Talk:Election subversion

definition
In the definition, this article says: "Electoral fraud is a form of illegal election subversion". So without any citation, electoral fraud is being defined as a form of election subversion. Since electoral fraud is also being defined as a kind of "election interference", it's confusing whether election subversion is a synonym for election interference. If a synonym, then this article should replace that Wikipedia:Redirect. rootsmusic (talk) 15:55, 18 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks @Rootsmusic for bringing up this article as it's very much related. From what I understand, Election Interference typically refers to foreign attempts to influence an outcome whereas election subversion typically refers to domestic actors. I added a 'see also' link in each others' articles until we can find some sourcing to better clarify the difference Superb Owl (talk) 06:36, 23 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Superb Owl This article is one of the redirects under "election interference", which I looked up because it's a term that's often thrown around in today's news. (Trump has been alleging that the trials against him are election interference, because they're interfering with his ability to run in the 2024 election.) rootsmusic (talk) 07:50, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
 * @Rootsmusic, have we gotten to the bottom of this? sorry for just getting back to you but I want to bring this article up a level if you have any more suggestions Superb Owl (talk) 22:30, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
 * @Superb Owl The current definition is limited to "meddling with the vote counting process", which excludes meddling with the certification of election results and the Trump fake electors plot. (I'd prefer another source for the definition's citation, because I don't consider comedic talk shows to be reliable sources.)  Under "What types of subversion are happening right now?", Protect Democracy's explainer describes subversion to include: (1) election denialism, (2) disinformation, (3) intimidation, (4) legislative subversion and (5) voter suppression. rootsmusic (talk) 23:07, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I took a first pass at adding that expanded definition in. Will keep looking for better sources - a perennial award-winning show is one I feel comfortable with but get your hesitation. This page still needs lots of love Superb Owl (talk) 23:24, 17 February 2024 (UTC)