Talk:Ernest Smith

Untitled
Spelling: Smoky or Smokey? needs a link to "SMOKY" Smith

Nickname "Smoky":

Vancouver prepares for funeral for Second World War hero Aug, 03 2005 - 8:00 PM

VANCOUVER/CKNW(AM980) -- Funeral services for Canada's last surviving recipient of the Victoria Cross will be almost as important as those held for royalty. Ernest "Smoky" Smith died at his Vancouver home Tuesday.

The 91-year-old was a hero during the Second World War.

Arrangements for his burial are still being made, but next week, his body will lie in state for one day. Then, up to 300 veterans will march in his honour over the Burrard Street Bridge for a memorial at St. Andrew's Wesley Church.

Smith's friend and fellow veteran Clifford Chadderton says he already had his nickname before he enlisted with the Seaforth Highlanders. "He was a sprinter in New Westminster before the war. He was very fast at 100 yards. The media would be calling him Alva Smith. That doesn't sound right, so somebody gave him the name ‘Smoky’."

In 1944, Smith singlehandedly fought-off German tanks and troops during a battle in Italy.

source: www.cknw.com (radio station CKNW Vancouver)

Copyright?
Is the reprint of the London Gazette article a copyright violation? Regardless, should we reprinting entire articles? Perhaps just a few quotes are adequate? --61.247.237.10 13:29, 10 August 2005 (UTC)


 * The London Gazette is subject to Crown copyright in the UK, which, according to our article, since the Copyrights, Designs and Patents Act 1988 came into force, expires 50 years after the date of publication. This text was published over 60 years ago, so copyright will have expired in many other jurisdictions too.  But you are right: if we can keep it, we should summarise the citation here and transwiki the full text to wikisource. -- ALoan (Talk) 16:48, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Private, Corporal or Sergeant
Is is true that Smokey was promoted 10 times, only to be nocked down from the rank of Corporal to the rank of Private 9 times ? Dowew 17:55, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

I am unaware of how many times he was promoted but I can plainly state that the later part of this section was factualy incorrect. The claim that "he remains the only Canadian private to be awarded the VC" can easily be disproven by the list of other Canadian recipients. Pte John Chipman Kerr, Pte Michael James O'Rourke or Pte Cecil John Kinross to name the first few I have noticed. I have removed the claim that he was the only private to have received the award.


 * In a recent documentary series on Canadian VCs (broadcast on History Channel), his story included the information that when taken from the front line to a village behind Canadian lines to receive his VC, the MPs took him and locked him in the brig overnight. They said his reputation preceded him and they didn't want him wandering alone in town the night before the ceremony (something about liquor and women may have been said, but my memory of the details fails me).  They made sure he was in respectable condition in the morning as they escorted him to meet the various officers and the press at the ceremony.  In an interview in the broadcast, he chuckled at his reputation for conduct in those days.


 * While some might see this as a negative aspect of his memory, I thought of it as an interesting insight into a brave but somewhat "independent" soldier. His obvious humour in remembering the story showed he did not reveal a great deal of regret over whatever actions contributed to his discipline problems, but perhaps he saw it as a kind of youthful exuberance in the face of war.Michael Daly 20:48, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

And here: http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/ernest-smoky-smith-i-was-never-afraid-to-shoot-thats-what-youre-paid-for/ 75.158.108.104 (talk) 05:15, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

According to the the Globe & Mail it was nine times. The article also addresses his "independent" nature referred to above:

''He went through war and life "raising hell." Smokey did for good order and discipline what Don Cherry does for grammar and diction. He was promoted to corporal nine times and "busted" back to private nine times. It was fortuitous he was awarded the Victoria Cross. He couldn't win a Good Conduct Medal if he lived to be 150.''

"some might see this as a negative aspect of his memory". It is only politicians and their lackies that worry about such stuff, or even expect it of people. And hence, the politian's and VIP's speeches at his memorial almost all contained the same line. "He was a soldier's soldier." They read it with pride, gusto, and no idea it was a euphemism for: "No one could ever call him a general's soldier."

As for being locked up. Both times. The first time he received the medal he was literally locked up the night before. The second time; this time in London, to be by the King in person, guards were placed outside his door. Presumably, as literal guest of His Majesty, the door on digs they provided weren't the kind that lock from the outside. (Despite "as a guest of His Majesty" being an English expression for "doing time" (in prison)). Twice is standard practice for non-postumus top medals. A quickie job with the nearest senior officer, just in case, then later, a formal one.

Antifesto (talk) 23:20, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

Naming
Per Naming conventions (common names): Middle names should be avoided unless they are the most common form of a name (as in, say, John Wilkes Booth).

Media reports have avoided almost any reference to "Alvia," so this is clearly not a John Wilkes Booth situation. The article be located at either Ernest Smith or Ernest "Smokey" Smith. I personally favour the former. -The Tom 04:51, 14 August 2005 (UTC)


 * I disagree, whenever I have come accross references to him on sites like the Dep of Vet affairs or the War amps, he is always called "Ernest Alvia Smith". - Furthurmore, to avoid disambig problems ( Im sure he can't be the only person in the world named Ernest Smith) Dowew 20:44, 14 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Found some examples of other Ernest Smiths :


 * A Professsor at the University of Colorado
 * A Scenic Artist in several films
 * Cinematrographer in the 1920' s
 * Birth name of an actor named Sly Smith is "Ernest Smith"
 * an American painter
 * a surgeon in Nashville


 * Futhurmore his Order of Canada citation lists him as Ernest Aliva Smith Dowew 02:53, 4 September 2005 (UTC)


 * So does the OBC Dowew 02:56, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

Funeral photo
The text on the image page says he is the "last living recipient of the Victoria Cross". I have deleted "last living" as obviously there are living recipients. If it should be last living WWII recipient please amend the text again. Tyrenius 02:04, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

He is not the last living WWII recipient, he was how ever the last Canadian recipient in any campaign. From a Canadian perspective the original wording was more accurate then the correction. However now that he has passed away, any reference to him being alive is incorrect. A moot point I guess.

Copyright problem removed
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