Talk:Eleanor Foraker

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 1 September 2021 and 13 December 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Eliza321. Peer reviewers: JennaMacG.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 20:35, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Initial review
Hi there!

I just finished peer-reviewing your article. Let me know if you have any questions or concerns!

Thanks,

JennaMacG (talk) 18:49, 7 December 2021 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by JennaMacG (talk • contribs) 18:39, November 23, 2021 (UTC)
 * , it doesn't look as though this article has been peer-reviewed. If it has, can you please provide a link to the review? I think the article is a worthy addition to Wikipedia, but it has a lot of issues that ordinarily would have been addressed in PR, most noticeably the puffery WP:NPOV adulation. TJRC (talk) 17:17, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

TJRC, this peer review was done for a project within a University course. I am unsure whether or not peer reviews within University courses can be seen to other users since it was an one-on-one activity. Within my peer review, I did provide feedback regarding biased claims and how to improve neutrality within the article. The course has not finished yet and users are still completing and editing their drafts with the feedback received on their peer reviews. JennaMacG (talk) 18:48, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

Other publications that include references to Eleanor Foraker
Advice sought on whether and how best to include reference to these publications that mention Mrs Foraker:
 * Dress for Egress: The Smithsonian National Air and Space- Museum's Apollo Spacesuit Collection; Douglas N. Lantry. Journal of Design History Vol. 14 No. 4 2001
 * Lunar outfitters - making the Apollo Space Suit; Bill Ayrey 2020; Published by the University Press of Florida ISBN 2020938192 (includes a picture of her)
 * One Giant Leap by Charles Fishman ISBN 13:978-1-4328-6540-5
 * The Journey to Moonwalking by Kenneth S Thomas 2017 ISBN 978-0-9934002-2-3

Cleanup needed
This article continues to be in need of cleanup. The lede and section "Personal life and early career" are now in pretty good shape, but the balance of the article still needs work.

Apollo mission section (opening): Almost nothing in this section is about the subject of the article, Foraker. Any content that's not already covered in Apollo/Skylab spacesuit could be moved there, but I suspect everything already is.

The sole content pertaining to Foraker is the small part at the very end: "One of Foraker's specific tasks in her supervisory role was to manage the use of sewing pins by the sewing staff.[5] Each seamstress was given a set of pins with different coloured heads, so that Foraker could track who had worked on each suit. If a pin was found in the suit (from either the coloured set, or brought from home), it would typically result in pin poke to the behind.[2][5]" I'm not sure that level of detail is necessary, but I understand the desire to have as much detail as possible for borderline-notable biographies.

Technology subsection: None of this is about Foraker. It's about the space suits.

Work culture subsection: the only bits about Foraker are " During the final stages of the suits production, Sheperd would stay at the Dover plant with Foraker for many late nights and help move the bulky suits as she sewed them using one of the two modified singer sewing machines (dubbed 'Big Moe' and 'Sweet Sue').[2] At this time Foraker was also undertaking a supervisory role, and working eighty hour work weeks, sometimes only leaving the plant for two hours before coming back.[8] Foraker's dedication to the creation of the spacesuit meant that aside from these long work weeks, she had no days off or vacations for three years, and also ended up suffering two nervous breakdowns during this time.[8]" Peacock aside, at least this part is material to the subject of the article, but the rest is not.

Lasting impacts section: This is an essay on the importance of the women who made the spacesuits, attempting to justify the notability of Foraker. It's really not about Foraker, and is best left to those retrospective articles it cites, rather than an encyclopedia article.

In sum, this article can and should be trimmed substantially to only that material that actually covers its subject. TJRC (talk) 23:26, 9 December 2021 (UTC)


 * I'm generally happy with the article as-is. I don't see why there should be a requirement that articles not overlap, and if there were then much of the text in- for example- "Apollo/Skylab spacesuit" would have to be trimmed since it reiterates information which is already in "Gemini space suit", "Space suit" and so on.


 * Details such as that the suits were bulky, heavy and hence fatiguing to make are useful, and this article is a useful focus for material which would otherwise be dispersed or unrecorded. MarkMLl (talk) 08:08, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

Employment history
Did she /leave/ ILC in 1964 or was she /seconded/ to NASA, rejoining ILC in 1968?

List of activities in first para could be usefully tidied up with reference to primary sources. MarkMLl (talk) 08:18, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

Image
I have found an image of Foraker here (https://www.rocketstem.org/2014/07/15/unsung-heroes-of-the-apollo-program/). The article linked credits CNN Back Story, but I can't find any CNN articles with this picture in them. I'd like to add a picture of Foraker to add to the article, but without some reliable source I'm hesitant to add this one. Is this a reliable enough source to add this image to the article? Snafflebix (talk) 17:59, 26 February 2024 (UTC)