It would be unnecessary duplication to repeat it here. Pgr94 09:01, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Underpowered clinical trial
I am concerned about the changes made by User:Cmh that incorporate recent results published here. The article questions the efficacy of duct tape and the WP article has been updated to reflect this. However in the same issue of the same journal, there is another article (or editorial) entitled Interpreting Negative Results From an Underpowered Clinical Trial: Warts and All. The title appears to suggest inadequacies in the trial protocol. Unfortunately I don't have access to the article. Could someone with access to this article tell us the salient points? Pgr94 16:42, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
 * No, my university doesn't have access to that journal so I can't see it either. From a statistical point of view the journal MAY be talking about the fact that they saw a different but didn't have enough statistical power to make it significant from a statistical perspective. In these cases, more subjects may help to detect a difference. Despite this, the fact that they didn't replicate the result is extremely relevant to the scientific finding, and we must bear in mind that the second paper is PEER REVIEWED by experts in the field before publication so we can't just second guess it here. (Because doing our own analysis of things here in the article would be original research.) I think the best we can do is note that there is a study in support and one in opposition. And that means highlighting the now-questioned status of the medical practice here on Wikipedia.


 * As more labs try to replicate the original finding we may be able to support one side over the other. For now, having a neutral point of view IMHO means balancing both papers equally. If we can find out the contents of the editorial we could put that out there as well, but note that the editorial is likely NOT peer-reviewed while the other two papers are. This means that the editorial can't cancel or outweigh the negative peer-reviewed result in our treatment. -- cmhTC 19:03, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Evidence updated to reflect clinical trial outcomes.Pgr94 11:52, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I think your reorg is good. I changed the word 'validity' to the term 'statistical power' as an invalid study would be one measuring X when it wants to measure Y. Statistical power refers to the ability to detect a negative result with confidence that it isn't a false negative. -- cmhTC 14:30, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Duplicate trial reported?
New evidence for DTOT has been added by 193.22.89.2. However, BMJ Clinical Evidence is subscription only. Could someone with access check the following: Does refer to a different trial to, or is it the same trial? Pgr94 11:08, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

PAIN LEVEL
i believe it should be included that this method entails a large amount of discomfort if not, outright pain. This method is indeed effective, and will work, eventually, however through personal experience it is almost more benneficial, IMHO, to "tough out" said warts, fighting off HPV's naturally is a good method in which to strengthen your immune system. Like i said this is IMO, the relative association with warts and cancer was enough to change my mind about treating warts altoghether, plus, once you develop the immunity, you won't have to worry about them ever again. When1eight=2zeros


 * No fair, I'm not developing an immunity.. i've had a wart (always one, never the same place) on one of my soles since I was a little kid. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.72.21.221 (talk) 00:40, 3 May 2007 (UTC).

Other kinds of tape
Does anyone know if this treatment can work with other types of tape, such as a clear scotch tape. This would be more discrete than duck tape, being clear and all. It might be more likely to come off, but as long you are paying attention it may be worth the it to not have the cute guy/girl sitting next to you not asking why you have duct tape on your finger. --Blackmagicfish 23:20, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
 * If you have a wart, why don't you try it. mrholybrain 's talk 13:59, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I think displaying a cool strip of black, red, or gray duct tape is cooler than having a weird wart in plain sight. If she asks then you have an easy conversation. I've had the question before. It's not too hard to answer. Some people feel it's too awkward a question to even ask. (Djclimber 03:48, 25 May 2007 (UTC))


 * The military suggests using "riggers tape" in their medical feild manuals (I was in the Marine Corps and the Navy doc's recommended it). However, they recommened the tape be changed out every 12 hours.24.237.194.204 15:28, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Anecdotal evidence
Anecdotal evidence: I have had warts on my feet before and after many painful and ineffective treatments, I had decided to just leave them alone (they go away eventually on their own). Currently, I have one small wart on my left foot. When I heard about this occlusive therapy, I decided to try it. After two days, the pain had almost entirely gone. Today, two weeks into the therapy, I removed the main body of the wart (again without pain). Because warts are very stubborn and tend to return, I am going to continue the therapy until the wound completely heals. JRSpriggs 01:46, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
 * To be clear about the issue of pain: My warts, when I have them, often cause a low but constant level of pain. Previous treatments had caused a higher level of pain than the warts themselves, sometimes much higher. The duct tape occlusion therapy has only reduced the pain below the level caused by the wart itself. To anyone who experiences an increase in pain with duct tape, I say that either you are applying the procedure incorrectly or the procedure does not work for you. In either case, an increase in pain with DTOT means that you should stop what you are doing. JRSpriggs 01:58, 7 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Seconding this. I have a nasty wart on my finger. I paid my doctor to freeze it off and it just grew back, and since I don't have health insurance I cant afford to pay $80 every six weeks to freeze off the regrown wart. After a month with the duct tape the "shell" over the wart has sloughed off (very disgusting,but I put a band-aid on it until it healed and reapplied the duct tape) and now the area is starting to look like normal skin again. Miracle cure. I have no idea how it works, but it does, with no pain! --causa sui talk 18:38, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Reason and Methodology
I'm kind of new to this thing that's why I didn't edit the page directly. But I was told as to why this would work by several doctors at a time when I had some particularly stubborn warts. Apparently leaving the cloth tape there (it must be permeable cloth tape) begins to rot the wart over time. The skin around the wart rots away and after time the core of the wart falls out. Because the skin rots all the way around the wart, new skin grows around the wart, and the dead skin has a different pH meaning the virus can't transmit across into fresh tissue. galaxyruin 20:50, 7 March 2008 (AEST)

