Talk:Evgeni Plushenko

Regarding the platinum medal
Ari Zakarian, Evgeni's agent has already talked about Plushenko not knowing about that medal, so I will ask that the part about him being "dissatisfied" to be removed from the wikipage http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=oly&id=4939878 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Axva (talk • contribs) 20:20, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

[17 February 2006]
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Evgeny_Plushenko&diff=prev&oldid=39923722 !!! before the final even had started ! /Grön 11:29, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Plushenko's jumps
Previous versions of this article have asserted that Plushenko has landed quadruple salchows in competition, and that he was the first skater to land quadruple lutzes and loops in practice.

As far as I have been able to determine, Plushenko never landed a quadruple salchow in any national or international competition. He usually just does quad toe loops. The only reference I can find to him even attempting a quad salchow was at a minor competition in Samara in 2004.

While I personally witnessed Plushenko doing a clean quad lutz in practice at the 2003 World Championships, Michael Weiss was landing this jump in practice as far back as early 1997, and Elvis Stojko was also said to have been landing them around that time. It seems very unlikely to me that Plushenko could have been landing them before that since he was all of 14 years old at the time. In any case, we need specific evidence to back up this claim.

As far as quad loops go, Roman Serov was attempting them in competition in 2000 and 2001, so presumably he had already been landing them in practice by that point. Again, we need specific dates and evidence to give Plushenko priority. Dr.frog 21:36, 3 March 2006 (UTC).

It is the truth, instead of false data. These are data from the program about it of the channel Sports-Russia - this channel state, translation was before the Turin games. Also Plushenko spoke about it in interview - to the program of "Message" of state the channel of Russia after the championships of the Europe, before the world championships in Moscow 2005. He has told, that does this jump on trainings, it carefully training it and will try to land its and other new complex elements in the world championship in Moscow and by that will surprise its all other competitors and his fans. Other proofs at me are not present, as I cannot give media files with these interview. For protection I can tell, that if it in Samara he has landed in competition, logically simply to take and make it without any training and preparation could not do it. In figure skating all elements all over again are fulfilled in trainings and only then them try to do at competitions.--88.152.21.161 14:41, 22 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Since we have a reliable report that Plushenko has landed a quad salchow in competition, we can take it as a given that he has also landed them in practice. There is no need to keep inserting ungrammatical statements that he has done so.  It may be factually true, but it does not improve the article, so leave it alone, OK?  Dr.frog 16:47, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Hi Dr.frog! Write in article about other his quadruple jumps in practice - does count? And about such difficult combinations is not? It is nonsense! And where in rules of wikipedia written, what it is impossible to write such information here? After all - it is the truth and the fact, not a fiction. I think such information is useful to readers. About proofs, you trust to your eyes? If yes, look itself video Evgeni Plushenko 3 Axel 4 Toeloop November 2009 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lr98t-0Ze80. About 4+4 see http://www.eurosport.ru/figure-skating/story_sto2070287.shtml (Стратегическая задача – добиться стабильного исполнения двух четверных - Strategic task-to achieve stable execution of two quads jumps) and http://winter.sport-express.ru/figureskating/reviews/3519/ (На тренировках в Санкт-Петербурге Плющенко пробовал выполнить два четверных прыжка в каскаде - On trainings in St.-Petersburg Plushenko tried to execute two quadruple jumps in combination)and http://sport.rambler.ru/news/figureskating/576020292.html (Спортсмен работает над комбинациями прыжков "4+4" и "3+4" - athlete works for the combinations of " 4+4" and " 3+4") and video interview http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s05PumrMCc8&NR=1. Now, I hope proofs enough! I hope for understanding.--79.177.194.25 (talk) 17:30, 24 January 2010 (UTC)


