Talk:Emergency medical services in Germany

Prehospital EMS in Germany
In English it would better to call this article Prehospital or Extrahospital or Ambulance EMS, because Emeregency Medical Services include all GP , Hospital and Public Health Emergency Services. Has this article in Englih been writen by germans by german concepts  because it feels with paramedic biasses  ? It would be interesting for non British or US readers to have a description of each Land system and of the national disaster planning188.115.5.23 (talk) 21:25, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Paramedics in Germany
Hello everyone, and particularly Winnie and Sebastian!!! I wanted to let you know that as the work pushes on, I am going to start a rewrite of the above article very shortly, as part of an attempt to bring all of the 'Paramedics' articles up to at least a 'B' (take a look at Paramedics in Australia), just as I have done for the 'Emergency medical services' articles. I would really welcome anything that you might be able to contribute, particularly since you both work in that system. Our collaboration worked really well the last time!!! I think that the content is pretty good right now, although if there are any inaccuracies or items missing, by all means jump in and help. What I would particularly like to see for 'prettying up' the article is photos. We already have photos of ambulances, notarzt cars, helicopters, etc., but what we DON'T have, and what I would really like to add, are photos of German paramedics doing their work. There are none currently on the site or in Commons. If you are interested, if you could find and upload such photos with suitable permissions (if they're your own you don't need anything else!), and then let me know where you have put them, that would be really helpful! Thanks in advance! Emrgmgmtca (talk) 19:02, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

wrong facts
the EMS service is acc to the Bund-Ländervereinbarung Rettungsdienst (I don't know the original law name, something like this) in the duty of the states of Germany. The states delegade to the districts and district free cities of Germany. Not the simple municipalities or towns. Sebastian scha. (talk) 13:25, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the 'catch' Sebastian! Take a look at the correction I've made and see whether or not that is right.  This information, and the citation that you were concerned about are both from the German physician who originally wrote this article.  Since I don't read German, it would be really helpful if you would have a close look at that citation and make sure of its' validity.  Thanks.  Emrgmgmtca (talk) 14:26, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
 * First of all, I am not a physician, but an EMT. But thanks for the flowers, Emrgmgmtca...
 * Second of all, I think I know what Sebastian is concerned about. I suppose you were referring to the "Bund-Länder Ausschuß Rettungswesen", which was an advisory board in the German Ministry of Transportation, diddolved in 1997. I searched for papers by this board other than the curriculum for the training of Rettungssanitäter (1977) and came up empty. As far as I am concerned, this board never had any legal saying.
 * Regarding the responsibility, however, I believe, we are having a sort of a misunderstanding.
 * According to the German constitution, Art.30 and 70, the federal states provide every legal framework except when it is explicitely stated that the federal government provides such. Responsibility for emergency services in context with my writing was supposed to mean that the municipalities are the responsible bodies providing EMS, whereas the state legislature tells them how to do it. With the exception of the three city states Berlin, Hamburg and Bremen,I do not know of a single state providing for EMS by itself except for Air Ambulance services. As an example, please look up §3 RettDG Sachsen Anhalt, Art.18 BayRDG (Bayern)or §3 NRettDG (Niedersachsen). In all three of these laws it is stated that counties and cities are responsible for EMS in accordance with state law.


 * The dubious-tag regarding the link to Frankfurts city counsel is irreproducible for me. I wanted to show that EMS is one of the top priorities of a municipality, the link to Frankfurt shows Fire Prevention and EMS in "Dezernat V", which is directly below the mayors office. I would appreciate it, if you'd care to elaborate.


 * At last, I'd appreciate it if I was given at least a slight chance to discuss the facts before the article is edited. In this case however, Emrgmgmtca found a nice way of editing without changing...Winnie-MD (talk) 18:31, 15 September 2008 (UTC)


