Talk:European hornet

Samontenegro (talk) 03:26, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

Diet? Geographical Range?
Why is there nothing in the article about the diet, feeding habits, or geographical range of these animals? That's pretty basic stuff.Sailboatd2 (talk) 14:22, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Information on the resources these hornets utilize for nest production and for their diet would have been useful to frame the type of environment the European hornet would make their habitat. sydney_tj 6:46, 11 September 2014 (UTC)


 * The article keeps stating they are carnivorous, but they are omnivorous, also eating fallen fruit, for example. Stub Mandrel (talk) 12:21, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

European hornet in US
Excuse me sir, but I have had personal experience with this insect in the New York City area, and my prior comments were not irrelevant. Each May or so, in some parts of the City's "outer boroughs", this insect builds its small nests in the spaces between wooden window frames and surrounding brick. For whatever reason, when it discovers a way into the house from the nest, it (most likely the queen) relentlessly attacks any light source or visable motion. It is nearly 1.5 inches long, "buzzes" or does fly-bys once or twice before stinging, then goes for the butt or the back of the neck. Its stinger is about .25" long, about .0625" thick, curved, with 2 parallel featherlike structures. In my experience, it's the most robust of the wasp/hornet/bee insects in the eastern US except for the Cicada-killer. It also seems a step below in intelligence - if that can be measured in insects - than social wasps, in its attraction to light and its inability to find its own nest when it has found a way into the house, which I believe is the motive for its attacks. 69.86.11.187
 * it is customary to sign comments (and login beforehand) so I've added your name. I agree with the comment from PiccoloNamek. wikipedia is no place for original research. Please see hornet for more recent info that might help. Widefox 12:22, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

warning - copyright material!
this article contains copyright material (marked as needing reference) Widefox 13:53, 30 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Actually, no, the passage you flagged is common knowledge and factual; no reference is required for it, no more than a reference would be required for stating that a hornet possesses four wings. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 138.23.134.119 (talk) 22:07, 6 December 2006 (UTC).
 * It's verbatim - please check http://www.vespa-crabro.de/hornets.htm "In males..." along with previous sentence except "female" changed to "queen" . I flagged it for that possible copyright infringement reason - not "common knowledge" - as I already stated above. I don't see how hiding this, instead of fixing helps. Please could you sign your comments. Widefox 13:45, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
 * If it was from an external source, then you should have said the source when you added the "copyrighted material" flag. I've changed the text so it is no longer verbatim. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 138.23.134.119 (talk) 19:08, 7 December 2006 (UTC).

Another Image
Here's a pic I took of what I think is a queen:. fintler (talk) 23:42, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Yellowjackets...
The manual of style is a bit vague on this, so I thought I'd seek opinions before macking changes. Basically, "yellowjacket" is US vernacular for predatory wasps, but the European hornet is a European species. My gut instinct would be to reword to more international term to avoid confusion. Thoughts? Jefffire (talk) 09:11, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Talk-page type material added
I removed this following section from "urban legends", which belongs here first for discussion:

To this object I have to note(another autor) as have many experience with Hornets even with Wasps and Honeybees that autor of text above just jump from the mean to the mean and is really far from the truth. In fact European hornets(at least that one living in the central Europe) are REALLY aggressive and really clever. Can occurs that they wait on you half and hour sitting on the tree in fron of your door just if you banged to the branch they sittin on. But it doesn't mean that they will stabbed immediately after see someone called human being.

European Hornets are more aggressive than Honeybee and Honeybee are much aggressive than Wasp. But aggressivity changes in case of defending nest in this case Hornets are not so much more aggressive than Honeybee(if at all) but still Wasp are much less aggressive when defending nest than Hornets or Honeybees. So definitely European Hornets are really aggressive and could occur that Hornet will attack immediately if someone will do something what hornet will see as limiting of his move. Probably it grounds from the fact that Hornets haven't natural predator.


