Talk:Empire Test Pilots' School

Untitled
I'm not quite sure that the Saab Gripen should be entered yet as this is not in regular usage? TiHead 21:58, 18 November 2006 (UTC)


 * A press release dated 5 May 2005here stated"This year, the Gripen aircraft will be fully integrated into the school’s training syllabus. For the first time, Gripen will be flown exclusively by ETPS personnel – with two-seat aircraft occupied by an ETPS IP and student on every flight. Until now, a Saab test pilot has always been on board but, during 2005, Gripen will be released entirely to the ETPS."

Tucano: Embraer or Shorts?
Is the Tucano at ETPS Brazilian or from Shorts? --TraceyR 15:51, 1 August 2007 (UTC)


 * The two ETPS operated Tucanos are Short built T1s serial numbers ZF510 and ZF511 . MilborneOne 21:09, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

B-Class / Lists
I'm in the process of finding sources for the various trophy winners - it's taking a long time to track them down - but I'd like feedback as to what else will be required to satisfy B-Class criteria. Thanks.

I'm also considering extending the ETPS coverage by creating WP lists of course students and linking to them. Any thoughts about this would also be gratefully received! --TraceyR (talk) 13:14, 6 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Can't answer the assessment question but I would think a list of students may be a problem unless the students are notable in some way. I appreciate that it would be interesting but I am not sure it would be encyclopedic. MilborneOne (talk) 19:42, 6 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Just out of interest The Air Force List shows graduates of the ETPS, although it doesnt say when and you have to search through all the lists to find them! MilborneOne (talk) 20:10, 6 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the comments. I was wondering about the notability aspect. Since many of the ETPS students went on to become household names (e.g. Neville Duke, Peter Twiss, Mike Lithgow, a few astronauts etc) perhaps a section on notable students would be useful. One could argue that taking part in an ETPS course is notable in itself! Certainly winning a trophy there would qualify. There doesn't seem to be any other source for the names of course members, so maybe WP really is the place for this info to be collected and preserved for posterity! I see that the Air Force List is available on CD; is there an online source anywhere? A cursory search failed to find one. Thanks. --TraceyR (talk) 23:03, 6 April 2010 (UTC)


 * I've got about as far as I can with the lists of trophy winners and ETPS Commandants using online sources and my own 'library'. It's odd that there is no other source for this information, so with time WP can fill this gap. I'm quite happy to add further entries, so anything editors care to post here (with sources!) will be added eventually; of course please feel free to add data directly - this is Wikipedia, after all! Any corrections to the data I've gleaned from the web are more than welcome. There's quite a lot about ETPS graduates who have gone on to become CTPs, astronauts/cosmonauts, so a section on 'notable students' will also be appearing some time. Any other ideas and/or suggestions? Thanks. --TraceyR (talk) 23:05, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Aircraft available to ETPS
I have come across an ETPS handbook from 1952 which includes a complete syllabus for No. 11 Course (broken down to weekly activities), details of ETPS staff for courses 1 to 10 (1951) etc, including a list of aircraft available to No. 11 Course. Most of it, although very interesting, would be hard to incorporate into the article. Perhaps the list of aircraft would be valuable as a snapshot from 1952; I suspect that it would be very difficult to create a list article for the aircraft available to each course, so is there room in the article for this 1952 (actually "Autumn 1951") list? --TraceyR (talk) 22:15, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
 * 4 - Lincoln 2
 * 1 - Valetta
 * 1 - Viking
 * 3 - Mosquito T3
 * 3 - Meteor 4
 * 2 - Seafury 10
 * 2 - Firefly T.1
 * 4 - Vampire 5
 * 1 - Devon
 * 1 - Anson 21
 * 2 - Oxford
 * 1 - Dominie
 * 3 - Athena
 * 1 - Chipmunk
 * 1 - Auster
 * 2 - Olympia

Auto-expand collapsed tables
I have made the tables of trophy winners collapsible and collapsed, which I think significantly improves the article. However clicking on a footnote which refers to a collapsed table does nothing, which is confusing. I have posted a request for help about auto-expanding collapsed tables when clicking on a footnote which references a (hidden) entry. Any ideas as to how to achieve this? Thanks. --TraceyR (talk) 15:04, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

'The first of its type'?
Rawlings and Sedgwick state the the ETPS was the first such school "with the possible exception of Germany". Can anyone shed light on this "possible exception"? Thanks. --TraceyR (talk) 07:15, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

List of Commanding officeers
There is a gap in the list of COs, to which an IP editor has twice added his father's name ("Added Wg. Cdr. Radley, 1991-94. Second time I have added this, and while I appreciate documentary evidence would be the ideal, he's my father, so you can rest assured I have every reason to know where we were posted!"). I have looked for sources to fill this gap, without success. Perhaps someone can provide a source so that this info can be added. Thanks.--TraceyR (talk) 10:40, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
 * R.P. Radley was promoted to Wing Commander in January 1991 but not much more found at the moment. MilborneOne (talk) 12:03, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added tag to http://www.etps.qinetiq.com/platforms/Pages/
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110616071627/http://www.aiaa.org/sections/sh/events/archives/04_10_13_thomasmorgenfeld.html to http://www.aiaa.org/sections/sh/events/archives/04_10_13_thomasmorgenfeld.html
 * Added tag to http://www.yakovlevs.com/Pilots/JimSchofield/tabid/74/

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Source for Trophy Winner
The reference for Todd C. Ericson’s 2001 McKenna and Hawker Hunter awards cites the Daily Telegraph, but a nice person at WP:RX looked this up and could not find the text in the London Daily Telegraph. Does anyone know which Daily Telegraph was the actual source? Thank you, Skeet Shooter (talk) 20:04, 11 May 2020 (UTC)


 * looking back at the version history, I think you may have added the reference to the Daily Telegraph for Todd C. Ericsson’s trophies. Do you recall which Daily Telegraph was the source (e.g. London, Sydney, etc)? I wanted to use this reference for an article about Ericson on which I’m working. And thank you for all you’ve done to improve the Empire Test Pilots' School article. Skeet Shooter (talk) 18:43, 12 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Oh dear! That is all so long ago :-( Thanks for the kind words about the article. I see that my last edit on this article was in 2011. Sadly I can only assume that this would have been the London Daily Telegraph. Things have changed so much since then - even getting acccess to the DT archive is not straightforward. I'm sure that you'll have checked Flight International's archive too, which was possibly my major source at the time. The Editor there was extremely helpful. Have you approached the School itself? Good luck with your search. TraceyR (talk) 18:03, 5 June 2020 (UTC)


 * No problem. As you said, it was along time ago and some sources are difficult to access. Thank you for the suggestions. I will follow up on the items you mentioned. Cheers! Skeet Shooter (talk) 16:49, 7 June 2020 (UTC)