 * The Emergency Medical Services Act, state of Sachsen-Anhalt, §3 states: Träger des bodengebundenen Rettungsdienstes sind die Landkreise und kreisfreien Städte. Sie nehmen diese Aufgabe im Rahmen des eigenen Wirkungskreises wahr. Träger der Luftrettung ist das Land Sachsen-Anhalt. Authorities for the ground based ems are the districts and kreisfreien Städte (districts free cities? urban districts?). Authority for the airial ems is the state of Saxony-Anhalt. <end translation more Germanenglish ;-) The other sources are for an other day. I think something like this exists in all of the German states. The (Kreis)leitstelle (dispatcher) is maybe for firefighters and ems together, that will depend how the district provides the services. My original research is that mostly it is combined. But it is not allways or solely in the authority of a simple municipality (this was / is my main point in tagging the references.) Greetings Sebastian scha. (talk) 18:42, 15 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Welcome to both of you!!! Winnie, my apologies for assuming that you were a physician, the MD in your screen name certainly suggests that in English, but I stand corrected. I hope that you are both happy with the editing that has been done...basically I was trying to simply make really GOOD material accessible to English readers, and to standardize the format a bit. I see that someone has rated the article as B-Class, so we're probably on the right track!  In the meantime, if there are discrepancies, or factual inaccuracies, you two know your system far better than I do, so please go ahead and make any changes you think are appropriate.  I will keep a watch on the article, and will do any necessary language 'touch-ups' that are required.  Also, thanks for the additional photos...they really add to the article. This has turned out to be a great collaboration between all of us, and if we aren't careful, likely to end up in a 'GA' rating for the article!  By the way, if you are interested in seeing where I have worked for the past 35 years (but will soon be retiring from to teach and do research full-time), have a look at www.toronto.ca/ems.  Emrgmgmtca (talk) 09:49, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Update: Notfallsanitäter and general article rewrite
I took the time to implement the new paramedic profession "Notfallsanitäter" (effective since 2015) into the article, including some heavy restructuring and correction. Detailed descriptions of paramedic levels/training and politics where given to Paramedics in Germany, the historical section was put in here. Now I consider this article more or less correct. :) However, the following still may need attention: — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.87.223.184 (talk) 12:21, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Responsibility and Leadership: this isn't really enlightening and not quite correct if seen nation-wide (i.e. the responsibilities of the counties Landkreise isn't taken in account). I didn't touch this since this requires a total rewriting. At the moment at least it's not totally false, at least for some states...
 * Vehicles:
 * Ground vehicles: adding several special units, like MICU, obesity ambulance, high risk infectious ambulance, ...
 * Air ambulance is not as clear as it could be, sounds more complicated as it is. BTW, are there still Ministry of Interior helicopters in use? I think, meanwhile all HEMS stations are operated by ADAC and DRF. Has to be checked. (DONE)
 * Others should be expanded and filled with pictures. I'll give a try...
 * Dispatch is a nice start but misses a lot of things.
 * Several additional topics I could think of:
 * response times
 * communication systems (BOS-Funk): the old analog radio system (still in use until TETRA is rolled out) and the new digital nation wide TETRA system (in roll-out) (DONE)
 * auxilary systems like First Responder, the cooperation with fire department in technical rescue
 * general description of a call or non emergency transport
 * financing, charging the patient/insurance
 * statistical representation/charts: call volume, ratio of medical/trauma calls, number of ambulances/helicopters, ...
 * recent EMS politics discussion: staff situation, work hours, EU regulations regarding contracting etc.
 * public reception: cinema, TV (german series, well known other series)

English counterparts and physician internship
Two things: Firstly the hospital internship for physicians has been abolished a few years ago. Today, after 5 years of study time and 1 "practial year", which counts to study time, too, physicians recieve their license and that's it. The "Arzt im Praktikum" isn't a thing anymore.

Secondly: The Rettungssanitäter is more according to the EMT, while the Rettungshelfer in many cases doesn't know much more than first aid, except maybe patient transport and how to read blood pressure. They are not allowed to administer drugs, not even upon order by a superior, they can't lay an IV, nothing. Thus I suggest putting in EMR - Emergency medical responder - to that place. - Immernoch EkelAlfred (Spam me! (or send me serious messages, whatever...) 19:41, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

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Location of Guard Stations
Not only are the fire department and the Rettungsdienst dispatched from the same location and the same personell but we should also add that the EMS in Germany is mostly based within the Firedepartment and so, is considered a part of the Fire department, gathered by the desire to "Save Lives", in North-Rhine Westphalia and in nearly all western Germany due to occupation by western allies in WW2? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:908:A67:F960:F913:D735:EFEB:D44A (talk) 17:09, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Which is not necesseraly the truth over whole Germany. FD and EMS are NOT always located at the same place, in most cases there are distinct EMS stations, at least when EMS is not provided by the FD (some cases are known when a FD hosts another EMS company, but that's pretty rare). Fire departments providing EMS are mostly known only in north-west Germany (historically British sectors after WW2), whereas in southern Germany (Bayern, Baden-Württemberg, Hessen, Saarland) and east German states EMS usually is provided by other organizations/companies, often the local Red Cross societies (American and Russian sectors after WW2). --217.226.54.171 (talk) 09:45, 8 October 2021 (UTC)