 * Nonsense. Wasps are the most aggressive, attacking even when unprovoked. Honey bees are generally docile and I have been within inches of groups of hornets feeding (and once even a hornets' nest) on several occasions and not been stung by one (yet!)Stub Mandrel (talk) 12:29, 12 May 2018 (UTC)


 * I have been stung twice on one occasion! When my mom cuts my hair you can still see the spots, and that must have been eight years ago. They live somewhere in a group of trees near our house but are attracted to our lilac bushes, as well as other lilac bushes in the area. They also seem to have something of a sweet tooth (this is not scientifically proven), as I have known them to hollow out apples and defend pear trees. They are quite protective of these plants and will sting if we come within three feet or so of them when they're most active, which is actually about now in the late summer. They also seem to be attracted to light sources, and have crawled in our window ACs to get to the ceiling fan light. They once attacked my grandfather to get at his flashlight. I have heard (but not seen) that they will kill butterflies for sport. I often tell people "They won't kill you (unless you're allergic), but they will most certainly try."
 * - AAEexecutive (talk) 16:59, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Also, I forgot: They also get into our compost barrel.
 * - AAEexecutive (talk) 14:20, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

Mating
it would be nice if the article could expand on mating behavior and reproduction. The article briefly brings up how males leave the nest to go mate, but does not go into any more detail about the mating procedure. I think it would be beneficial to add this information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cnemelue (talk • contribs) 20:09, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

Whoever wrote that hornests are no more dangerous than other wasps obviously has no experience with hornets and has no idea what he is talking about. It is known that hornets are aggressive, unforgiving, dangerous and they don't stop attacking after one sting. That is a common knowledge here in Croatia, knowledge that comes from experience, not myths. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.138.63.38 (talk) 11:50, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Could Add More Detail
Overall a good article. As far as geographic distribution, it is unclear where this species’ range is and if that range has changed over time. The article also failed to mention how the hornets communicate among each other, if communication varies between workers and queens and males, and if different hives ever interact with one another. Rey ks (talk) 21:24, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

Need for more in depth social behavior
This page only touches on the idea of the European hornet being a social wasp. More information on the social interactions present should be added, as well as a better focus on the relationship between the queen and worker conflict. A simple search yields lots of interesting information about why European hornets specifically have a large "worker" caste that does not not reproduce. See article: http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00040-002-8277-z

Jamiehalpern (talk) 21:32, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

Reorganization
This article can be reorganized and expanded upon. The introduction should be a summary that briefly touches upon the more important information in each section of the article. Instead, it contains information that is not found anywhere else. There needs to be a section on behavior. The "Life Cycle" section is, right now, just a conflation of most the relevant information in article. It can be broadened to include nesting and mating subsections. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Micah.Steinbrecher (talk • contribs) 03:26, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

Predators
A section on the European hornet's predators would be beneficial. Peivaz 23:28, 11 September 2014

Velleius dilatatus
"European hornets do not have the rove beetle Velleius dilatatus living in their colonies." is stated in this article. From the Velleius dilatatus article : "The rove beetle Velleius dilatatus lives together with the European hornet Vespa crabro crabro."

One of them needs to be fixed - I don't know enough to do it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.159.67.94 (talk) 01:19, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

Major Deletions
I removed the following sections that were previously included in the article because they were uncited.

The European hornet (Vespa crabro), commonly known simply as the "hornet," or "bell hornet" in the mid-Atlantic region of the United States, is the largest European eusocial wasp, and the largest hornet in North America. The queen measures 25 to 35 mm (1–1.4 in) long; workers are 18–24 mm. In males, as in most members of the Aculeata, the antennae have 13 segments, while in females there are only 12; also as in other aculeates, the male abdomen has seven visible segments, while the female has six; females possess an ovipositor modified into a sting which is not barbed. See wasp and bee characteristics to help identify similar insects. European hornets do not have the rove beetle Velleius dilatatus living in their colonies.

