Talk:First Minister and deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland

(Non-)capitalisation of 'deputy'
Does the Assembly ruling that 'deputy' not be capitalised have precedence over the rules of the written language? I've noticed several instances of 'deputy' remaining in lower case at the beginning of bulleted lists (e.g. in the infobox on the Northern Ireland article). Surely this rule is only meant to be for comparative purposes, i.e. when referring to both the First Minister and the deputy? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Magicandmedicine (talk • contribs) 18:44, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * It should be capitalised at the start of a sentence, per normal English grammar. — Jon C.  ॐ  08:38, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
 * No it shouldn't, read the article. Mo ainm  ~Talk  09:04, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
 * OK, ignore me, the rules of the language evidently don't apply in this instance because the authority of the Northern Irish Assembly over-rules them. Give me strength. Of course it's capitalised at the start of a sentence. EVERYTHING is. — Jon C.  ॐ  09:14, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Depends really if we are dealing with a title or comparative purposes. Heres two official sources and both are different: Office of the First Minister and Deputy First Minister and Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister. Mabuska (talk) 13:14, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks Jon C., my question was ironic/rhetorical.::::: — Preceding unsigned comment added by Magicandmedicine (talk • contribs) 22:53, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Possible article change
Would it be alright to move to First Minister and deputy First Minister (Northern Ireland)? GoodDay (talk) 20:07, 14 March 2011 (UTC)


 * No. 2 lines of K  303  11:00, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Images
Anyone have any objections to the revamping of the article primarily to deal with the atrocity that is this section? The repeated images (obviously Trimble is the worst example, due to it being there a pointless 3 times) do nothing, and I'm sure we could incorporate most of the images elsewhere in the article and return the table to a more sensible format? 2 lines of K 303  11:00, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Diarchy
I've replaced the statement about the positions being a diarchy with the more accurate and verifiable

The two positions share resposiblities within government.

Firstly, a diarchy refers to joint heads of state and Northern Ireland is not a state and the Queen's representative would be its head if it were. A source would be needed to show that this term has been applied to the NI excutive. Secondly, the sources that I have seen state the posts have equal responsiblities which does not imply equal power. As NI is a parlimentary system the power of the First Minister is derived from the support of MLAs. Although this is somewhat mitigted by the arrangments under which the govenment operates an assertion that they have equalised their power would need a reliable source to back it up. Eckerslike (talk) 19:55, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Resignation of FM & dFM on 11/01/2016
Should the table for dFM - Martin McGuinness not be split as at 11/01/2016 as the position of dFM also became vacant with Pater Robinson's resignation? --Gavin Lisburn (talk) 01:50, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

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External links modified
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Photo of the new FM and dFM
There is a photo of Arlene Foster's and Michelle O'Neill's first meeting as FM and dFM, which can be accessed below. I'm not an expert on copyright policy, so I wouldn't know if it's appropriate to use this image or if Boyes (who holds the copyright) would have to be contacted to use this image. Many thanks. Caden Ó Cearrúláin (talk) 15:01, 12 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Never mind, that's been sorted now. Caden Ó Cearrúláin (talk) 20:39, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 09:22, 25 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Arlene Foster DUP MLA.jpg

Difference between 2002-2007 and 2017-2020
The article seems to treat the two periods of suspension as different. On the timeline 2002-2007 is labelled "Direct Rule" and 2017-2020 is labelled "Office Vacant". The Secretaries of State for Northern Ireland are listed as "Direct Rule First Ministers" and shown in the timeline for the first period, but not for the second. Is there a reason for the different treatment? Mr Weeble Talk Brit tv 21:41, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

so the NI Secretary was in effect the First Minister.
 * Direct rule is where the British Government suspends, via primary legislation, the NI Assembly's power to pass Acts, and instead makes Orders in Council that have the same power as an NI Act. This was done in 1972 through the Northern Ireland (Temporary Provisions) Act 1972 and done again in 2000 through the Northern Ireland Act 2000. In the period between 2000-2007, during the periods of Assembly rule, this Act was suspended, and then revived when direct rule was reinstituted. This continued until it was repealed in 2007 by the Northern Ireland (St Andrews Agreement) Act 2006. That was the last time there was direct rule.
 * The 2000 Act said in the Schedule section 4(1)(a): "any functions of the First Minister and the deputy First Minister may be discharged by the Secretary of State"
 * For the 2017-20 period, no Act was passed to suspend the Assembly and the Government couldn't make Orders in Council in place of NI Acts. Therefore, it wasn't direct rule. See this. --Inops (talk) 14:25, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

Both positions now officially vacant
With Foster's resignation taking effect at 13:00, O'Neill also had to step down from her position, leaving a seven-day interregnum. Culloty82 (talk) 12:17, 14 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Thanks for this! I've already dropped an apology here to the IP whose edits I reversed before. The reason was that they didn't use a reliable source. I hope that everything is okay now. FollowTheTortoise (talk) 12:34, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

Yet the Executive remains in place
This seems the most sensible place for a central discussion.

Despite an IP editor updating various ministerial articles claiming the Executive has been dissolved, this is not the case (to the best of my knowledge). Sky News for example say If the two largest parties cannot reach agreement on the issue in seven days, the Stormont executive will collapse, and While her successor, Mr Poots, can appoint other ministers to the executive, the first minister and deputy first ministers are elected jointly under mandatory coalition. So while the FM and dFM positions are currently vacant, the Executive remains in place. Or it does, in the absence of references that say otherwise, despite the IP's claims. FDW777 (talk) 14:46, 14 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Makes sense to me. I agree that it seems that the executive has not been dissolved. FollowTheTortoise (talk) 18:18, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

New Rules from 2006
''The new rules from 2006 also state that, if the largest party of the largest designation happens not to also be the largest party in the assembly overall, then the appointment procedure would be as follows:

a First Minister nominated by the largest party overall; a deputy First Minister nominated by the largest party of the largest designation.''

Following the 2022 Northern Ireland Assembly election, this contingency may come to pass, but I cannot actually find words to this effect in the legislation cited. Robin S. Taylor (talk) 20:06, 8 May 2022 (UTC)


 * See the Northern Ireland Act 1998, s 16C(6). You're right that this should be better referenced and I'll go ahead and fix this. FollowTheTortoise (talk) 18:27, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

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David Trimble
David Trimble has died recently Katherine Northey (talk) 18:55, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

Ulster-Scots infobox title
Isn't 'Northern Ireland' in Ulster Scots, 'Norlin Airlan(n)' not 'Northern Ireland'? As in the infobox, since it was added in 2022.  Dank Jae  23:41, 9 February 2024 (UTC)