Talk:Elio Lampridio Cerva

Incomprehensible Sections
I'm sorry to whoever contributed to this page, but there were huge chunks that were completely unintelligible to me as a native English speaker; even as an English speaker with some knowledge of Italian (I worked out that "scomparve" probably meant "he died".)

At first I tried only to correct the English, but as I got into it I realized too much of it was beyond correction. I could not, in any way, understand what was trying to be communicated. So I cut out all those sections. The rest I corrected as best I could. I apologise for any mistakes.

Maybe someone could look at earlier revisions or the Italian or Croat versions of Wikipedia and use those to provide a new English replacement for the sections I cut. 9ulk 19:35, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

POV problems
This is at least strange....--Theirrulez (talk) 12:08, 4 May 2010 (UTC) ... This is POV, definitely. --Theirrulez (talk) 06:39, 8 May 2010 (UTC)


 * POV? You must be joking.
 * You've bolded Italian language names in the lead contrary to WP:MOSBOLD without any indication as to their usage in English.
 * You've replaced English language names with Italian language names in the infobox (i.e. you've added in the infobox a name that is not even in the title).
 * You've introduced fake nationality entries for completely non-existent and unheard-of nationalities you just invented.
 * You've introduced a POV cat (which will be deleted), created solely for the purposes of pushing italianization POV. "People from Dubrovnik" already exists as a category. "Ragusan people"???
 * You've removed a perfectly valid tag.
 * "I'm not interested in silly nationalistic disputes, cause I'm not moved by any kind of nationalistic feeling"? Now that is just plain lying. Who are you kidding? If nothing else than the addition of Italian flags for the sake of it just makes such a statement silly. You've placed the Italian WikiProject above others deliberately and just for the sake of it a large number of times (contrary to any alphabetical or chronological order). You've added Italy portal to articles about ethnic Croatian literary authors even though the Dante Alighieri article hasn't got one :P. How do you justify the addition of WikiProject Italy to this talkpage? I'd like to hear that. Is this person an ethnic Italian? Did he consider himself Italian? Was he born in Italy? Was he a subject of any Italian state? Is any historic person that traveled to Italy once in his life within the scope of WikiProject Italy? -- DIREKTOR  ( TALK ) 11:32, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Why alwasys the same explanations??
 * Let's start again:


 * I've removed for error, in good faith, sorry for that but It'seems to be easy to add it again.
 * I've introduced a category which, created for the purposes of contained people from the Republic of Ragusa. "People from Dubrovnik" is a category which could induce in a bad confusion. "Ragusan people" refers to all the people (who, when are related to Dubrovnik can also be contained in "People from Dubrovnik") born or related to the Repibblic of Ragusa, an ancient state counting more towns, not only Dubrovnik. A person can be in the category "Ragusan People" without being in People from Dubrovnik, and by far much easily viceversa.
 * Ragusan is as by far valid definition as Venetian or Dalmatian or Corsican but should be indicated in the article alongside his Croatian nationality.
 * He's a considerable figure for the works and the years spent joining the Accademia Romana of Pomponio Leto, and he received the laurel crown on the Capitolium. His Lexicon was written and pubblished in Italy and it's part of Italian Late Latinist Literature. That's why it's correct to add the WikiProject Italy to this talkpage.
 * In the infobox should be titled with the name he choosed (Aelius Lampridius Cervinus) as poet or writer and he used to sign his works with. It's not mandatory to repeat the article name. It's a way to offer the reader a right diferentiation between his common name and his alias as writer.
 * So stop this song please.