Urban legends: European hornets are often mischaracterised as very aggressive and dangerous, and are greatly feared by some people. (In North America, this confusion follows from the fact the term "hornet" is also applied to the more common and much more defensive white-faced hornet, which is actually a type of yellowjacket rather than a true hornet.) Some people believe that "three stings from the European hornet can kill an adult human, and seven can kill a horse." These are common myths – a sting from a European hornet is no more dangerous than any other wasp sting, and European hornets are usually less aggressive than other wasps. In contrast, multiple Asian giant hornets stings are, in fact, more dangerous. While impressive due to their size and loud sound, European hornets are in fact much less aggressive than some of their smaller relatives, such as the German Wasp and the common wasp. When approached, European hornets can actually be seen to slowly crawl backwards and eventually flee, rather than attack. This can make it hard to remove hornets from indoors, if they happen to come in through an open window or door. Although not aggressive when encountered far from the nest, multiple workers will vigorously defend the nest if provoked. Nests can be approached without provocation (by moving slowly and not breathing towards the nest) to about 50 cm. Nests are usually not a problem outside buildings, but because they drip feces, a bad-smelling black liquid, nests inside sheds or walls can be a problem.

Life Cycle: The nest is founded in spring by a fertilized female known as the "queen". She generally selects sheltered places like dark hollow tree trunks. She first builds a series of cells (up to 50) out of chewed tree bark. The cells are arranged in horizontal layers named combs, each cell being vertical and closed at the top. An egg is then laid in each cell. After five to eight days, the egg hatches, and over the next two weeks, the larva undergoes five moults. During this time, the queen feeds it a protein-rich diet of insects. Then, the larva spins a silk cap over the cell's opening and, during the next two weeks, transforms into an adult, a process called metamorphosis. The adult then eats its way through the silk cap. This first generation of workers, invariably females, will now gradually undertake all the tasks formerly carried out by the queen (foraging, nest building, taking care of the brood, etc.) with one exception: egg-laying, which remains exclusive to the queen.

As the colony size grows, new combs are added, and an envelope is built around the cell layers until the nest is entirely covered with the exception of an entry hole. At the peak of its population, the colony can reach a size of 700 workers, which occurs in late summer.

At this time, the queen starts producing the first reproductive individuals. Fertilized eggs develop into females (called "gynes" by entomologists), and unfertilized ones develop into males (sometimes called "drones"). Adult males do not participate in nest maintenance, foraging, or caretaking of the larvae. In early to mid autumn, they leave the nest and mate during "nuptial flights". Males die shortly after mating. The workers and queens survive at most until mid to late autumn; only the fertilized queens survive over winter.

relationships with humans:

Attraction to lights and food: European hornets are attracted to lights at night, but are not attracted to human foods and food wastes. However, they can totally destroy fruits, such as apples, while the fruit is still on the tree. This is quite unlike the bald-faced hornet or other social wasps."

Samontenegro (talk) 05:09, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

I added a few new facts to your description and distribution sections. I added in some links to your page as well as edited writing by making some punctuation and grammatical changes. I also took out unnecessary or informal words and changed wording of some sentences. Katieortman 23:52, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Parasite
I think that the format that you wrote this part in where you described the observations described in a study is not the best way to express this concept. I think that you need to write it in a way that does refer to Davis (The author I'm assuming?). It's better to say "This was observed…" or "The wasps did this…" it's less awkward in this encyclopedic format. I like that you described the observations though. Atkarp (talk) 22:13, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

Suggestions
This article may need a bit more information in areas such as distribution, and colony life. What roles are there? What do the workers and queen do? I noticed V. mandarina mentioned, and I wonder if it is suppose to be V. mandarinia? If so, in that case it can be linked. I linked two species mentioned in this article. Also under Parasites, I do not believe you should start with "As mentioned earlier". It seems like something one would write while writing an essay, but since this is a Wiki article, it may flow better without it. Setoiris (talk) 03:24, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

