Talk:Flanders and Swann

British Motorway
I removed the following: ''"The British Motorway" &mdash; written and performed in 1959 to celebrate the partial opening of the M1, Britain's first motorway. The title was also the entire text of the song, after which Flanders said apologetically "Of course, it isn't very long yet". I can find no reference for this (a Google search of +"Flanders and Swann" +"British Motorway"'' returns no hits.  --RobertG ♬ talk 09:00, 19 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I actually saw them make this little joke at the Fortune Theatre in 1959, but I have to agree it's unverifiable.

El Ingles 16:04, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Surviving Film Recording
I have moved my contribution here because as afr as I knoe ther are no published sources for this. The statement comes from my own knowledge of the BBC's archive. If anyone can provide a reference then I would be grateful... meanwhile I hope that this can remain here bcause this is important background information. jennyd60 ==

A complete film recording copy of this show does still exist in the BBC film and videotape archive at Windmill Rd Brentford but like many archival recordings from the time it was never intended to be preserved for the longterm and only survived by a happy accident. Consequently it suffers from many complex legal issues surrounding its copyright and rights ownership. Sadly these are likely to prevent it from being ever shown again (or released on video).

I'm not sure of the context for Jennyd60's remarks but I do remember seeing one programme about Flanders and Swann shown on BBC2 in the early nineties. If I remember correctly, it featured colour video of a Canadian show and was presented by Ian Wallace. It was remarked in the programme that footage of the two performing is very rare.

Flanders was very cautious about recording or filming shows; the LP of the Drop of a Hat was recorded (by George Martin) on its last performance and their last ever performance was videoed in Colour probably in New York, certainly in America - Flanders makes a joke introducing the Song of Patriotic Predudice saying "Without the English, you'd all be Spanish!". The video was for sale - I have a copy - I've just looked on Amazon and the video is no longer current and its a collector's item (so I'm glad I didn't clear it out when I got a PVR)!

It would be nice to see the BBC film; although its black and white and of poor quality I do remember watching it in the 60s and the performances (to my memory) were much stronger than the New York video when they were looking tired.

The article says the videoed performance was in the studio; having recently watched it, there is an audience present - there are shots showing Flanders with the audience in the background, and Flanders is surprised by the reaction of the joke about a song in French being sung in three parts; is there any more about the circumstance of the recording?

Apepper 15:33, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Discography?
Wouldn't it be an idea to combine the listing of songs with a listing of the contents of the discs. I think I've got the listing from the EMI set somewhere, and modifying it up into a table with song type, maybe credits, duration, date recorded. The EMI set includes some of the more uncommon material (e.g. The War Of...) which wasn't on the old LPs.

A Karley 12:58, 10 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I have the 3-CD set and could take on part of the work.
 * El Ingles 17:09, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Edit by 82.41.227.67 on 14 dec 06
I sure don't remember 4 different LPs. AFAIK there was just one. Anybody else? El Ingles 16:45, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I take that the anon was trying to point out that not all the recorded songs from the "Hat" shows appeared on the two "Hat" LPs; some of them were on the miscellany LP whose title I forget. I don't think the anon's comment helps the reader in any way, however, and it could be removed.  --RobertG &#9836; talk 17:31, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
 * It has. — Grstain | Talk 18:07, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

This edit spurred me to do some additions, and group the tracks in a better way. El Ingles 19:04, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Several studio recordings?
The opening paragraph mentions "...several studio-based albums.", AFAIK Bestiary and, arguably "And then we wrote" are the only two studio recordings. Apepper 17:15, 5 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I've changed "albums" to "tracks". The singles included in 'Extiary' were studio recordings. --El Ingles 17:22, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Missing recordings?
I recall George Martin discussing recording Flanders and Swann, and it occured to me that he recorded a two hour show which was edited down to a one hour LP. This implies that there were a number of songs or monologues left off the LP; can anyone confirm that? Apepper (talk) 18:59, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Picture
The picture of Michael Bernstein and Colin Stevens used in the article is wrongly labelled as being the original Flanders and Swann. Even if the caption is corrected is it helpful to have a picture of a pair of impersonators (excellent though they no doubt are)? Tim riley (talk) 19:17, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Is the picture of F & S at the head of the article really from 1966? Can anyone verify this? They look much, much younger than in other pictures from the mid-1960s. Martin S Taylor (talk) 17:13, 25 November 2017 (UTC)

