Talk:Edward Watkin

edit
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Edward_Watkin&diff=579522440&oldid=579385720

Added some references from http://www.oxforddnb.com/view/article/36762 (if you are in the UK your library ticket number will almost certainly get you free access to it).

I removed some excess stuff about the London Extension - it wasn't about Watkin - and has an own article anyway eg Great_Central_Main_Line.

Some bit remain unreferenced - I've marked most of these.

One part I question is the bit about the Canadian Pacific - the odnb article doesn't mention it at all - but does mention the Grand Trunk Railway. Can someone else check this out.. If he was involved in both then both should be mentioned - or is there some mix up??

Prof.Haddock (talk) 20:47, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

The article Manchester, Sheffield and Lincolnshire Railway also contains a lot of political detail about Watkin, which might be better dealt with here.Prof.Haddock (talk) 20:48, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

Extensive additions and amendments.
Sir Edward William Watkin, 1st Baronet (26 September 1819 – 13 April 1901) was a British Member of Parliament and railway entrepreneur. He was an ambitious visionary, and presided over large-scale railway engineering projects to fulfil his business aspirations, eventually rising to become chairman of nine different British railway companies, “a director of a further thirteen in the UK and consultant to the railway systems in Honduras, Athens, the Belgian Congo in Africa and India.” Among his more notable projects were his expansion of the Metropolitan Railway (part of today's London Underground network); the construction of the “Great Central [SUBSTITUTE “Railway” for “main line”], a purpose-built high-speed [OMIT “railway”] line from Manchester to a new London terminal at Marylebone”; the creation of a pleasure gardens with a partially constructed iron tower at Wembley and a failed attempt “in 1880” to dig a channel tunnel under the English Channel to connect his railway empire to the French rail network “and eventually Baghdad.” “He acted as an advisor to the Colonial Secretary of the British Cabinet in the negotiations with the independent provinces of British North America which led to the foundation in 1867 of the Dominion of Canada.”

Contents •	1Biography “[Include ‘Family’ in the Biography section and add sections on ‘Early Years’ and ‘Canada’. Adjust numbering] o	1.1 Early Years o	1.2 Railways o	1.3 Canada o	1.4 Channel Tunnel o	1.5 Politics o	1.6 Wembley Park and Watkin’s Tower o	1.7 Other schemes Omit Section on ‘Family’ (which should be included in ‘Biography’) •	2 Notes •	3 References •	4 Further reading •	5 External links” Biography[edit] Watkin was born in Salford, Lancashire, the son of wealthy cotton merchant Absalom Watkin,[1] who was noted for his involvement in the Anti-Corn Law League. After a private education, he went to work in his father's “[SUBSTITUTE “cotton warehouse” for “mill business”]”.[1] In 1845, he co-founded the Manchester Examiner,[2] by which time he had become a partner in his father's business. He lived “[ADD “in”, OMIT “at Rose Hill”,]” Northenden, “[ADD “now”]” a suburb of Manchester, “[ADD “but in Watkin’s lifetime a village in Cheshire,”]” in “[ADD “Rose Hill”]” a house bought by his father in 1832.[3][page needed] “[ADD “He inherited Rose Hill on the death of his father in 1861. The house is now a Grade II* Listed Building because of its historical associations with famous people who stayed there, among them three Prime Ministers and Charles Dickens. Watkin married Mary Briggs Mellor in 1845”;[1] ADD “they had two children: Harriette and” Alfred Mellor Watkin, [ADD “who”] was locomotive superintendent of the South Eastern Railway in 1876[15] and Member of Parliament for Great Grimsby (UK Parliament constituency) in 1877.[1] His nephew, also called Edward Watkin, was general manager of the Hull and Barnsley Railway. Watkin’s first wife died in 1888. In 1892 he married Ann Ingram, the widow of his friend Herbert Ingram, the first Editor of The Illustrated London News. She died in 1896. Watkin” is buried in St Wilfrid's churchyard in Northenden, where a memorial plaque commemorates his life. “Early Years Watkin assisted Richard Cobden in the campaign to repeal the Corn Laws. Cobden asked him to set up a branch of the Anti-Corn Law League to gain support among factory and gotton-mill workers. Watkin became its national chairman. He led the campaign to create the first public parks in Manchester and Salford and was instrumental in introducing Saturday half-day working in Manchester, ten years before the rest of the UK.”