In the “Description” section, I linked the word “ovipositor” to its associated Wikipedia page. In the “Nests” section, there is probably a better and more concise way to phrase the end of this sentence: “Social wasps in general prefer to build nests in the dark, so envelopes are commonly found surrounding the nests to make them dark if the colony could not locate a dark crevice to build in.” I made some edits in sentence structure in the part on “Constructing.” In the “Chemical composition” section, the elements should be written out fully, rather than given by their chemical symbols. It would also be good to link the elements to their respective Wikipedia pages. The full names and possibly the position titles of Saussure and Davis should be mentioned in “Distribution.” In the “Worker Policing part,” I linked “pheromone” to its Wikipedia page. I also made some grammatical edits. Foster’s full name should be listed and perhaps his title too. The “Reproductive succession” and “Worker Policing” sections seem to have some overlapping material, but this may be alright. The section on “Alarm Behavior” seems like it may become too technical or go into a little bit too much detail, given the Wikipedia standard. For example the following sentences mention of 2-methyl-3-butene-2-ol, pentenols, and pentanols may be too technical: “Experiments done by Veith determined that 2-methyl-3-butene-2-ol is the main component which causes V. crabro to express this alarmed and defensive behavior. Other pentenols and pentanols are also contained within these venomous sacs, but their primary purpose is to not to warn fellow hornets that there is danger nearby because these chemicals did not induce any alarmed behavior.” Instead of lisitng “2-methyl-3-butene-2-ol” it would be better to give the common name. Again, mention who Veith is. In the section on “Endangered species and legal protection,” the Euros symbol should be included and the date should most likely be given in standard American form.

Alison Gozlan (talk) 04:56, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

Peer Edit
This is a great article overall, but there are a few things I would consider to get your article to “Good Article” status. First, I would consider changing the title of you article to the genus and species rather than its common name. I think this is a more formal/professional way to title the article. In addition, I got rid of dead links including, Vespa dybowski. Also, in order to make the article flow better, I would suggest that you reword a few passages : “The eyes of Vespa crabro are deeply indented and shaped like a "C". The wings are reddish-orange, while the petiolate abdomen is striped with brown and yellow. The European hornet is larger than the common wasp, but smaller than the Asian hornet, with which it is sometimes confused” and “The species within the Hymenopteran order commonly sting or bite others they interact with. The European Hornet is no different, but only one documented case has led to hospitalization.” In the first passage, I would suggest varying your sentence structure a little more to make the information more engaging. In the second passage, I would try to rearrange the sentences so that the first sentence does not end with a preposition. In your parasite section you have one stand alone sentence addressing a specific parasitic relationship: “In addition, V. crabro have been observed attacking Polistes nimpha nest and parasitizing their nests.” I would advise you to add a little more information here if there is any available. Finally, In your last section, “Geographic color forms”, I wasn’t exactly sure what it was. I think that it would be beneficial to explain what geographic color forms are before stating the list. Overall, this was a great article! Nice job! Kaykup (talk) 00:24, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

Nominating
I am thinking to nominate this article for good article status. What do you guys think? Gug01 (talk) 23:59, 18 January 2015 (UTC) Gug 01

Only if this nonsense about a "single reported case of hospitalization in the world after hornet's sting" stays removed! 84.54.191.201 (talk) 20:38, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
 * It need some more info specific to this species, such as the fact that it is also nocturnal, unlike most social wasps. 109.56.119.115 (talk) 23:20, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

Interspecies Aggression
A category to add would be aggression; more specifically, interspecies aggression. This is because the entry mentions that some workers will discriminate against workers who wish to reproduce, implying that there is some conflict. I found this very interesting and wish it was discussed in further detail. Shelly May (talk) 02:08, 10 September 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.252.25.64 (talk)

Peer Suggestion
I thought this article was well written and used language that non-science people would understand, which was great. However, I would have liked to see a section on altruism and relatedness recognition in order to better understand worker policing. Also some experiments were referenced in the article but not fully explained, so it would be nice if there was a link leading to another page that explains these experiments.

Dead, off-color preserved specimens not a good choice for first image in article
The first image in the current article gives a misleading impression about what the European hornet looks like. They look mainly brown, and are in unnatural postures. There are much better pictures later in the article. I suggest that the first image is either replaced by one of these, or by a new picture that shows a live worker, drone and queen. Amaurea (talk) 18:49, 4 October 2022 (UTC)