 * For all ragusan noble people, names I've bolded (correctly) are obviously not Italian, they are original romance dalmatian names, the most common in original primary sources.
 * Thanks for understanding what is the meaning of that, thanks for stop always accusing anyone about nationalist position. Next time you'll accuse me of that i'll be compelled to report you for what it seems to be a personal attack.
 * Sincerely, --Theirrulez (talk) 13:22, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Results:
User:DIREKTOR don't admit any discussion about the article. Hes keep imposin his pov like this:, after my effort to dialogue. In his revert everyone can see he wrote a "Croatian Language poet". He knows perfectly Aelius Cervinus wrote almost only in Latin.
 * Stop addding this POV again, please! --Theirrulez (talk) 15:19, 8 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Why isn't "Karolus Magnus" in bold or in the infobox on the Charlemagne article? Why isn't "Torino" in bold on the Turin article? We do not bold names you proclaim(!) to be "original", only those names which are used in English in a significant number, i.e. only those names which, when compared to the number of English Google hits for the main article title, produce a similar number of hits. "Ilija Crijević" (869); "Elio Lampridio Cerva" (166)
 * "Ragusa" = "Dubrovnik"; "Ragusan people" = "Dubrovnik people" = "People from Dubrovnik". Not only that, but there is more than one "Ragusa". Your cat is badly titled, and should be named "People from the Republic of Ragusa".
 * Without a source citing the "Ragusan nationality" (corresponding with "nationality=Ragusan") there is nothing to debate or discuss. -- DIREKTOR  ( TALK ) 18:52, 8 May 2010 (UTc)


 * You're not as smart as I believed. Didn't you see than the 90% of Ilia Crijevic hits is copied by the wikipedia text??? Don't you know how deeply weekepedia influences web searching? Or maybe you know.. and you have a goal to reach? Or you are google-addicted? Oh damn'! After Sockpuppet-phobya now a Googlecounting-mania!
 * About Ragusan nstionality, i've to say that you're right, the correct title is "People from the Republic of Ragusa", but I wonder why you are still arguing and don't cooperate? You could have changed by yourself, why you didn't it. Ragusan nationality anyways is an historical truth. Get this one for the moment, if u want to continue in your stherile polemic pushing I will you give as many as you need.
 * Bye Doc, and stop POVing.. or at least try to stop.. --Theirrulez (talk) 22:03, 8 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Neither are you. The search is rigged to exclude Wikipedia & Wikipedia-related sites as per recommendations for Wiki Google tests. The Google test is recommended and widely accepted as the no.1 means for determining English language usage. And it certainly supersedes "estimates" and opinions. -- DIREKTOR  ( TALK ) 22:16, 8 May 2010 (UTC)


 * You have now engaged in edit-warring to push your changes into the article. You've been sufficiently warned, I believe. Further edit-warring will result in an immediate report that will include mention of all your previous activities. Such as purposely and repeatedly censoring the talkpage comments of enWiki users, altering posts of Wikipedians , WP:EW on multiple articles against several established users      , attacking other editors, blanking articles , WP:MEATPUPPETEERING & CANVASSSING editors (mainly in Italian) to form a WP:CLIQUE    , restoring sock edits, etc. etc. Quite amazing actually. Not to mention that you managed all this in a few days since you were blocked on itWiki.


 * Please restore the version prior to your edits, leave the article alone, and wait until discussions are concluded. As explained your edits are offensive & are opposed on the grounds of WP:COMMONNAME & WP:V. Your sources do not meet verifiability criteria, and you are editing contrary to Wikipedia policy and guidelines. Again, please restore the version prior to your edits and discuss. -- DIREKTOR  ( TALK ) 22:59, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

No edit warring sir, in the articles you metioned often the most part of sources is added by me. Tha's to be clear. The link you showed are bad used to show something very different from the truth, House of Cerva was redirected because of well-know facts of copy-past-and-move which saw you envolved. I just asking help to oher users about completely different matters and I used Italian cause user I talked with were Italian. This:, that you posted is a joke of what. Whata re you trying to demonstrate sir? My edits are not in line with your positions? I'm sorry, I gave you loads of reliable sources, I let you revert everithing and always, so what anymore are you looking for? Please let me work for the Project (it's already enough hard) and do not try to intimidate me. Never more.--Theirrulez (talk) 23:46, 8 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Let me assure you that you are indeed edit-warring to push your changes on several articles. This is not how Wikipedia works. If you are opposed & reverted, you take it easy and discuss.