Railways[edit] Watkin's high-speed Great Central Main Line Watkin began to show an interest in railways and in 1845 he took on the secretaryship of the Trent Valley Railway, which was sold the following year to the London and North Western Railway(LNWR), for £438,000.[1] He then became assistant to Captain Mark Huish, general manager of the LNWR.[citation needed] He visited USA and Canada and in 1852 he published a book about the railways in these countries. “[OMIT “Back in Great Britain he was appointed secretary of the Worcester and Hereford Railway.[citation needed] NB This company was amongst the smallest of the 34 companies he was involved in!]” He then left the LNWR and in 1853 became the general manager of the Manchester Sheffield & Lincolnshire Railway (MS&LR).[1] He held this position to 1862,[citation needed] and was chairman of the company from 1864 to 1894.[1] “In 1872 he became chairman of the Metropolitan Railway in London, the first underground railway in the world, and extended it as an overground line to the north.” “[MOVE THIS SENTENCE TO THE NEW SECTION ON CANADA He was knighted in 1868 and made a baronet in 1880.[1] ]” “[REPLACE THIS PARAGRAPH WITH A NEW SECTION ON ‘CANADA’ BELOW. Abroad, he encouraged the uniting of the Canadian provinces by the building of the Canadian Pacific Railway. He also helped to build the Athens–Piraeus Electric Railways, advised on the Indian railways and organised transport in the Belgian Congo.] [OMIT Watkin was involved with other railway companies.]” In 1866 he became a director of the Great Western Railway and in January 1868 the Great Eastern Railway. In fact it was Watkin who recommended Robert Cecil who is credited with leading the GER out of its financial crisis. Watkin resigned as a director of the GER in August 1872.[4] By 1881 he was a director of nine railways and trustee of a tenth. These included the Cheshire Lines Committee, the East London, the Manchester, Sheffield and Lincolnshire, the Manchester, South Junction & Altrincham, the Metropolitan, the Oldham, Ashton & Guide Bridge, the Sheffield & Midland Joint, the South Eastern, the Wigan Junction and the New York, Lake Erie and Western railways.[citation needed] “He created the ‘London Extension’ of the Manchester, Sheffield and Lincolnshire Railway to join with the Metropolitan to form in 1899 the Great Central Railway. [OMIT instrumental in the creation of the MS&LR's 'London Extension', Sheffield to Marylebone, the Great Central Main Line, opened in 1899.[1] ]” “Canada In 1861 Watkin was asked to become secretary of the Grand Trunk Railway in Canada, the longest railway in Canada but close to bankruptcy. Watkin established it financially and developed it into the longest railway in the world at the time. It eventually became one of the railways that formed the Canadian Pacific Railway. While he was involved in the Grand Trunk the Colonial Secretary in the British Cabinet asked him to act as his agent in the negotiations with the British provinces which led to the foundation of Canada. For his work in Canada he was knighted in 1868. He became a baronet in 1880.”