 * YouTube videos are not considered a reliable source on Wikipedia, nor is the evidence of my own eyes (that's a primary source, not a reliable source). Also, things that you have to qualify with "maybe" are not encyclopedic.  Sorry.  Plushenko's verifiable achievements are impressive enough; you don't have to puff up his reputation by inserting claims that are either unverified or unverifiable by reliable sources.  Dr.frog (talk) 20:18, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I am sorry, but video is the clear proof and wiki it recognises. In many articles in wiki are references to video files. I am don't have to puff up his reputation by inserting claims!!! It is fact!!! Eurosport and sport-express.ru - enough authoritative sources! Wiki demands acknowledgement of the facts and I have given them. Also it isn't necessary to declare that they are either unverified or unverifiable by reliable sources. All of them are accessible on the Internet and even very verified, verifiable and checked. If you don't wish to see this information in article - is does not mean that other readers against it too. I did not break rules of wiki, also have given not one reference. So the reason for revert me is not present. Simply there are divergences of opinions, but it not an occasion for reverts too!--79.183.192.92 (talk) 22:18, 24 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Blades on Ice magazine's report on the 2001 Cup of Russia competition (January/February 2002 issue, p34) says that Plushenko fell on the quad lutz attempt at that competition. No way does that "count" as a successfully landed jump.  The article does confirm he was practicing the jump at that time, but so were other skaters.  As previously noted, Michael Weiss was already attempting the jump in competition as early as 1997.  Dr.frog (talk) 15:06, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Spelling of Plushenko's name
WP:RUS says "When something has a conventional name in English, use that name instead of transliterating." I have to believe that Plushenko's "conventional name in English" is Evgeni rather than Yevgeniy:


 * It is the spelling he uses on his official website.
 * It is the spelling he uses when competing internationally.

Dr.frog 22:33, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Hi, there! This is not really what's meant by "conventional name".  The passage you quoted applies for other cases: one should use "Alexander" instead of "Aleksandr", for example.
 * Overall, it is generally preferred to use a policy-compliant name, with the exception of cases that are long-established in English (with all due respect to Plushenko, he is hardly on the same fame-scale as Gorbachev or Khrushchev). As for the second point, Russian names are often transliterated using the French system (because the majority of international sports organizations primarily utilize French), and the spelling, of course, leaks to the English-language media.  The first point of yours (official website) is harder to ignore&mdash;if the guy himself wants to be known under this screwed-up spelling, that's his right (I admit that I neglected to check his official website before making corrections); even then proper transliteration should be given in the lede at the very least.
 * Anyway, if the subject of Russian names/transliteration interests you to the point that you really care what spelling should be used, please consider joining discussion at WP:CYR&mdash;a proposal to revise and expand current WP:RUS policy. I do agree that Plushenko's name falls into the vast grey area between what's conventional, what's convenient, what's prescribed by Wikipedia's policies, and what's consistent with other practices.  Meanwhile feel free to change the spelling to the official website version; the article should probably be moved, too.&mdash;Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) • (yo?); 23:07, 22 June 2006 (UTC)


 * FWIW, the official language of the International Skating Union is English, not French. You'll note that Plushenko's bio page there (linked above) is in English, as is the rest of the ISU web site .  Dr.frog 02:13, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, I know that. I was simply making a point that there are quite a few sports organizations out there that use French, not English.  My statement was not in regards to this particular case.  Thanks anyway.  Also, I moved the article to the corrected spelling.  Feel free to let me know if there is anything else I can help with.&mdash;Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) • (yo?); 12:05, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Reverts?
What's going on with the reverts? If you haven't before, could you please discuss this? Also, please leave edit summaries in English as most of us here cannot read Cyrillic. Thanks. --Fang Aili talk 14:25, 27 June 2006 (UTC)


 * It's a long-term vandal. See User:Roitr/sockpuppeter.  Dr.frog 17:11, 27 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Understood. --Fang Aili talk 17:15, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I have semi-protected the article. The revert war was getting out of hand.&mdash;Ëzhiki (Igel Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 17:42, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

ISU bio
Looks like there is some info from Plushenko's ISU bio which is not in the article. I consider this source pretty reliable. I do not consider the other links, [mms://video.rfn.ru/rtr-sport/7118.asf] (cited by the Roitr sock in edit summaries) reliable. Even if some information could be added, that does not justify other changes (such as deleting the persondata), which Roitr has done repeatedly. I have blocked the Roitr socks and protected the article for the time being. --Fang Aili talk 18:42, 3 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Please write me what changes of the person data have been erased by Roitr. I do not see such deleting. Also explain why you are not consent with a video file from the Russian state channel of TV [mms: // video.rfn.ru/rtr-sport/7118.asf] - in this reporting comments to the achievements were given by him. In it and on a site http://www.kingonice.com/news04-05-part2.htm it is told n 2004 also landed a quadruple salchow in competition in Samara, Russia. On ISU site it is written - Plushenko is one of few figure skaters to have landed quadruple loops and quadruple lutzes in practice. Also the absolute truth that he is one of the few male skaters to perform the Biellmann spin. Also you erase the information that music to programs which is skating by Plushenko has been especially arranged for him by violinist Edvin Marton and that he underwent groin surgery in Munich, Germany in spring 2005 - all this information also is absolutely exact. Because of all it I do not understand why you delete this information. I consider it should be in this clause necessarily! Consequently I ask you return to previous variant of this clause please. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.153.169.182 (talk • contribs)


