Talk:Flag of Singapore/Archive 1

NPOV
I've excised this from the article:

''...is Singapore's most visible symbol of statehood, symbolising sovereignity, pride and honour. It reflects the ideals, beliefs and values, that Singaporeans stand by as a nation amidst their rich and diverse make-up. It forms a crucial element of their national identity. As such, the national flag is to be treated with dignity and honour.''

That bland list of patriotic assertions sounds like it's copied from a propaganda site. Jpatokal 12:03, 28 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Indeed, it's all copied from here. Jpatokal 12:04, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Symb flagpost.gif
Image:Symb flagpost.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 09:40, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Gallery of flags
The "Gallery of flags" section in this article seems out of place, as this article is about the national flag. There should be some explanation of what they are doing in this article. Cheers, Jacklee 02:26, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Edits to "Flag of Singapore"
Hi, thanks for proofreading and making some improvements to "Flag of Singapore". However, I am wondering whether the changes that you made to the first paragraph in the section "Flag of Singapore" should be reverted, because the description of the flag was actually taken directly from the Singapore Arms and Flag and National Anthem Rules. Also, the present wording, which plunges right into the meaning of the various elements of the flag, seems a little abrupt. Cheers, Jacklee 04:27, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Hi Jacklee, and thanks for your comments. To explain the reasoning behind my edits to that paragraph:  The first sentence was basically redundant with material in the introduction, so I thought deleting it was appropriate.  I then shortened up the next two sentences by replacing "The X colour" with "X", which I don't think affects meaning.  I agree that this left the section with a bit too abrupt a beginning; I've just edited a bit more to try to fix this, let me know what you think.


 * In general, while I think its great to reference the actual legal language that defines the flag, I don't think an encyclopedia needs to uncritically reproduce it verbatim or accept its style. For example, the legal language talks about an "upper left canton", which sounds quite awkward to a vexillologist's ear:  flags don't have an inherent "left" and "right" side, since they blow around in the wind and are viewed at a variety of angles, so "hoist" and "fly" are the preferred terms; and the "canton" is by definition the corner in the upper fly part of the flag -- I don't think the other corners can be considered "cantons".  Seems to me better to try to make all "Flag of X" articles conform to vexillological standards rather than to have each use the respective country's idiosyncratic terminology. --ScottMainwaring 05:35, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Not being a vexillologist, I shall defer to your superior knowledge regarding how the flag should be described. However, when I previously worked to get articles up to Good Article status, I was advised by (presumably) more experienced editors that the introductory paragraph is meant to summarize what is in the article, which suggests that what is in the introduction must appear elsewhere in the article. I've made some minor tweaks to the words that you introduced in the "Elements and symbolism section". In particular, I've removed the "(sic)" ("equality of man" is an old-fashioned but grammatical usage) and the "presumably" after "waxing" (yes, the crescent moon is waxing). For the benefit of other editors, I've copied our discussion into the "Flag of Singapore" talk page. We may want to continue this conversation there. Cheers, Jacklee 13:30, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Scott, since you have an interest in vexillology, I wonder if you have access to copies of Flag Bulletin and thus to Whitney Smith's 1966 article "A History of the Symbols of Singapore" which appeared in volume 5 no. 2. I don't have access to that journal, and am curious to see if there is anything there that might be worth adding to this article. Cheers, Jacklee 04:09, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Photographs of flag in use
This article could do with a few more photographs of the flag in use (displayed outside buildings, waved by National Day Parade audience members, etc.). If you have any that can be uploaded to the Wikimedia Commons, please do so and add them to this article. Thanks! &mdash; Cheers, Jack  Lee  –talk– 01:26, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * and could help. Both are under acceptable licenses. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 19:52, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Is another one. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 21:48, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Hi, Zscout370, thanks for finding the above photographs. As you can see, I also found the first one and have already inserted it into the article. The second one is interesting, but you can't really tell it's the Singapore flag on the flagpole. Thanks also for inserting the third photograph into the article. Since it had a Creative Commons licence, I transferred it to Wikimedia Commons and made some minor changes to its location in the article.

By the way, did you see my response to your question at "Wikipedia talk:SGpedians' notice board"? &mdash; Cheers, Jack Lee  –talk– 00:26, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I did about the construction sheet; I made some slight changes to the flag image we are using and also changed the red to match the law. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 00:27, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
 * About the photos, I only looked for stuff that has an acceptable CC license already. Just make it easier for the both of us. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 00:31, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Cool, thanks. I did try looking for photographs under http://www.flickr.com/creativecommons, but for some reason didn't find the third photograph, which is a good one. &mdash; Cheers, Jack Lee  –talk– 00:37, 10 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I used Singapore and NDP. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 00:39, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Ah, I only used "Singapore" and "flag". There were lots of nice photographs but most of them had inappropriate licences. &mdash; Cheers, Jack Lee  –talk– 00:52, 10 November 2007 (UTC)


 * When I did the search for Singapore and flag using the free image search, I got a lot of images that were not even Singapore related. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 01:01, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, there were a lot of "no censorship" images. I think this was part of a protest put on by Flickr members at a decision by Yahoo! to enable certain countries, including Singapore, not to allow "Restricted" images (i.e., those potentially with adult content) to be accessed. I didn't even know one could post such material on to Flickr. &mdash; Cheers, Jack Lee  –talk– 12:36, 10 November 2007 (UTC)


 * This article has enough images (and images are not a GA requirement). Adding more will simply encourage the anti-fair use brigade to come here and delete them all. --J.L.W.S. The Special One 13:42, 10 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm part of that "anti-fair use crowd" and we can have as many images as we want. As long as they are freely licensed, like Creative Commons, we can have all of them. The fair use people cannot, and will not, delete a Creative Commons image unless the license was false. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 18:12, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Yup, there isn't any problem with the images we've used in this article; all of them were licensed for free use (which is why I transferred them to Wikimedia Commons). We now have some good images, but I thought it would be good to have one or two more that illustrate representative uses of the national flag, for instance, people waving the flag during National Day celebrations, a whole HDB block decorated with flags, a flag-raising ceremony, or even the flag at half-mast following the death of an important personage. &mdash; Cheers, Jack Lee  –talk– 19:39, 10 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Would do? User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 20:44, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, that's great! Have uploaded it on to Wikimedia Commons as Image:NationalDayParade-Esplanade-20070809.jpg and inserted it into the article. &mdash; Cheers, Jack Lee  –talk– 22:30, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I done some other changes, but I think this is the last thing I think the article needs for GA. Heck, it is almost ready for FAC. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 00:00, 11 November 2007 (UTC)