Talk:Eurasian eagle-owl

Untitled
Is the all capitalization correct for this bird's name? -- Zoe


 * Moved. --mav

Should there be linkage to greek goddess Athena's pet owl "Bubo"?
 * Good idea. Be bold yada yada.... --LiamE 10:38, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Done. ;o) dllu (talk) 07:24, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Reintroduction
Can there be a rference put in concerning the reintroduction of Eagle Owls to England, which went unoticed for over 6 years. Now there are successful breeding pairs in northern England.
 * As I understand it - and I did a bit of research on it last night - its no so much a reintroduction as a repopulation by escaped (ringed) birds. As these birds were native to Britain until relatively recently it is not too surprising that they will survive happily and even breed as they have reportedly been doing. Sightings of these birds are common if still a little shocking to those unaware of their presence. There was a piece on this on radio 4 last night but I missed it - can anyone fill me in on what it said? Owners of cats and small dogs should start to worry, methinks. Now if only one would take up residence near me to get rid of all those pesky pigeons... --LiamE 10:38, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Liam there was a hour long program on BBC2 tonight on the subject. Experts are still trying to establish wether the new population is derived from escaped/released birds or indeed migrants from the continent where they have recently had a population explosion. They did not come to any real onclusion, but did show taht one of the offspring from north yorkshire had been found dead (after hitting a pylon)in Shrpshire. Another intersting point was the adaptabilty of the birds shown on the continent. As the wiki article states eagle owls prefer to nest on cliff ledges.However, eagle owls are now common place in holland and belgium, which are notoriously flat. The owls have taken up residence in quarries and the program speculated on the eventual migration down into the south east. The program pointed out that the worries about eagle owls feeding off endangered birds and animals,cats, dogs and livestock were currenty unfoundered as birds had only been observed taking rabbits and jackdaws. However, in areas of europe affleicted by the altest rabbit desease, the owls were hunting buzzard, barn owl and hedgehog. Still not much of a concern as the buzzard population has incresed by 500% in England. The program finished with "hardline" conservationists insisting that these birds should be stopped from repopulating the country as they are a risk to endangered species such as merlin, corncrake, etc. The also speculated taht the eagle owl had never been present in Britain despite the presenter offering proof of exitence back to the 1700's. Victorian twitchers observed them migrating into england off the east wind, usaully in autumn. Although according to the RSPCB the victorians couldn't posiibly tell what an eagle owl was. Although i would think that the 2m wingspan was a clue. The RSBCB seemed worryingly opposed to the birds and even advertised the fact that they were not protected in this country. However, i remember the same reservations over the wild boar populations down in kent/sussex 10 years ago, now they advertise their presenc on the nature trails. Personally i think the more the more large vicious predators in britian the better!


 * Thanks very much 86.13617.159! Annoyingly I missed the program but what you've written about it ties in with what I've found. Aparently there was a reintroduction program in Germany a few years back which was successful and numbers increased quite rapidly. Increases (from what level I don't know) were soon seen in the Low Countires and it is thought that the increase there was a mix of escapes and westward migration of some of the German birds and/or their offspring. As for the birds preferring rocky habitat I think this may in fact be a slight fallacy in that if left alone by man (its only real threat) it would live anywhere where there is safe nesting and abundant food - a forest (or even an urban park) with a very large unpredated population of rabbits etc would be excellent habitat for them one would have thought. It might well be that they choose these rocky areas to stay away from man. Apparently they are able to hunt well in any forest that is not too dense (due to their size) and often choose to settle in ares of broken forest and open areas. They are found from the Sahara to Siberia so are obvioulsly not too fussy about habitat if left to their own devices. As for Victorians not being able to identify them - well that just sounds like rubbish to me. Weren't the Victorians avid collectors of birds eggs? How could they have done this without being able to identify and differentiate between species of birds? And what on earth could you possibly confuse it with? A barn owl? More likely a barn door. As for whether or not they have ever been present in the country at all, well it would seem very odd to me if a young bird looking for new territory would never have made the short flight across the channel of its own accord despite easily being able to see from one side to the other. Not to mention the fact that is warmer in the winter this side of the channel and therefore there is more prey. As for their possible threat to other species again this sounds like rubbish. The numbers of of predators and prey reaches equilibrium without either becomming extinct except when our influence comes to bear. The "damage" to wildlife caused by even a few hundred large owls is frankly insignificant compared to the damage done to ecosystems by domestic cats - the only animal where a single specimin caused the extinction of a species. To my mind there would be some poetic justice in a bird going after cats for a change. Anyway - I'll do some more research and try to colloate it all into a reintroduction / repopulation section for the artclie over the next week or so - any more info gladly accepted. I'll also expand the habitat info and add some detail on range. --LiamE 13:04, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

