Talk:Eddy Francis

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Eddy already caps for Chinese professional club Ningbo Huaao in China League Two. See here (Ningbo Huao vs Hubei Greenery lineup ), 21-艾迪 is Eddy François (Chinese name 艾迪·弗朗西斯).
 * Then I'd suggest marking that. Ironholds (talk) 13:19, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: no consensus. At some point during the discussion, the target move location changed, and then the move request be malformed. If there is still a desire to rename this article, I recommend starting a new discussion with new rationale and a move destination that is either a redirect, a redirect created by a multimove, or an empty title. (non-admin closure) Steel1943  (talk) 21:18, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Aidi (footballer, born 1990) → Aidi (footballer) – Unnecessary dab, no other footballer named Aidi has a page on English wikipedia. Ai Di per evidence below. --Relisted. George Ho (talk) 06:18, 25 September 2014 (UTC) Timmyshin (talk) 02:17, 6 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Question - just asking, but given that his English name is Eddy François, shouldn't the article title be Eddy (Chinese-Tanzanian footballer) or something? Are there any English sources? In ictu oculi (talk) 07:23, 6 September 2014 (UTC)
 * I think he's mentioned more as "Ai Di" in English. Support move to Ai Di then. Timmyshin (talk) 09:31, 8 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Oppose - per no evidence offered, and English name is Eddy François. Welcome to resubmit a RM when there are some sources. In ictu oculi (talk) 03:21, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
 * What is your English-language source for "Eddy François"? Timmyshin (talk) 10:20, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
 * ...it doesn't require any sources to ask a question, I was going by the lead of the article. You've presented 2 sources - Football.com listing "Aidi" and Soccerway.com "Aidi" which look like betting listings, they certainly aren't WP:RS. The Multicultural Chinese National Team : Wild East Football however has a picture and a name Eddy François.
 * And more to the point this article was at Eddy Francois until a cut and paste move in 2010. It will need an admin history merge to clean up the mess. The footballer now should be at Eddy François (footballer) since Eddy François (musician) requires Eddy François be a hndab. In ictu oculi (talk) 07:04, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
 * This player is a Chinese citizen as far as I know, and thus no chance that his name would appear as Eddy François on any official documents, including a Chinese passport. Both of my sources list him as "Ai Di", not "Aidi", no reason to distort facts, again. Plus to allege that football.com and soccerway.com are betting listings is just — may I ask what is your proof? Timmyshin (talk) 10:05, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Timmyshin, "distort facts, again." "allege" this is personal attack language. Please calm down. Yes your sources say Ai Di, not Aidi, but since Ai Di is not a serious option I wasn't even thinking of that. This RM is a mess. The article needs to go back to where the article started before the cut and paste move. In ictu oculi (talk) 10:29, 25 September 2014 (UTC)


 * I have amended the lead to Aidi Frances according to the pinyin name written on his club bed head in the Sohu news I located and added 在艾迪的床头，写着“Aidi Frances”的英文字样. It's better to go on than nothing. The article could probably move there too. In ictu oculi (talk) 11:02, 25 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Comment Ai Di is a redirect to a completely different article, Emperor Ai -- 65.94.171.225 (talk) 16:27, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks 65.94.171.225 the change of proposal to Ai Di was so ridiculous I didn't even bother to click it. Timmyshin I'm sorry but you seriously need to slow down on making RMs if you are not going to do basic checks in Google Books and on Wikipedia before proposing them. In ictu oculi (talk) 20:51, 25 September 2014 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 2

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: move the page to Eddy Francis, per the discussion below. Dekimasu よ! 08:16, 12 October 2014 (UTC)