Additional: I too was told about the PH by a Doctor. The virus that causes the wart needs a specific pH, and covering the wart increases the water content. therefore the pH changes creating an environment where the virus can not grow. (Kris - 19 May 2009)

Procedure section
I'm wondering if this section would be considered a violation of WP:NOTGUIDE. Thoughts? -- ǝʌlǝʍʇ ǝuo-ʎʇuǝʍʇ ssnɔsıp 19:43, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

double-blind ductape trial
There is this claim on article: "Rachel Wenner, however, found no statistically significant effect in a double-blind, randomized and controlled clinical trial"

How could there be double-blind trial on using a duct-tape? Some people had tape on their skin for months but did not know about it, even when in shower? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.77.63.200 (talk) 16 September 2011

^^^Pretty simple, they used moleskin on the control group, something known to be ineffective on it's own to treat warts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.87.228.96 (talk) 16:56, 1 July 2012 (UTC)


 * That explains one half of the double-blindness. But double-blind means even the doctors treating the patient don't know whether they're using the real cure or not. For example, in the case of pills, an experiment co-ordinator will fill the bottles of some patients with placebo, and of other patients with the tested drug. The pills look identical, the co-ordinator never meets the patients, and the doctors who attend the patients through the trials don't know whether the patient's drugs are real or not. Hence double-blind, the practitioner doesn't know either. This is in case the practitioner might subconsciously tip-off the patients on placebo, or handle them differently etc.


 * So the point remains, how did the doctors treating the patients not know which kind of tape they were giving them? 92.40.254.62 (talk) 04:51, 11 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Two types of tape were used. One group got moleskin, with duct tape fastened underneath, so that group got duct tape.  The other group got straight moleskin.  Both types of tape made to appear appeared identical, apparently to both the participants and the investigators.  TJRC (talk) 23:13, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

edit january 6 2014
This argument needs refs!!Super48paul (talk) 11:30, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

Ambiguous
Much of the article talks about duct tape as if there were only one construction or one vendor. The truth is that there are several types of pressure sensitive adhesives used on a wide variety of "duct" tapes. The specific formulation of adhesive needs to be specified for any medical claims to be justified. Grantmidnight (talk) 16:31, 14 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Perhaps, but that's a criticism of the studies (which don't disclose that), not of the article, which is limited to including the previously published material; see WP:OR. TJRC (talk) 23:21, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Please do not start an Edit War. Wikipedia asks that disputes be resolved on the Talk page. The article as it is reads is ambiguous and does not specify what particular duct tape is claimed to help warts. This needs to be corrected. Grantmidnight (talk) 23:27, 14 April 2014 (UTC)


 * See WP:BRD. You were bold, you have been reverted; now discuss, if you still think your edit is appropriate.  The type of duct tape is not specified in the literature.  There is no way to add it without WP:OR.  What is it you propose to do here? TJRC (talk) 23:32, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
 * P.S. this is a good edit, for which I applaud you. TJRC (talk) 23:33, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Problems abound:
 * The article talks about "regular" duct tape: there is no such thing.   There are "standard" duct tapes that conform with technical specifications such as ASTM D5486/D5486M-06(2012) Standard Specification for Pressure-Sensitive Tape for Packaging, Box Closure, and Sealing, Type IV.   Reasonable medical research would also go far beyond this and ask about the specific type of rubber in the adhesive: butadiene-styrene, butyl, polyisobutylene, nitrile compounds, isoprene, etc.  What was the chemical composition of the tackifier?  Does residual organic solvent play a part in the possible medical effects?
 * What is the mechanism of the observed effects? Is it chemical or just the covering of an Occlusive dressing?
 * Many of the listed sources seem questionable in light of Identifying reliable sources (medicine). Solid secondary sources (reviews) are required.
 * Typical duct tape is not hypoallergenic nor latex-free. It is not manufactured under the Good Manufacturing Practices required for all medical products.  It is not a medical product.
 * Grantmidnight (talk) 17:46, 15 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Just to clarify; your bullets #1, 2, and 4 are directed to the studies themselves, right? And the third is directed at the Wikipedia article?
 * I've got to agree with you that studies that report experiments and findings ought to be reproducible, and not disclosing the details of the materials actually being tested seems to me to be pretty shoddy. (Although I hasten to add that I'm not a medical researcher, so maybe standards are different.) TJRC (talk) 22:45, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

I have reworked the article a bit, basing the lead on the highest quality source (latest cochrane review). There may be a case for merging into the main article wart now, which would prevent the article going wandering into POV/OR land as more editors would be able to easily keep an eye on it there. I am always in favor of discussing one possible treatment in the context of all the other options anyway.

I note the category "alternative medical treatments" is placed on this article, while at no point in the article does the suggestion that it is alt med occur. If it is Alt med we should mention this prominently in the lead. If there are no sources which state it is alt med, then that category should be removed. One source does call it alt med. Lesion 08:43, 16 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Thank you. Grantmidnight (talk) 13:52, 16 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Yes, this is a huge improvement. Nice work, . TJRC (talk) 23:42, 22 April 2014 (UTC)