Liam. I've finally created a user account. I just read on the BBC website that Eagle Owls have now been sighted in Northern Ireland. Heres the link - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4444296.stm- The article speculates that they have migrated from the England or, as with the last article, are escaped pets. Peter Freeman 13:57, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

Ballooned stats
Yet another case of animal size exaggeration: the wingspan is nowhere near 200 cm, but rather 138–170 cm (according to Mullarney, Svensson & Zetterström). Also, it's quite clearly smaller than the Golden Eagle (1.6–4.2 kg vs. 2.8–6.7 kg). --Anshelm &#39;77 23:26, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Wingspan of up to 2m is supported in several online sources I have looked at, please bear in mind they have a vast range and the largest are only found to the northeastern extremity of their range, which is not in Europe, making your source questionable. Yes a female golden eagle is significantly larger than a male eagle owl but on the other hand a female eagle owl is typically a bigger bird than a male golden eagle. The comparison is there as an aid for people that know few birds, not as the most accurate possible size similarity. The golden eagle has a huge range and is well know outside of the field. Few other birds of prey of this size are. --LiamE (talk) 14:47, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

"Several online sources" is just about the poorest reference there is. Not to mention how obscure the statement "up to 2 m" with no given range really is – mathematically 2 m can mean anything between 1.50 and 2.49 m. Mullarney et al. is perhaps the best source for Western Palearctic bird wingspans as its spans are based on recent unstretched measurements of live birds rather than rigid museum specimes nor have they copied the data from previously published literature. In other words corrected, more accurate figures compared to its predecessors. And even with the old (and erroneus) figures the highest I've ever seen in print is 190 cm. Note that 138–170 cm already is a very vast range, with the upper end being 23 % greater than the lower. 200 cm would be nearly 18 % greater than 170 cm or 45 % greater than 138 cm! If we are to assume that a bird with 170 cm wingspan weighs 4.2 kg, a bird of same proportions with a 200 cm span should weigh 6.8 kg or 62 % above the documented maximum, thus demonstrating the absurdity of the 200 cm claim. Geographical variation does make comparisons difficult, but at least here in Finland Pohjolan linnut värikuvin (von Haartman, Lindén, Linkola, Suomalainen & Tenovuo 1967) gave an average of 3.025 kg for the female Eagle Owl (nominate bubo) and 3.655 kg for the male Golden Eagle (nominate chrysaetos) or 21 % greater than the female owl. Based on averages for both sexes the eagle is 56 % heavier than the owl. Among WP birds Bean Goose would be a closer match; though if a well-known bird of similar size is not to be found, no comparison is better than forced comparison.

But because Mullarney et al. indeed is WP exclusive, there admittedly is a possibility that Eagle Owls reach greater sizes outside this region; but bear in mind that even 10 cm would be a significant increase in wingspan. The Siberian subspecies B. b. sibiricus is said to be the largest, however there is little data to be found, and with that little included a Norwegian B. b. bubo specimen of 4.2 kg. (Owls of Europe, Mikkola 1983) remains the largest I've seen in zoological literature. Whatever the exact size of sibiricus may be, if I'll ever see unquestionable evidence of a live Bubo bubo with a natural spread of 200 cm or more I'll eat my left sock.

--Anshelm &#39;77 (talk) 17:29, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

More info
I checked up a couple of books from the University of Lapland Library, ''The Birds of the Western Palearctic. Volume IV. Terns to Woodpeckers. (Cramp 1985) and The Birds of the Soviet Union. Vol. 1.'' (Dementiev & Gladkov 1951) to be more specific.

Wing lengths according to Cramp:
 * B. b. bubo #1 ♂ 430–453 mm (avg. 444 mm n=9) ♀ 463–513 mm (avg. 482 mm n=12)
 * B. b. bubo #2 ♂ 435–480 mm (avg. 448 mm n=23) ♀ 455–500 mm (avg. 473 mm n=29)
 * B. b. sibiricus ♂ 435–480 mm (avg. 456 mm n=9) ♀ 472–515 mm (avg. 491 mm n=8)

Of the subspecies included in both sources (the ones found within the areas of Western Palearctic and former Soviet Union, although classification may have changed since then) sibiricus averages largest in wing length. Compared to Cramp's sample with the lower values, ruthenus and turcomanus appear to average larger than nominate bubo as well, however neither exceed the maximum (513 mm) achieved by bubo. In fact, Dementiev et al. put the nominate form's maximum at 520 mm, while Cramp's figures for sibiricus cited Dementiev. The only wingspan I found for sibiricus was 1,586 mm by Dementiev for a single specimen. Though the full spans by Cramp (160–188 cm) and Dementiev (1,550–1,800 mm for bubo) best be treated unreliable, and inferior to Mullarney et al.