Channel Tunnel[edit] For Watkin, opening an independent route to London was crucial for the long-term survival and development of the MS&LR, but it was also one part of a grander scheme: a line from Manchester to Paris “and ultimately to Baghdad.[1] “ His chairmanships of the South Eastern Railway, the Metropolitan Railway,[1] in addition to the MS&LR meant that he controlled railways from England's south coast ports, through London and (with the London Extension) through the Midlands to the industrial cities of the North; he was also on the board of the Chemin de Fer du Nord, a French railway company based in Calais. Watkin's ambitious plan was to develop a railway network which could run passenger trains directly from Liverpool and Manchester to Paris, crossing from Britain to France via a tunnel under the English Channel.[5] As well as a high-speed specification, the Great Central Main Line was also built to an expanded continental loading gauge; unlike any other railway lines in Britain, Watkin's line would be able to accommodate larger-sized continental trains crossing from France.[6] Watkin started his tunnel works with the South Eastern Railway in 1880–81. Digging began at Shakespeare Cliff between Folkestone and Dover and reached a length of 2,020 yards (1,850 m). The project was highly controversial and fears grew of the tunnel being used as a route for a possible French invasion of Great Britain; notable opponents of the project were the War Office Scientific Committee, Lord Wolseley and Prince George, Duke of Cambridge;[7] Queen Victoria reportedly found the tunnel scheme "objectionable". Watkin was skilled at public relations and attempted to garner political support for his project, inviting such high-profile guests as the Prince and Princess of Wales, “[ADD the Prime Minister] [OMIT Liberal Party Leader]” William Gladstone and the Archbishop of Canterbury to submarine champagne receptions in the tunnel “entrance”.[8] In spite of his attempts at winning support, his tunnel project was blocked by parliament and cancelled in the interests of national security. The original entrance to Watkin's tunnel works remains in the cliff face but is now closed for safety reasons.[9][10] Politics[edit] Watkin was Liberal Member of Parliament for the constituencies of Great Yarmouth (1857–1858) Stockport (1864–1868) and a Liberal Unionist MP for Hythe in Kent (1874–1895). He was High Sheriff of Cheshire in 1874. “He was a Manchester city councillor from 1862 to 1865.” Wembley Park and Watkin's Tower[edit] The first and only completed stage of Watkin's Wembley Tower (c.1900) Watkin's last project was the construction of a large iron tower, called Watkin's Tower, in Wembley Park, north-west London. The 1,200-foot (370 m) tower was to be the centrepiece of a large public amusement park which he opened in May 1894 to attract London passengers onto his Metropolitan Railway. The park was served by Wembley Park station, which officially opened in the same month, though it had in fact been open on Saturdays since October 1893 to cater for football matches in the pleasure gardens. Watkin's vision of Wembley Park as a day-out destination for Londoners had far reaching consequences, shaping the history and use of the area to the present day. Without Watkin's pleasure gardens and station it is unlikely that the British Empire Exhibition would have been held at Wembley, which in turn would have prevented Wembley becoming either synonymous with English football or a successful popular music venue. Without Watkin, it is likely that the district would have simply become inter-war semi-detached suburbia like the rest of west London. The tower was intended to rival the Eiffel Tower in Paris.[8] The foundations of the tower were laid in 1892, the first stage was completed in September 1895 and it was opened to the public in 1896.[11] After an initial burst of popularity, the tower failed to draw large crowds. Of the 100,000 visitors to the Park in 1896 rather less than a fifth paid to go up the Tower. Furthermore, the marshy site proved unsuitable for such a structure. Whether the original design (which was to have had eight legs) would have distributed the weight more evenly cannot be known, but by 1896 the four-legged tower was clearly tilting. In addition, Watkin had retired from the chairmanship of the Metropolitan in 1894 after suffering a stroke, so the tower’s enthusiastic champion was gone. In June 1897 the tower was illuminated for Queen Victoria's 60th Jubilee, but it was never extended beyond the first stage “of 155 feet (47 metres).” In 1902 the Tower, now known as ‘Watkin's Folly’, was declared unsafe (though this was because of concerns about the safety of the lifts, rather than directly about the subsidence) and closed to the public. In 1904 it was decided to demolish the structure, a process that ended with the foundations being destroyed by explosives in 1907, leaving four large holes in the ground.[8][11][12][13][14] The Empire Stadium (later known as Wembley Stadium) was built on the site in 1923. When the first stadium was demolished in 2003 the foundations of Watkin’s Folly were revealed. They are still under the present pitch. Other schemes[edit] “Watkin transformed the small port of Grimsby on the east coast of England into the largest fishing port in the world and the neighbouring village of Cleethorpes into a holiday resort. He tried to promote a railway tunnel under the Humber at Hull, a tunnel linking Ireland to Scotland and a canal across Ireland to reduce the journey time from the USA to Liverpool. He” was responsible for an abortive attempt in the 1880s to create a new south-coast resort and deep-water port at Dungeness in Kent. “A painting (The Icebergs, by Frederic Church) which Watkin bought in 1863 hung forgotten in Rose Hill House for over a century until it was discovered to be an American masterpiece and sold at auction in 1979 for the then record price of two and a half million dollars. It hangs in the Museum of Art in Dallas, Texas.” Family[edit] Portrait by Augustus Henry Fox, now in the National Railway Museum “[THIS SECTION SHOULD BE TRANSFERRED TO THE EARLIER SECTION TITLE ‘BIOGRAPHY’, CORRECTED AND ADDED TO] Watkin married Mary Briggs Mellor in 1845;[1] their son Alfred Mellor Watkin was locomotive superintendent of the South Eastern Railway in 1876[15] and Member of Parliament for Great Grimsby (UK Parliament constituency) in 1877.[1] His nephew, also called Edward Watkin, was general manager of the Hull and Barnsley Railway.” Notes[edit] 1.	^ Jump up to:a b c d e f g h i j k l Sutton & Bagwell 2004. 2.	Jump up^ Cawood, Ian (2012). The Liberal Unionist Party: A History. I. B. Tauris. pp. 132–133. ISBN 978-1-84885-917-3. 3.	Jump up^ Hartwell, Hyde & Pevsner 2004. 4.	Jump up^ Ashton, Geoff (October 2013). "The GER 1867-72". Great Eastern Journal. 156: 43. 5.	Jump up^ Haywood, Russell (2012). Railways, Urban Development and Town Planning in Britain: 1948–2008. Ashgate Publishing, Ltd. p. 22. ISBN 9781409488255. 6.	Jump up^ Healy 1987, pp. 24–53. 7.	Jump up^ Hadfield-Amkhan, Amelia (2010). British foreign policy, national identity, and neoclassical realism. Rowman & Littlefield. pp. 67–72. ISBN 978-1-44220-546-8. 8.	^ Jump up to:a b c Goffin 2005, pp. 23-25. 9.	Jump up^ "Channel Tunnel – Yes Or No?". 1957. British Pathé. Retrieved 6 September 2013. Missing or empty |series= (help) 10.	Jump up^ Horsfall Turner, Olivia (2013). "Making Connections". Dreaming the Impossible: Unbuilt Britain. British Broadcasting Corporation. BBC Four. 11.	^ Jump up to:a b Hewlett, Geoffrey (1979). A History of Wembley. Brent Library Service. pp. 170–1. 12.	“This biography should not be listed as a note but in the Reference Section Jump up^ Greaves, John Neville (2014). Sir Edward Watkin 1819-1901 The Last of the Railway Kings. Melrose Books. p. 203. ISBN 1909757322.” 13.	Jump up^ Hodgkins 2002, p. 652. 14.	Jump up^ Rowley, Trevor (2006). The English landscape in the twentieth century. Hambledon Continuum. pp. 405–7. ISBN 978-1-85285-388-4. 15.	Jump up^ Biographical details of managers, chairmen, etc References[edit] “Transfer this important biography from the Notes section to here: Greaves,, John Neville (2014). Sir Edward Watkin 1819-1901 The Last of the Railway Kings. Melrose Books. ISBN 1909757322.” Goffin, Magdalen (2005). The Watkin path: an approach to belief. Sussex Academic Press. ISBN 978-1-84519-128-3. Goffin, Magdalen (1993). The Diaries of Absalom Watkin, A Manchester Man 1787-1861Alan Sutton Publishing Limited ISBN 0-7509-0417-8. •	Hartwell, Clare; Hyde, Matthew; Pevsner, Nikolaus (2004). The Buildings of England: Lancashire: Manchester and the South East. Yale University Press. •	Healy, John (1987). Echoes of the Great Central. Greenwich Editions. ISBN 0-86288-076-9. •	Hodgkins, David (2002). The Second Railway King – The Life and Times of Sir Edward Watkin 1819–1901. Merton Priory Press. ISBN 1-898937-49-4. •	Sutton, C. W.; Bagwell, P. S. (2004). Watkin, Sir Edward William, first baronet (1819–1901), railway promoter. The Oxford Dictionary of National Biography. Oxford University Press. doi:10.1093/ref:odnb/36762. (Subscription required (help)). Further reading[edit] •	Dyckhoff, Nigel (1999). Portrait of the Cheshire Lines Committee. Ian Allan. ISBN 978-0-7110-2521-9. •	Elleray, Kirsty (4 December 2002). "The nearly man of Northenden". The South Manchester Reporter. •	Greaves, John (Summer 2007). "Sir Edward Watkin and the Liberal cause in the Nineteenth Century" (PDF). Journal of Liberal History (55): 25–27.[permanent dead link] •	“Scargill, Geoffrey (5 June, 6 June, 10 June and 19 July 2014) Four articles about Sir Edward Watkin in the Manchester Evening News.” External links[edit] Wikimedia Commons has media related to Edward Watkin.