 * I find it hard to believe that you are unable to look at simple diffs in the history to see your own actions. Frankly I am tired of dealing with you and do not wish to discuss this further. You are a sock and I don't have to play games with you. --Fang Aili talk 20:11, 3 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I am capable to see at simple difference in the history. All this information is written on official site ISU and it only expands the previous version. I do not ask to play with me games. Even that I a sock - in this dispute it is not important and not meaningful here. All my data are truthful and absolutely exact. That you do not accept them - me simply surprises. You are the administrator of Wikipedia and you should struggle for exact both full data and the facts. Personally I here struggle for the truth and the full information, instead of I play with you games. Your have all right to not talk to me, but I shall further continue to insist, that my additions should be returned in this clause. I not against updatings my changes, but I categorically against their entirely removal from this clause. I hope for understanding.--88.153.169.182 20:43, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

First Picture
Is it just me or is that first picture a little too blurry?

Notorious controversy!
For rolling his eyes during the United States national anthem. 208.120.25.41 (talk) 21:21, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

It is notable that he is a sore loser. But in WP, we try to be nice and not mention too much. But some mention was in RS that he was upset and jumped over the gold platform. That we should mention. The fact that he awarded himself the platinum medal, I'm unsure of, because it is negative and we like to be positive in WP. JB50000 (talk) 04:53, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Dead External Link
External link www.evgeniplushenko.net comes back as 'page not found'. This might be a dead link that needs removed. Romaq 14:04, 25 February 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Romaq (talk • contribs)

We will win! You are bustards and will be punished by the God for all injustice you do! Die! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.176.162.114 (talk) 21:39, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Protest Letter
In this recently added section, the citation does not appear to say how many fans signed the open letter. I suggest a better citation or an English source should be found. "After the competition, more than 6,000 sports fans from all over the world sent an open letter to the International Olympic Committee, International Skating Union, Member Federations of Russia, Japan, France, Germany, Italy, China and other countries to protest the results and judging system, which they believe are unfair.[citation needed][21]" --Panda609 (talk) 21:41, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
 * The original reference for this was to a post on a message board. Regardless of what language it's in, that's not a reliable source for a BLP article -- especially when the material is as contentious as this.  I've removed the claim from the article unless/until a better source can be found.  Dr.frog (talk) 23:56, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Citations needed for Programs section
The Programs section lacks a lot of citations. I've added the Refimprove section banner. Kirin13 (talk) 17:35, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
 * 1995-2000 - these five seasons are completely uncited
 * 2000-2002 - these two seasons are cited from icecalc.de who seem to have a questionable copy (copyright violation?) of ISU page; in addition:
 * exhibition programs uncited
 * 2000-01 free program says "Tango from Hasta que te Conoci by Raúl di Blasio" but source cited says "Tango from The Addams Family (soundtrack) by Mark Shaiman"
 * 2001-02 short program, no citations for the specific songs
 * 2001-02 2nd free program, list does not match list in citation
 * 2002-2006 - these four seasons are only cited by dead links, so might as well be completely uncited
 * 2006-2014 - all the exhibition programs are uncited

Citations needed for Achievements section
The Achievements section is poorly cited.

Paragraph/sentence numbering below is of :
 * P2 - Completely uncited.
 * P3 - First sentence has Youtube video as citation, which may show him do the jumps, but it does not provide evidence that he was first. Rest of sentences are uncited.
 * P4 - Completely uncited.
 * P5 - Completely uncited.
 * P6 - First two sentence (6.0 system) are uncited. Third sentence (Code of Points) is fine.

I've added the Refimprove section banner. Since this a biography of a living person, any unsourced or poorly sourced information is liable to being immediately removed ... Kirin13 (talk) 20:44, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

Olympic medals record
There has been some disagreement over how to word the 'most Olympic medals' statement. Paraphrasing the two opinions from the multiple edits:
 * Plushenko's four Olympic medals tied Sweden's Gillis Grafström's record for most Olympic medals in figure skating.
 * Plushenko is the only skater in the [modern history / modern history of the sport / post-war period] to win four Olympic medals in figure skating. (Gillis Grafström won four Olympic medals in the early years of the sport, 1920–1932, when the athletic requirements of the sport were far lower.)