The 138–170 cm range in wingspan by Mullarney et al. may already include sibiricus, as it's found on the Ural region on the edge of the WP area. At the most generous, the wing length of sibiricus (female average) can be called 3.8 % greater than that of bubo (lower value female average by Cramp). If the range is presumed to exclude sibiricus, with the 3.8 % differential applied to span – which may or may not yield correct results – it would still put the maximum of sibiricus at a mere 176 cm; a far cry from 200 cm. These figures may have been exceeded by an extraordinarily large individual, but unlikely by a margin of nearly 18 %.

--Anshelm &#39;77 (talk) 18:11, 17 March 2008 (UTC)


 * The article is genarally poor and it does not mention subspecias at all. Please proceed and make a subspecies section. I would like to contribute on the subject with info by a birds' identification guide, but I am not sure if it is violation of copyrights.--94.69.241.213 (talk) 21:51, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

Name origin
Bubo as a word is much older than the middle ages, considering Vergil uses it in the Aenid (IV, 462). I've removed the unsubstantiated statement that the word is based on the owl's call. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.50.187.168 (talk) 12:58, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

It is actually quite interesting, that there is no official word in English for this very popular owl since it can not be found in GB. In Germany for example it is called "Uhu" because of his call. "Uhuuuh" -- 2A02:908:E35:A6C0:258D:45A6:7674:C706 (talk) 07:53, 26 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Encourage the Uhu to setup residence in GB, America, NZ, Australia, or South Africa and you'll probably have a popular English name.-- Eostrix  (&#x1F989; hoot hoot&#x1F989;) 13:24, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

Could it be?
Could it be that the Eagle-owl is the owl that is depicted in the cave engraving at Chauvet France? Photos of the engraving look like the depicted owl has two prominent tufts of feathers on its head like this owl does. Just a thought. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.191.112.60 (talk) 09:10, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Have done a little reading myself, and there are some things I find confusing and would love to get an answer to (please pardon my ignorance, I am simply seeking information:)

1) Eagle owls appear to have certain habitat requirements:  cliffs/trees to nest in, small mammals and birds to hunt, and a specific climate range. The UK has (and always has to some degree) met most of the above. Could it be that eagle owls were native to the island but were victims of severe persecution and/or deforestation, possibly predating the available records?  (Keep in mind that bears existed until a little after the Romans left, the beaver "bit the big one" around the Middle Ages, and the wolf was gone from below the Scottish border c. the War of the Roses.) Could it be that they lived past the Ice Age but didn't survive superstition? Has anyone tried to check the fossil record yet or run probability models based on other related species?

2) Lambs. This seems to be an issue I have seen addressed in a certain BBC documentary.  The concern over the bird taking lambs. Wool is a big business, don't get me wrong, but in nations where the bird has never totally gone away are there any proven records of lambs being taken?  Would a referendum simply asking farmers to pen the lambs at twilight be of any use should numbers explode? (It's an owl, not a harpy!)

3) Some official lists seems to accept birds which are clearly not native at all to Britain, merely established (certain pheasants that were introduced in the 19th century from Asia, for example) and then turn around and call this bird a nuisance never meant to be in Britain.  Why?  I can understand perfectly concern over its effect on birds like the capercaillie or corn-crake, but shouldn't it beg further  questions as to 1) why restoration efforts have always been limited to specific grounds when the final objective is full restoration 2) why so much lip service is given to a balanced ecology but little investment is put into restoring predators and 3) whose interest does it serve to keep this bird's numbers down while other ignored/invasive species have little intrinsic value to an ecosystem?

4) Has anybody considered this bird might be a godsend if it is released in areas where the grey squirrel has practically declared its own republic, the numbers are so high? (The eagle owl's cousin across the sea eats them like candy.)   Just a thought....  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.155.194.216 (talk) 11:55, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

1-I'd find it remarkable that birds native just across the channel would never make the journey across by themselves despite it being a very short flight relative to the ranges of tracked jeuvenile birds. It would have been native to Britain until a couple of hundred years ago or so.

