Talk:Eurohound

Needs history section
There is no information as to who first crossbred the Eurohound, or when, or in which country in "Scandinavia" (Norway? Sweden? Finland?), or any list of race successes for that matter. None of the references or external links provide any of this information, and most of the pages on the Eurohound online point to this Wikipedia article. Very frustrating.

70.105.214.239 (talk) 05:17, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Need photos
The dog in the photo looks like a classic sprint Alaskan. The photo is also on the Seekins hounds and horses web site, where it appears in a pedigree indicating it's "Rita Mae". Rita Mae's pedigree is posted also, and it looks like an Alaskan pedigree both sides. (Champaigne, Welch). Unless anybody objects I'd like to replace the photo with a different one.

--Heathera skidog 22:14, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Modified the image with one of Heather's pictures from Egil Ellis's kennel in Alaska.

--Davemeisenheimer 03:15, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

NOT SO FAST! THIS IS FAR MORE COMPLICATED THAN IT SEEMS
There seems to be a great deal of confusion here because of the definition of the breed. I have a 'rescue home' where a few dogs are adopted, and far more as fostered, and I have always tended towards Malamutes, and for some reason the last few years, I've been mostly Siberian Husky. For example **MY** "Eurohound" is SIBERIAN HUSKY Xross "European Bird Dog" see Wiki "gun dog" which appears to be a 'bird dog' - please note the short entry and the Sentence that starts out "A bird dog is a type of gun dog. . .". So it appears that the term "European Bird Dog' is correct, though the specific breed of this dog is unknown. And yes, I am aware of the perils of any N=1 generalization, but here I think it's appropriate because I got a 'Eurohound' which does not seem to fit a 'standard' and comes from a well established kennel of decades standing which has very different results from what is stated here. My, N=1 is only an example of some traits I have found common among other "Eurohound" owners, and my examples seem a common fit to what I've heard in conversations over the past 4-5 years or so.

This "Eurohound" came from a "Eurohound" kennel as a gift/rescue and the owner was breeding SIBERIAN Husky's with various "European Bird Dogs" (see above) looking for a very fast sled dog. He used various bird dogs, by the time I got him, the exact lineage was lost and was given a very generalized background.

However I did notice several differences -- being reasonably new to Siberian Husky's having slowly migrated from Malamutes as my rescues became more and more Siberian than Malamute -- from other sled dogs and was given different information than that found in the article.

1) The feet are webbed, thus giving the dog greater area on the ground for more traction and thrust on various snows (I'm Northern Sierra Nevada snow; Eastern and Western slopes, from dry powder on the East to the heavy wet Western slope snows).

2) The dog I have seldom 'runs' but 'trots' just as fast as the other dogs 'run' and all the dogs do generally about 15 miles a day as a normal exercise (depending on age and severity of 'rescue problems'). This Eurohound's speed is about a constant7 MPH (11.25 Km/H) on her own, and possess the ability to sprint faster than my truck can go in low range on the road if she sees a deer -- so that long-leg speed is from say 10 miles of running at 7-8 MPH (16 Km of running at about 11.25-12/9 Km/H) to a burst to 20+ MPH (32+ KmH) with no trouble in a sustained sprint, and he can then return to a trot at say 10 MPH (16 Km/H)with a back so steady that I could probably put a glass on it and it would stay there it's so flat and solid and held so stable, compared to the other Siberians, or to the slower Malamutes his legs reach all the way to heaven, so he takes just a few easy trots to a Siberians 'gallop', and still has the speed and energy to out-run the Siberians on a deer chase through the woods.

3) Also, I was asked if I wanted a long-haired or short haired dog from the same brood, so apparently the Xross I had produced long hair AND short hair dogs, and I noticed that the short haired dog had the very traditional 'double coat' of all Siberians -- VERY much like a short clipped Siberian Husky or Malamute which I do in the hot California Summers.  I was told that this was an F-1 generation Xross brood using a different 'European Bird Dog". So apparently there are long and short haired dogs in the same litter, and I was told that "this is very common" -- for that specific Kennel. I know the same is true of other kennels as well, not having SEEN in person, but having talked to other owners or breeders who have the same F-1 'split-litter' experience.

So, perhaps like the Alaskan Husky that comes from God only Knows how many breeds, coming from what-ever seemed a good idea at the time and was available to mix in during the Alaskan Gold Rush, the Eurohound my also fit this description -- and have sub-classes, for example the Alaskan Husky vs. the Mackenzie River Husky. And let's look at the article under Alaskan Husky:

"The Alaskan is the sled dog of choice for world-class . . . [races] [which] are invariably won by teams of Alaskan huskies, or of Alaskans crossed with hounds or gun dogs". "'''Alaskans Crossed with . . . gun dogs. . ." -- Isn't that, by definition EXACTLY WHAT A EUROHOUND IS?'''