Aidi (footballer, born 1990) → ? – (Move to Ai Di or Ai Di (footballer)) Why was the previous discussion closed when people are still discussing it? Evidence:  The only opposer, who repeatedly dismissed "Ai Di" "ridiculous" or "not a serious option", has not offered any explanation why. He claimed that the pages football.com and soccerway.com are betting sites, but has not presented any evidence. He also tried to mislead others into believing that the pages use "Aidi" when they clearly use "Ai Di". As for the concern that Ai Di currently is a redirect (which I redirected not that long ago), I'm open to the page being moved to Ai Di (footballer). Timmyshin (talk) 21:29, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
 * More sites using "Ai Di": footballzz.co.uk, goal.com, worldfootball.net, wallofsport.com, and there are a lot more. It's quite interesting to me that the same opposer who dismissed the websites football.com and soccerway.com as unreliable sources (I'm still waiting for evidence), presented a Wordpress blog entry Wildeastfootball.net: "The Multicultural Chinese National Team" to support his claim as if it's more reliable. Timmyshin (talk) 21:54, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
 * User:Timmyshin, the difference was the Wildeastfootball.net article was at least written by a human being, not copied generated mechanically out of input from a databank. In ictu oculi (talk) 01:26, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
 * So that makes it a reliable source? Most likely this human being copied "Eddy François" from the unsourced Wikipedia claim, and now you use him to WP:CIRCULAR and support the same claim, how convenient. Timmyshin (talk) 01:53, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Wildeastfootball.net uses Eddy Francois in April 2011, Aidi Frances in February 2012, and Eddie Francois in June 2012, if you believe that website's a good source, what's your rationale in picking that particular one of the 3? Timmyshin (talk) 04:21, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
 * In order: (1) No. (2) Perhaps. (3) No, and convenience doesn't enter into it. (4) To say "at least written by a human being" does not equate to "a good source". (5) I'm not picking between "Aidi Frances" and "Eddy Francois". In ictu oculi (talk) 12:10, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
 * The why are not not mentioning "Eddie Francois", if you are mentioning the other 2? As far as I can see, each name has appeared in just 1 blog entry from the same website. Timmyshin (talk) 04:55, 28 September 2014 (UTC)


 * The wildeastfootball.net blog entry that calls him "Eddy François" was created in April 2011, after this name has already appeared on English Wikipedia without a source. wildeastfootball.net then calls him "Aidi Frances" in a later blog entry. I definitely don't think wildeastfootball.net should be even considered for this page's title. Timmyshin (talk) 23:31, 25 September 2014 (UTC)