2-They certainly can take lambs and young deer. Once upon a time a lamb might mean the difference between starvation and survival for subsistance farmers so any threat was mercilessly eradicated. That is not the case today and we can have subsidies for such loses to preserve predators. Its an owl, not an eagle.

3-Its a case of what suits I think.

4-They are not preferred prey and you'd need loads to keep the population down. Not realistic really. --LiamE (talk) 19:59, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Liam,

Thanks for the clarification. A case of what suits, eh? [Frowning, grumbling] What is so scary about the predators over there? Oy ve! I live in New York City. If you were to hop on a train and go about thirty miles northwest, you'd find yourself face to face with bears and bobcats. Go up the Hudson River in winter and early spring and you'll see the bald eagle having what can only be described as an all you can eat buffet of fish. A few years ago there was a coyote loose in Central Park-did the entire city panic? No. He was caught, named Otis, and now dwells happily at the zoo (they are now waiting for a female so he can have a girlfriend.)

A cousin of mine works with naturalists on a daily basis (she works for Yellowstone) and I forwarded this to her and her friends. She told me that my suspicions are generally correct and says that bubo bubo DOES have very similar behavior to its smaller cousin bubo virginianus in many things except the ability to take larger prey (usually the great horned doesn't get dinner much above a jackrabbit.) She also told me that its avian prey base can be a problem to species like the peregrine and some buzzards. This could be a potential reason why they don't want its reintroduction yet. On the other hand, other places on the continent have these species living side by side so whatever predation there shall be shall be short lived: numbers may be able to take a hit provided there is some supportive work done on the weaker numbered species (including translocating, say, the capercaillie to a site not yet populated by eagle owls.)

Oh, and don't worry too much about the pigeons: the great horned nests up in the Bronx and occasionally makes an appearance in Manhattan. I would be very surprised if its eagle owl brethren doesn't someday look at portions of London and think, "mmm, what have we here-pigeons, rats, sparrows, and almost NO competition?!!! What a feast!!!"

Good luck! Shadowkitte5460


 * While its one thing to jump in a car and come face to face with bears and bobcats I still dare say there would be a vocal contingent of city dwellers who would get upset by them when they go and take their dog for a walk in the local park and find an owl there that is looking at their pet as dinner! Cases of that happening have come out in the news over the last couple of years here. Also you'd be suprised how many peregrins now live in London eating the pigeons. Rats and sparrows would be harder to come by as rats hide in sewers and the sparrow population has crashed. As for taking other birds of prey as I understand it they are not preferred prey (which is normally rabbits and such) but rather the eagle owl will not tolerate competition from them in its range. --LiamE (talk) 20:27, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

While you are correct that the rats live in the sewers it does not mean that they eat down there: they must come up some time and I am absolutely certain they do: there are just too many tempting dumpsters full of garbage, too many homes within easy reach of sewer pipes, too many park visitors that feed the birds with seeds, bread, and popcorn (not to mention the potential goodies left behind in trash cans or chucked because of indigestion.) Currently London has about 60 million plus rats and Lord knows how many mice within its borders even with the falcons. Furthermore, Greater London and certainly portions of the Home Counties have hares, rabbits, stoats, songbirds (I should have been more clear when I said sparrows; I was merely giving an example) foxes, fish, and a few others might be found at least within a 25 km radius of the center of the city-for a raptor that size nesting in Richmond Park, any point within that radius is a short flight and provides a nicely stocked larder.

Second, I seriously doubt an owl is going to behave like a French epicure or Michelin critic on holiday: preferred does not mean exclusive. For example, you just illustrated yourself this fact when you mentioned the dogs, and when the BBC mentioned the lambs. The preferred prey of the eagle owl are members of the lagomorph family. (The same is incidentally true of the great horned.) however, the primary goal of a wild bird is survival, not gourmet. Competitor birds like buzzards, falcons, and barn owls are not preferred prey, true, but their chicks are vulnerable to being eaten as well-it's a dual purpose behavior in that it provides nourishment and gets rid of enemies.

Third, I swear I do know what I am talking about. For roughly twenty five years in both Canada and the U.S., long extirpated animals of all kinds have been returning to within city limits and finding both urban and suburban life happy (it started with white tailed deer and has not ceased even with garbage control.)  Boston has had to contend with moose lately as every once in a while one shall wander into town and its northern suburbs (like Salem) even more so. Vancouver and Los Angeles have to deal with cougars-this was unheard of up until a few years ago. New York City has members of most of the raptor family either nesting or hunting here as does Montreal-many of these haven't been seen in over a century. Take it from one who has watched this happen over most of her life-panic, superstition, and fear will not help anyone, man or beast. Education on how to coexist helps much more, including public involvement. I certainly feel for the folks who may lose their pets, but a wiser approach might be to simply warn them to walk Rover on a leather lead and warn them not walk Rover before/ during dawn or at/just after dusk. No owl will be stupid enough to attack a dog accompanied by a human unless it got too close to the chicks and most owls I have seen dislike areas of heavy human traffic (a noisy high street would be like a Black Sabbath concert on steroids to an owl.)

