Talk:European wildcat

Weights and Sizes of various Subspecies are Needed for this Article
Weights and Sizes of various Subspecies are Needed for thie Article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.252.243.137 (talk) 05:02, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Domesticated?
Can this cat be domesticated? I think there needs to be some mention of what it's like to have one of these as pets (if that's at all possible) including pros/cons and why or why not to own them, since they are in fact one of the originators of the Domestic House Cat.--68.111.174.11 (talk) 07:57, 11 January 2009 (UTC)


 * They are in fact not one of the originators of the housecat; the housecat is descended from the distinct African Wildcat. European Wildcats can't be domesticated, and attempting to do so is a really, really bad idea. (African Wildcats can't really be domesticated either; the domestic cat has changed quite a bit from its ancestors) 92.2.81.61 (talk) 19:36, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
 * They tame right down, let people pet them, they purr and even cuddle up and go to sleep on people who keep them. Whether they would 'stay' if one tried to keep them around the yard is another matter - while the food might be easy the hunting instinct might cause them to head back into the wild. Nevertheless -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVid6KoliaM

Merge with 'Wildcat' page?
Are there any views on merging this article with the general Wildcat article? The Wildcat article links to other small, stub-like items. I wonder if they should all be merged? SkyeWaye (talk) 12:56, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

"Wildcat normally would not be mistaken for the Domestic Cat"?
The article claims that normally you wouldn't confuse the two due to the wildcat's thick fur and bulk, but the fact is that some domestic cat breeds match (or even exceed) the wildcat in both of those traits. And their markings certainly would do nothing to distinguish them from domestic cats; the typical European wildcat markings are the same as the most type of domestic cat common markings- tabby. 75.76.213.106 (talk) 04:02, 1 June 2010 (UTC)


 * -totally agree IceDragon64 (talk) 00:38, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Highland Wildcat
I came to this article in the hope of finding out more about the Highland Wildcat and the myths surrounding it. It would be good if there was some sort of a mention. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.13.83.68 (talk) 23:54, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Fauna of Scotland states that "The Wild Cat is at risk due to the inadequacy of protective legislation and is now considered at serious risk of extinction"- although that does not apply elsewhere. Ben  Mac  Dui  08:28, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

"See also" has no relevance
Why exactly does a page about a wildcat species need a link to a page about oil prospectors? PotatoSamurai (talk) 14:36, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Size?
If the weight is around the same as that of a domestic cat, then in what way is it "bigger"?

IceDragon64 (talk) 00:40, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Actually a typical domestic cat weighs ~7 pounds, to 10 pounds at max for most breeds. European wildcats can weigh up to 30 pounds. It would be better to just remove the "although its weight is similar to the average house cat" and add "measurably heavier than most domestic cats" or something.

76.10.167.201 (talk) 20:03, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

File:Felis silvestris silvestris.jpg to appear as POTD
Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Felis silvestris silvestris.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on December 2, 2013. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2013-12-02. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. Thanks! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:50, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

Conservation status
Is there any official conservation status for Felis silvestris silvestris? The IUCN recognizes Felis silvestris as "Least Concern", and Felis silvestris bieti as "Vulnerable", but is there specific data for European wildcats? I found this that lists Felis silvestris grampia as "Vulnerable", but it may be outdated or unverifiable info, as F.s. grampia is an obselete synonym. There could be as little as 35 wildcats left in Scotland, and what are the estimates for the mainland population?

Schvass (talk) 17:38, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Subspecies and populations thereof are assessed at country level, not by IUCN. -- BhagyaMani (talk) 18:59, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

IUCN Red List does mention that the current statistics on the population in Scotland is in the "Critically Endangered" category.

Schvass (talk) 18:25, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

Hybridisation in capitive populations
New paper suggesting it is pretty common as in they found a total of 2 individuals without hybridisation from domestic cats:

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0106083

©Geni (talk) 16:52, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

This has been discussed extensively about the conservation of wildcats in Scotland. Their website lists the various traits of hybridization from domestic cats. It's worth noting that there are no "pure" Scottish wildcats in captivity, as all show varying degrees of hybridization. I think its worth adding a few details to the article about identifying traits of hybridized wildcats and their differences from the pure wildcats.

Schvass (talk) 15:31, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

File:Felis silvestris silvestris Luc Viatour.jpg to appear as POTD
Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Felis silvestris silvestris Luc Viatour.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on February 25, 2015. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2015-02-25. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. Thanks! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:29, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Conservation Projects in Scotland
The current section is very detailed on some things but omits a lot including detail on the current Scottish Wildcat Action project, which is the main government-sponsored project albeit controversial. Even the controversy and debate between Scottish Wildcat Action and Scottish Wildcat Association isn't fully represented currently. I updated it in this edit but User:Materialscientist reverted due to too much detail on a single country. With hindsight I agree, and it actually has too much detail even without my edit. I considered making Scottish Wildcat Conservation, but there are not analogous pages for other animals or countries so I don't think that is a good idea. Scottish Wildcat Association has its own page, so my proposal now is to update that with the latest information on their Wildcat Haven project, and then to make a page on the notable Scottish Wildcat Action including the details on their action plan project. Then it will be possible to edit the section in this article down to key details only. Any thoughts? TwoSheds88 (talk) 22:52, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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2004 paper on Wildcat evolution
Craniological differentiation between European wildcats (Felis silvestris silvestris), African wildcats (F. s. lybica) and Asian wildcats (F. s. ornata): implications for their evolution and conservation NOBUYUKI YAMAGUCHI CARLOS A. DRISCOLL  ANDREW C. KITCHENER  JENNIFER M. WARD DAVID W. MACDONALD Biological Journal of the Linnean Society, Volume 83, Issue 1, 1 September 2004, Pages 47–63, https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1095-8312.2004.00372.x [open access, hooray!]