I prefer the first version. Judging from 's, s/he concurs with me.

In the second statement, I don't like any of the three time phrases used:
 * Modern history is basically anytime after Middle Ages, so Grafström is modern.
 * Modern history of the sport starts in about the 1800's, so Grafström is modern.
 * Post-war period is a very ambiguous term. It doesn't say which war. The assumption of WWII is culturally bound. Also, post-war period is generally a bound set of time after the war. Based on the Wikipedia article, the latest it's considered post-WWII period is through the 1980's, which would mean neither Grafström nor Plushenko got any medals in the post-WWII period.

More importantly, I don't think it matters for the record that it was a 'different era'.
 * As I previously said in an edit summary, "old records don't get thrown away because 'the sport was easier back then' (all sports were easier 20/30/etc. years ago, but the records set, were set)." Take Olympic champion swimmers from 20 years ago, put them into a time machine and send them to the 2012 Olympics. I question if any of them would make it to the finals. However, tt doesn't mean that the medals they won back then should be ignored.
 * Furthermore, figure skating has basically changed every decade. In the 6.0 era it was more important to have a full package vs. today where skaters need to rack up points. Until the 1990, compulsory figures were a factor of the scores. The short program did not exist before 1964. Also, for many years the scores were heavily weighted toward the compulsory figures instead of "figure skating" as we know it today. Even in the last decade, under the ISU Judging System, point values have changed (most notable after the quadruple jump controversy). So to separate everything into 'different eras', there might as well only be seasonal records. Unless the sport (not Wikipedia) assigns different eras, it should be treated as a whole.
 * As stated in the edit summary, "a medal is a medal. they compete against the others at a particular game and no-one else." To expand on that, each competition is it's own. Results don't get thrown away when people think "the best skater was injured, otherwise X wouldn't have won," "this year, none of the skaters were that great, so it doesn't really count," "the high score shouldn't count as a world record because judges were more lenient at this competition," or "his fourth medal was a team medal, so he only got three 'real' Olympic medals." Results are the results.
 * In general, records based on number of medals, number of times, youngest, oldest, etc. are counted regardless of how the sport changes. In my opinion, the only time old records can be 'ignored' is when they are impossible to beat under current rules. For example, Maxi Herber's age record. Under modern rules she would have been too young to skate at the Olympics, so unless age requirements get decreased, her record will stand for all-time. On the other hand, since Plushenko tied Grafström's record, it wasn't impossible.

Also, the use of 'only', makes it seem like Grafström record is irrelevant.

In general, I don't see the point to the separation. Why is it so bad to tie a record? Why does it need to be phrased in a way to discount everyone else's records? Further thoughts welcome, Kirin13 (talk) 06:42, 19 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Good analysis User:Kirin13... covers virtually everything I was going to point out and more.
 * The changes seem to be just an effort to puff up Plushenko's (or denigrate Grafström's) Olympic accomplishments by cherry picking the issue of evolution of technical difficulty. Why stop there? We could also point out that Plushenko only won three individual medals to Grafström's four, or that Plushenko only won two gold medals to Grafström's three, or that Plushenko only won one individual gold medal to Grafström's three, or that Plushenko had the advantage of skating on temperature-controlled indoor ice while Grafström skated his first three Olympics on outdoor rinks, or that figure skates have vastly improved in the 80 plus years since Grafström competed.
 * Could Plushenko have been doing quads in combination on rutted outdoor 1920's ice with the skates that were in use then? It doesn't seem likely, but it doesn't matter. They were both dominant skaters of their eras, and the emphasis on the change in technical difficulty is unwarranted. Meters (talk) 18:01, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

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 * The added link is replaced with the one archived after the 2010 Vancouver Olympics. There is a need to find a more recent one compiled after the 2014 Sochi Olympics. ISU.org changed their website recently, so it will not be easy to find such info. Seameetsmountain (talk) 13:41, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

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Personal life, paragraph 2, pronunciation of щ in the lastname
The paragraph says:

<>

There's no such Russian pronunciation, new or any, that would replace щ (shch) in this lastname with ш (sh). No idea where did it even come from. The references provided are simply to the sample article and ISU page where the lastname is written as Plushenko, with no any discussion of the pronunciation at all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.59.49.89 (talk) 11:40, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

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Performances with son
Someone should add something about his exhibition performances with his son, Alexandr — Preceding unsigned comment added by Skysong263 (talk • contribs) 20:37, 4 July 2018 (UTC)