 * What's the rationale for separating the syllables? It appears that Aidi serves as a forename with his full name as Aidi Fulangxisi (艾迪·弗朗西斯).  (Which begs the question of why the article is not at that title—the Chinese Wikipedia article also uses that form.)  The Chinese Wikipedia article claims he is also known as Ma Aidi (马艾迪).  In either case, Aidi serves as a single name and should be written together per WP:PINYIN.  I don't have any evidence either but tend to dismiss the credibility of the sources given in the nomination based on other cases (and in the spirit of WP:NOT).  —  AjaxSmack   23:34, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
 * While I'm not denying that "Aidi" or "Eddy" is most likely his forename, we have to go by sources. No evidence = no argument on wikipedia, we cannot name something on Wikipedia based on WP:ORIGINALRESEARCH. "Aidi Folangxisi" Google results = 0. "Aidi Fulangxisi" = 3. "Ma Aidi" = 0 (in fact, as far as I can see, this Chinese name only appears in Chinese Wikipedia without a source.) Timmyshin (talk) 23:57, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I meant Fulangxisi. As far as sources go, if English sources are of insufficient quantity or quality as seems to be the case here, titles can be Romanized from Chinese following pinyin rules, hence my suggestion.  —  AjaxSmack   00:04, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Point taken, but in Chinese Super League he only appears as 艾迪 (Ai Di or Aidi) in official game stats, hence Fulangxisi/Folangxisi/Francois/François/Frances/Francis/Francies do not show up in most English/Western European-language soccer/football fan sites. Besides the pinyinized "Fulangxisi" is definitely not his Tanzanian father's surname, but what it is is really anyone's guess at this point. Timmyshin (talk) 00:21, 26 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Comment Ai Di is currently a redirect to a different article, Emperor Ai; prior to that, it used to target Emperor Ai of Han -- 65.94.171.225 (talk) 23:39, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Emperor Ai is not an article but a dab page. Timmyshin (talk) 00:00, 26 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Strong Oppose, again - for all the reasons in the previous discussion. Nominating again with Ai Di or Ai Di (footballer) appears to be a minor case of WP:IDIDN'THEARTHAT. Aidi 艾迪 is the standard Chinese for Eddy (does the nominator not understand Chinese?) as 艾迪（香港演员） Aidi (Hong Kong actor) or 艾迪（尼日利亚足球运动员） Aidi (Nigerian footballer). The "sources" the nominator has found are 垃圾, footballer listings probably primarily for betting purposes and certainly with no understanding of the Chinese language. In ictu oculi (talk) 01:22, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
 * "All the reasons in the previous discussion?" May I ask what? Other than you blatantly distorting facts, making unfounded claims that you cannot support, referencing a blog entry which likely borrows from Wikipedia and now, resorting to Chinese to namecall? If you believe that his name is Eddy, why on earth did you add the "Aidi Frances" part to the beginning of the article anyway? Timmyshin (talk) 01:53, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
 * The Hong Kong actor in your link is English-named Eddie not Eddy, which already invalidated your (yet another) unfounded claim of "Aidi 艾迪 is the standard Chinese for Eddy". You are very good at taking advantage of the situation that most editors here don't know Chinese, but there ought to be a limit on how much facts you can distort. Timmyshin (talk) 02:01, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Perhaps this opposer needs to read Goal.com before badmouthing something he doesn't know. Another site that has an article on wiki, Footytube, also uses "Ai Di". Timmyshin (talk) 02:16, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm afraid I stand by the view that those football listings are "rubbish" for the purposes of this RM, being sources probably primarily for betting purposes, and I also stand by the view that they were inputted with no understanding of the Chinese language. Beyond standing by my view, no further comment. In ictu oculi (talk) 10:52, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm afraid that your view that over 44,000 webpages are all "rubbish", is "rubbish". Timmyshin (talk) 04:53, 28 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Oppose "Ai Di" because the title should redirect to dabpage, Emperor Ai; Support "Ai Di (footballer)" because there are no articles about other footballers of the same name. --George Ho (talk) 17:12, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
 * George, do you mean "Ai Di" for 艾迪·弗朗西斯 as the sports listings or "Aidi" as the English Sohu newspaper articles? In ictu oculi (talk) 01:08, 27 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Either one is fine as long as "born 1990" is scrapped. --George Ho (talk) 02:53, 27 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Oppose The only valid namespaces I can see for this article are "Eddy François" or "Aidi", because the former is is real name in "English" and the latter is the only valid transcription of his Chinese common name "艾迪". "Aidi" should be without spaces, because he is always referred to as such in Chinese (and never as either 艾 or 迪). "Aidi Frances" is utter nonsense and the equivalent to "blind idiot" (if you could imagine the expression "out of sight, out of mind" translated to another language literally and translated back). But since both namespaces have been taken, they would need to be dabbed to Eddy François (footballer) or Aidi (footballer). --  Ohc  ¡digame! 04:09, 27 September 2014 (UTC)
 * You don't know that is his real name in English. Timmyshin (talk) 02:56, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
 * ""Aidi" should be without spaces, because he is always referred to as such in Chinese (and never as either 艾 or 迪)." Can you explain this? Even if he were surnamed Ai, with a given name Di, in Chinese he will still always referred to as 艾迪 and never as either 艾 or 迪. Timmyshin (talk) 04:41, 28 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Oppose In this context "Aidi" is a homophone of the English forename "Eddy". His actual "English" name is Eddie François (艾迪·弗朗西斯) so any move should be to "Eddy François (footballer)". "Aidi Frances" per the current disambiguation page is bastardised nonsense. Philg88 ♦talk 05:44, 27 September 2014 (UTC)
 * You don't know that is his actual English name. (I take that "Eddie" is just a typo). Timmyshin (talk) 02:56, 28 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Changing vote: move to Eddy François, his real name. No extra disambiguators necessary. Otherwise, "Eddy François (footballer)". I already created Eddy Francois, just in case. --George Ho (talk) 18:04, 27 September 2014 (UTC)
 * You don't know that is his real name. Timmyshin (talk) 02:56, 28 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Oppose Ai Di is improper style for a Chinese transliteration. It seems either "Eddy François" or "Aidi Frances" should be used. &mdash;innotata 20:20, 27 September 2014 (UTC)
 * There's nothing improper about it, "Ai Di" is a Chinese name and WP:COMMONNAME, just like e.g. Ai Hua. If Westerners like Ai Hua or Fei Xiang can even be referred on English wiki by their Chinese names, why can't a Chinese national born and raised (by his Chinese mother and Chinese maternal grandmother) in China, who knows no English or French, use his Chinese name, which is the name he uses in the Chinese Super League, where his complete notability derives from? Instead of guessing (with no reliable source) whether his first name is suppoed to be "Eddy" or "Eddie", and whether his surname (that he never uses in the Chinese Super League) is supposed to be "Frances" or "François" or "Francois" or "Francies" or "Francis" etc. and making a complete joke out of Wikipedia (since having spoken to his girlfriend I know that neither of the 2 options that you mentioned, which are also the 2 mentioned in the opening paragraph, is correct). Timmyshin (talk) 05:17, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Enough. At this point we have only 1 source for the English underlying 艾迪·弗朗西斯, the 2004 interview I added as a footnote to lead which gives "Eddy Frances" (possibly a spelling mistake for "Eddy Francis", Tanzania being Anglophone not Francophone, but that's a guess and by the by). The issue with this second RM is that you decided to disagree with your first RM and propose Ai Di rather than Aidi as the WP:PINYIN for "Eddy". I think everyone has told you that "Eddy" is not transliterated Ai Di in WP:PINYIN, but I'm pinging User:Philg88 User:George Ho User:Innotata User:AjaxSmack 65.94.171.225 to make sure that is what everyone is saying.  Aidi is the WP:PINYIN for "Eddy", Ai is not Ai (surname). In ictu oculi (talk) 06:58, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
 * @In ictu oculi:  Correct. Aidi is the pinyin for Eddy/Eddie. "Ai" is not a surname.  Philg88 ♦talk 08:05, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
 * "but that's a guess..." Just great! Please again explain how you got "Eddy" and not "Eddie". Bottom line is you can't. And the 2004 interview article clearly says "Aidi Frances", but why am I not surprised to read "Eddy Frances" instead from your comment. Timmyshin (talk) 01:16, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