•	Works by Edward Watkin at Project Gutenberg •	Works by or about Edward Watkin at Internet Archive •	Hansard 1803–2005: contributions in Parliament by Edward Watkin •	“The Friends of Rose Hill was formed in 2015 to promote interest in Edward and Absalom      Watkin. In January 2018 the group was awarded a grant by the National Heritage Lottery Fund. Its website is at www.friendsofrosehill.org”

GScargill (talk) 15:03, 31 July 2018 (UTC) GEOFF SCARGILL

Reply 02-AUG-2018
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Corrections of fact
Opening section: "nine different British Railway companies" should be "six". These were East London; Manchester Sheffield & Lincolnshire; Metropolitan; Aylesbury & Buckingham; Neath&Brecon; South Eastern. See loc cit Hodgkins pp706-720. Biography: "mill business" should be "cotton warehouse". See loc cit Hodgkins p2. Biography: "at Rose Hill, Northenden, a suburb of Manchester, in a house..." should be "in Northenden, then a village in Cheshire, now a suburb of Manchester, in Rose Hill House". Railways (final sentence): "creation of the MS&LR's 'London Extension, Sheffield to Marylebone, the Great Central Main Line, opened in 1899" should be "creation of the 'London Extension', which linked the MS&LR to the Metropolitan Railway between Annersley, north of Nottingham, and Quainton Road, north of Aylesbury, to form the Great Central Railway, opened in 1899." See loc cit Hodgkins p603 and Greaves loc cit p139 Channel Tunnel (second paragraph): "Liberal Pary Leader" should be "Prime Minister" Notes: "12 Greaves etc". This is a substantial biography of Watkin (just reprinted) and should be listed in the Reference section, along with the other biography listed, by Hodgkins.GScargill (talk) 08:17, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

Introduction
'He was an ambitious visionary' sounds a bit obsequious. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2a00:23c7:6e0d:a401:c199:e19f:c101:174c (talk) 14:00, 11 April 2022 (UTC)