Surprised to not see this one already cited here. I added a bit from it re the Scottish population. YAMAGUCHI et al. ends with this provocative statement:
 * IMPLICATIONS FOR CONSERVATION
 * ...bringing domesticated steppe wildcats into Europe and Britain, and allowing them to range freely, has created an interface between the two strands of wildcat evolution for the first time in their evolutionary history. Given its apparently significant impact on the skull morphology of the forest wildcat, minimizing introgressive hybridization between forest wildcats and domestic cats should be regarded as a high conservation priority.

This should go into the article. Maybe someone who's a regular here can do it? I came here to learn about domestics like Bacio: https://www.flickr.com/photos/9113739@N03/46973933622/, a Siberian cat -- who is one of these "introgressive hybrids", I think, -- Pete Tillman (talk) 02:54, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

Ghjattu-volpe
This seems to belong here, too. --Palnatoke (talk) 06:40, 14 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Probably just a feral cat. Some English language mentions here and here. There is nothing new (e.g. here).  Jts1882 &#124; talk 06:50, 14 June 2019 (UTC)


 * It does not belong here! Read this page's Taxonomy section. As already noted in the above newspaper article, the Corsican wildcat is a descendant of the African wildcat, introduced to Corsica 2,000+ years ago. See also Feral_cat. -- BhagyaMani (talk) 07:01, 14 June 2019 (UTC)

Orphaned references in European wildcat
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of European wildcat's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "Werdelin2010": From African wildcat:  From Black-footed cat:  From Clouded leopard:  From List of felids:  

Reference named "Johnson2006": From Jungle cat:  From African wildcat:  <li>From Caracal: </li> <li>From Tiger: </li> <li>From Leopardus: </li> <li>From Clouded leopard: </li> <li>From Jaguar: </li> <li>From Canada lynx: </li> <li>From Panthera: </li> <li>From Black-footed cat: </li> <li>From Ocelot: </li> <li>From Pallas's cat: </li> <li>From Cougar: </li> <li>From Felis attica: </li> </ul>

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 09:24, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

Vernacular name of Felis silvestris silvestris
Felis silvestris is European wildcat. Felis silvestris caucasica is Caucasian wildcat. Felis silvestris silvestris is... ? -- NGC 54  ( talk ｜  contribs ) 18:20, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

to "F. s. silvestris in Sicily, continental Europe, and the Scottish wildcat population in Scotland" Or something similar...- UtherSRG (talk) 19:19, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Well, according to the article at Scottish wildcat, which reads "The Scottish wildcat (Felis silvestris silvestris) is a..." but doesn't accept linking from this article to that at Felis silvestris silvestris. *shrugs* UtherSRG (talk) 15:51, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
 * If you had read the section *Taxonomy* carefully, you would know by now that grampia is not considered a distinct subspecies, but has been subordinated to silvestris in continental Europe, Scotland and Sicily. – BhagyaMani (talk) 16:15, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I think you are the one reading things backwards. grampia is a synonym, and that isn't being debated. F. s. silvestris is named what in the vernacular? Our Scottish wildcat article says F. s. silvestris is commonly called the Scottish wildcat. So I supported the linking of F. s. silvestris in this article to point to Scottish wildcat. You say this can't be done because grampia is a synonym, but we aren't doing any linking on grampia. - UtherSRG (talk) 18:06, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
 * F. s. silvestris doesn't have a vernacular name, see the cited source. – BhagyaMani (talk) 18:48, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Then we need some serious updates to Scottish wildcat. I propose moving that article to Felis silvestris silvestris and updating it to not use the term "Scottish wildcat" except as as a passing mention to a subpopulation - UtherSRG (talk) 18:55, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
 * A compromise proposal: Change "F. s. silvestris in continental Europe, Scotland and Sicily"
 * The present explanation has been good for some 4+ years; since taxonomy and source didn't change, I don't see any need to change this sentence. – BhagyaMani (talk) 04:51, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

Distribution map outdated
I see the currently displayed distribution map is sourced as work by @BhagyaMani based on the 2015 Red List Assessment. It needs updating. A new assessment was published in 2022 (Gerngross et al.), which was the first one treating the European wildcat as a separate species from the Afro-Asiatic wildcat (Felis lybica). As a consequence, there is not only newer data available, but the currently displayed distribution map contains actually wrong information, i.e. showing distribution on Corsica and Sardinia, which has now been attributed to F. lybica. Seeing the source for the current map, I assume the new one cannot simply be copy-pasted from IUCN? 82.197.183.107 (talk) 11:05, 16 February 2023 (UTC)


 * I usually put requests in to the map workshop, but perhaps can enlighten us. I know we can copy from IUCN based upon the CC BY-SA attribution, I just don't know the process. Screen cap, upload, add relevant IUCN citation? - UtherSRG (talk) 12:55, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Sorry for late reply, I was travelling + will look into this asap. BhagyaMani (talk) 18:18, 5 March 2023 (UTC)