Fourth, the positives may outweigh the negatives. Grey squirrel numbers in London, for example, have completely wiped out the native red. The grey squirrel is a bit bigger and much more aggressive than the red, but won't stand a chance against a very large owl (furthermore owls cannot catch squirrelpox.) The total number for all of Great Britain is 3-5 million greys to 120 thousand reds-that is more than enough greys to sustain a population of owls and my guess is that London already sustains quite a few greys in those trees. It might not be a bad idea to give the eagle owl a chance in cities: if it eats the squirrels it shall keep the numbers of greys down and reduce the instances of squirrelpox as its carriers are now dinner. This could give the red squirrel a better chance to breed and give actions already in place a boost. (It might even have an affect on some plants in areas outside London-with fewer smaller mammals eating the plants it could give a boost to already rarer plants, allowing them to seed more effectively.) --Shadowkittie5460 (talk) 04:36, 18 April 2008 (UTC) ---

Will the Eurasian Eagle Owl nest in an urban area with only a single big tree? I need it so I can get rid of that filthy neighbour's cat that slashes the garbage bags and those annoying pekinese muts of another neighbour of mine, that always take a wizz in front of my door. I have a huge rodent problem too (that lousy cat only eats my garbage) and it would also be good if it would attack some other small to medium size mammals in my neiberhood, those screaming brats next door. Waiting forward for your reply. <---HereGoesTheNeighbourhood!!!---> —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.118.191.48 (talk) 20:49, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

(Smiling, chuckling, shaking head..) I understand. I am no fan of the pekingese dog..too small and it's hard to tell if they are snorting or sneezing....

Eagle owls (or at least members of this species) prefer to nest in caves or on rocky ledges. If this is not available, they may try to take over old nesting sites of large raptors (buzzards and eagles, mainly.) As for the tree, ask yourself a few questions: where is it located (is it near power lines? What species of tree is it and how old is the tree? (A tree older than 40 years would be preferable, for example, for an English oak or sycamore:  raptors that size need a tree able to support the weight of a larger nest.)  How heavy is the traffic nearby? Are there other things to attract predators aside from rats and mice? (squirrels, shrews, hedgehogs, songbirds?)

When you find the answers, get back to me.--Shadowkittie5460 (talk) 04:36, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Distribution range
Just a detail. Crete is well documented to have eagle owls, but it is excluded by the distribution map. I'll provide link about it soon. --Draco ignoramus sophomoricus (talk) 22:02, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

It's in Britain now. Just saw a documentary from the BBC program, "The Natural World" indicating it is spreading throughout England. It got full protection from the British Gov'mt as of 2007.

Requested move
– IOC capitalizes Eagle and Owl and uses hyphen for this group of birds. Requesting move to synch with IOC spelling. Pvmoutside (talk) 15:20, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Eurasian Eagle-owl → Eurasian Eagle-Owl
 * Pharaoh Eagle-owl → Pharaoh Eagle-Owl
 * Cape Eagle-owl → Cape Eagle-Owl
 * Spotted Eagle-owl → Spotted Eagle-Owl
 * Greyish Eagle-owl → Greyish Eagle-Owl
 * Fraser's Eagle-owl → Fraser's Eagle-Owl
 * Spot-bellied Eagle-owl → Spot-bellied Eagle-Owl
 * Barred Eagle-owl → Barred Eagle-Owl
 * Shelley's Eagle-owl → Shelley's Eagle-Owl
 * Verreaux's Eagle-owl → Verreaux's Eagle-Owl
 * Dusky Eagle-owl → Dusky Eagle-Owl
 * Akun Eagle-owl → Akun Eagle-Owl


 * ✅. Jafeluv (talk) 13:37, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Dietary biology of the Eurasian eagle-owl
This article should be summarized here. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 09:40, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

File:Bubo bubo sibiricus - 01.JPG}} to appear as POTD soon
Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File: will be appearing as picture of the day on February 1, 2017. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2017-02-01. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page so Wikipedia doesn't look bad. :) Thanks! — howcheng  {chat} 01:39, 29 January 2017 (UTC)