 * I do not hold it against you that you are (relatively) new to Wikipedia, but what I do hold against you is your insistence on ignoring policy when it is pointed out to you. All of the above stands, completely and quite obviously. We do not bold names that are not used in English, regardless of whether someone thinks they are "original" or not. We do not engage in WP:MEATPUPPETEERING and WP:CANVASS to have our way. We do not repeatedly restore sock edits and talkpage posts. We do NOT use private websites as "sources" (WP:V), but published references.
 * Signore, richiedo di nuovo: restaura per favore la versione precedente. -- DIREKTOR  ( TALK ) 00:29, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Elio Lampridio Cerva being Dalmatian
Without any surprise even on this - fairly minor - writer there was the usual and sad discussions about the name. Can I understand why the article is named with the Croatian version of the name when in this case it is IMHO quite evident that the Italian (or the Latin name) should be used? --Silvio1973 (talk) 10:56, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) A ratio of 3:1 in WP:COMMONNAME, and 2) previous Wikipedia WP:CONSENSUSES on the naming of Dubrovnik notables. -- Director  ( talk )  10:05, 12 February 2012 (UTC)


 * I verified the statement in point 1) according to the guidelines in COMMONNAME page ("A search engine may help to collect this data; when using a search engine, restrict the results to pages written in English, and exclude the word "Wikipedia".") and the situation seems opposite. Please see this search results excluding Wikipedia entries:
 * * Elio Lampridio Cerva: 7650
 * * Ilija Crijević: 2070
 * * Aelius Lampridius Cervinus: 1370
 * The ratio is 3.7:1, so the commons english name used to refer to this poets is the italian one.
 * The pages shall be moved to the english common name (Elio Lampridio Cerva). --Accurimbono (talk) 10:13, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Family of Cerva
The current version of the article quote a source for him belonging to the the House of Cerva, not the House of Crijević. --Silvio1973 (talk) 10:02, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
 * They're the same thing. -- Director  ( talk )  10:06, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

Of course they are. This was not my concern. Thank you for this note of humour, it made warmer this cold day. --Silvio1973 (talk) 11:14, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes it is frightfully cold these days. You know it was snowing in Split for days, a very rare occurrence . -- Director  ( talk )  12:52, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

I live in Moscow. Right now it is -27 degC... --Silvio1973 (talk) 18:22, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Again you trump me with Russia, kudos :D. For Dalmatia this what we're having now is extreme cold. Snow actually remained on the ground and did not melt after a day or two, that didn't happen since 1954 or something like that. And people just don't remember when we last had several days of heavy snowfall, its been longer than since measurements started being taken. Needless to say, the city was completely unprepared. The whole place was brought to a complete standstill, it was impossible to drive since noone was prepared to clear the streets, and who buys winter tires when you live on the Mediterranean? At the hospital, of course, we had about 500 hand and arm fractures. At least we students had the opportunity to see some very interesting surgical procedures. :) -- Director  ( talk )  20:28, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

Categories
Is it intellectually acceptable to include this writer in Croatian categories? 1. He clearly showed in his life his adversion to Slavik culture and language. 2. He lived in the Republic of Ragusa in the XV century (I don't have to write how peculiar was the culture of this place and different from the rest of the land that today makes Croatia). 3. Research on google show that the Roman version of the name is by far more prevalent than the Slavik (but I agree this is not a criteria of choice, just an indication).

This obsession to insist in considering people living in the XIV and XV century in Dalmatia as Italian or Croatian gets sometime (as in this case) to absolute no-sense. Those people should be classified as Dalmatian. Or perhaps not classified in any nationality at all. Or finally is an agreement is not found, we need to get to the (horrible) compromise to enter it in both categories (Italian and Croatian) as it was done for Giulio Clovio. --Silvio1973 (talk) 09:01, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Name
Some Gbooks-hits:

Italian variant:
 * "Elio Lampridio Cerva" 86
 * "Elio Cerva" 43
 * "Elio Lampridio Cervino" 58
 * "Elio Cervino" 45

Latin variant:
 * "Aelius Cervinus" 48
 * "Aelius Lampridius Cerva" 35
 * "Aelius Lampridius Cervinus" 33
 * "Aelius Cerva" 21

Serbo-Croatian variant:
 * "Ilija Crijević" 90

A Ragusan who spent years in Rome, his works are preserved only in Latin, and as quoted in the article, he disliked the Slavic language. His family, based on the wiki, is not Croatian (Slavic). It would only be appropriate to move the article, evidently, as stressed previously.--Z oupan 05:28, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

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