Research

 * Origin of Eddy François: User:Alexchen4836 was the one who added "Eddy François" to the article in 2010 without a reference. Alex, I know you are still active on Wikipedia, what is your source? Or was it just through "reverse transcription"? Timmyshin (talk) 02:29, 28 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Origin of Aidi Frances: A 2004 Titan Weekly newspaper article: "在艾迪的床头，写着“ＡｉｄｉＦｒａｎｃｅｓ”的英文字样. 可艾迪说他不会英语，更不会法语，只会中文. " (Translation: "On 艾迪's headboard there are the English words "Aidi Frances". But 艾迪 says he doesn't know English, knows even less French, and only knows Chinese.) Timmyshin (talk) 04:13, 28 September 2014 (UTC)


 * For those who can read Chinese, please see this exchange with the player's girlfriend on Sina Weibo.



Me: "I noticed some Western websites, like goal.com, call your boyfriend Ai Di. Is this considered correct?"

Her: "AiDi is Hanyu Pinyin. 艾迪 is a Chinese national, so this spelling is also not incorrect. It's like your English name and Chinese name are both you, right?" (talk) 03:34, 28 September 2014 (UTC)


 * When I edited this article, he was named "Eddy Francois" in many reports. source 1 source 2… These reports were based on a post in an internet forum (The post was repost continually so the original post is unknown). However, it had been proved in the past few years that most names on that list were fabricated. So I'm not clear about his name now, the best way is ask the player himself, check out his passport, which writes his English name officially. --Alexchen4836 (talk) 01:02, 29 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Thank you. Now we know that you are also unsure, I can tell you it was indeed fabricated. But the fact that many believe it should tell you something. Timmyshin (talk) 01:16, 9 October 2014 (UTC)


 * He replied in his Sina Weibo that his English name is Eddy Francis. --Alexchen4836 (talk) 03:25, 9 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Support Eddy Francis per User:Alexchen4836 "在这统一回答吧 英文名字应该是Eddy Francis 也谢谢关心我的球迷朋友们" dated 2014.10.06. This will now be the end of the discussion, and no need for further harassment of the football player's girlfriend either. In ictu oculi (talk) 02:21, 10 October 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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