SO, IS A "EUROHOUND' JUST A SUBCATEGORY OF AN ALASKAN HUSKY -- IF WE KEEP THE WKIKI INTERNALLY CONSISTENT? 

I think that there may be a reason for a lot of the confusion - that the "Eurohound' MAY have started reasonably 'pure' like the Alaskan Husky, but has branched out into many different sub-types, that it begins to become impossible to talk about it as a unified breed, but rather as a grouping of traits which lend themselves to various types of sledding but which may exclude the 'freighter' category of the Malamute?

Until we decide if we are going to do the TRADITIONAL AND ORIGINAL "Eurohound", AND SO STATE, OR if we are going to use the term as it is often used in the 'field', I fear that this article will be stuck in the murkiness that we find it in right now -- when I went to find out about the "Eurohound" I now own -- I found an entirely different dog described -- yet this dog came from a "Eurohound" Kennel of long-standing before the owner was forced to take profitable work to support a far smaller kennel near a larger city where he works as a computer Engineer of some kind or another. Yet his dogs range from along the crest of the Northern Cascades down to the middle reaches of the Sierra Nevada, and out into the western desert areas or Washington, Oregon, and Nevada – AND they turn in very constant and respectable times in races – and, here is the confusion, are all called "Eurohounds" by their owners, not “Alaskan Xrosses”. Pgalioni (talk) 02:32, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Actually it is quite simple
'A Eurohound is a type of dog, not a breed, not'' an "emerging breed", but rather always a specific crossbreed. There is no "traditional and original". The Eurohound is a distinct type of working dog, created through constantly changing crosses of Pointers and Huskies, and defined by its work, racing. It exists. It is not a Pointer, not a Husky, and not a breed.''' A Eurohound is bred for racing, not appearance or "purity". However they look and run, they are all the same Eurohound type. There are no subtypes. Looks are irrelevant.

A Eurohound is no more a subcategory of any kind of Husky than it is a subcategory of any kind of Pointer.

The whole point of Eurohounds is that each breeding is different, depending on the needs of the musher. More Pointer in the mix, faster; more Husky, better endurance; and so on. Breeders (crossbreeders) of Eurohounds keep track of the exact percentages of mix in the dogs they are breeding.

What is generally meant by a dog "breed" is a dog registered with a kennel club as a particular breed (or who has "papers" that show the dog could be registered.) Purebred dogs of the same breed look alike, and can compete with others of the same breed in dog shows. People who work (or race) with their dogs tend not to care about appearance, breed purity, kennel club registrations or dog shows. They only care that the dog works (or runs) right. A Eurohound, since it is always some sort of cross (and usually not the same one twice) cannot be registered as a purebred with a kennel club, therefore it is not a breed. Even though they are not a breed and do not all look alike, as you note, the Eurohound dogs "are all called 'Eurohounds' by their owners." The Eurohound is a type of dog, not a purebred breed of dog.--Hafwyn (talk) 00:42, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

External links modified
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Changing mongrel to landrace
I have changed the link in the History section from mongrel to landrace. The mongrel dog page clearly states in the first sentence:


 * "A mongrel, mixed-breed dog, or mutt, is a dog that does not belong to one officially recognized breed and is not the result of intentional breeding."

Mongrel is clearly not the right term for these dogs. Eurohounds are a distinct enough variety of dog to have their own name, and they exist as the result of intentional breeding, for a purpose. I'm not convinced landrace is perfect, but it is a much better fit. From landrace:


 * "A landrace is a domesticated, locally adapted, traditional variety of a species of animal or plant that has developed over time, through adaptation to its natural and cultural environment of agriculture and pastoralism, and due to isolation from other populations of the species."

Eurohounds are better described as a landrace than a mongrel, although the descriptor is not perfect. The dogs are clearly locally adapted and isolated from other populations; but they are not an old breed, as the word "traditional" implies, and they are not used in agriculture or pastoralism. They have certainly adapted over time, however that time frame is shorter than what would be expected.

For now, this is a better word, however I don't think this terminology is settled. 2604:2D80:E594:3800:2C42:8723:46EA:952C (talk) 13:20, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Hello, a landrace develops without human intervention, these dogs are deliberately crossed from selected foundation breeds to achieve a specific aim. Cavalryman (talk) 20:51, 21 August 2020 (UTC).
 * You're absolutely right. I appreciate your edit to "crossbreed." That's more correct to me. 2604:2D80:E594:3800:2C42:8723:46EA:952C (talk) 21:49, 21 August 2020 (UTC)