Category:Flanders and Swann
There is a deletion review regarding this category at Deletion review/Log/2009 March 25 —  Tivedshambo   (t/c) 15:37, 25 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Following the failure of the above:


 * —  Tivedshambo   (t/c) 07:50, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

the youth of the heart
As i understand it, since Flanders daughter was on the radio today talking about it, 'the youth of my heart ' was music by swann but words by sydney carter. I'm not sure if this is the case for other of the songs, but the article would give the impression they are all written by F&S. She commented something about the piece being used in the act to give her father a rest between monologues and other F&S pieces, though I don't precisely remember the detail. Sandpiper (talk) 23:49, 28 April 2009 (UTC) I've looked at the CD and Youth of my Heart is attributed to Carter/Swann. Apepper (talk) 13:00, 23 July 2009 (UTC)


 * F & S did sing other songs by Carter/Swann, but they were not included in any major recordings. I have edited the article to credit Carter. --WJCB (talk) 22:00, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

inventors of the cd?
the article says ''At the Drop of a Hat was recorded twice. Once for a long-playing record in 1957, and again for CD in 1959 by engineer George Martin''. So when was the Compact Disc invented? There is a mistake here somewhere. Sandpiper (talk) 23:54, 28 April 2009 (UTC)


 * This obviously needs rewording. What I think it means is that the version on the modern CD is different to the version on the LP. When I get the chance I'll look at the cover notes on the CD and see if it verifies this. —  Tivedshambo   (t/c) 05:34, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

ISTR Martin said he recorded several nights' performances and edited the album from that. I also STR that it was the last few shows that were recorded - including the last ever Drop of a Hat. It may be the black & white film recording that was made is being referred to - that's never been released; the last I saw of it was a clip shown when Swann died.Apepper (talk) 22:20, 11 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I always beleived that it was the 1957 recording released in the US and the 1959 one in the UK, on LP at any rate. I may well be wrong. --WJCB (talk) 16:24, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

Contemporary reference to Flanders and Swann
The BBC comedy show Armstrong & Miller routinely does a Flanders and Swann skit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cveZR4e91kU&feature=related Bokononist (talk) 00:25, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, but you can't blame that on Flanders and Swann - it's not really anything like them, is it? It could, however, usefully be documented on Armstrong and Miller.  --RobertG ♬ talk 08:45, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
 * "Blame it on them"? It's a direct reference to the duo, I think it is worth including on this page. Caseykcole (talk) 22:34, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Number of songs
It says in the article that F & S wrote over 80 songs together, but I can count up over a hundred, so I've edited the page to my amount. I'd be glad to hear if anyone has any different totals? --WJCB (talk) 15:27, 17 January 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by WJCB (talk • contribs) 21:10, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I've added a song to a list that may be already too long, "The Whale (Mopy Dick)", which seems to me appropriate as an example of Swann's ability to parody musical styles. D Anthony Patriarche (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 22:25, 10 May 2017 (UTC)

Too many corkers
I have removed the following as I felt it was out of kilter with the rest of the article. There is no need to have a blow-by-blow listing of all Flanders' and Swann's songs by album - after all, making records was not their main occupation.

I moved it to here so that the information wouldn't get lost or forgotten: perhaps it could be incorporated into a Flanders and Swann discography article? What do others think?

{{show
 * Detailed discography
 * Removed from the article for discussion

Songs on At the Drop of a Hat
At the Drop of a Hat was recorded twice. Once for a long-playing record in 1957, and again on 2 May 1959 by producer George Martin. The latter recording, of the last performance at the Fortune Theatre, was issued on CD in 1991.
 * "A Transport of Delight" 5:53
 * "Song of Reproduction" 7:06
 * "The Gnu Song" 3:26
 * "Design for Living" 3:52
 * "Je Suis Le Ténébreux" 2:27
 * "Songs for Our Time" ("Philological Waltz" / "Satellite Moon" / "A Happy Song") 4:16
 * "A Song for the Weather" 2:05
 * "The Reluctant Cannibal" 3:55
 * "Greensleeves" (monologue) 7:51
 * "Misalliance" 3:55
 * "To Kokoraki" 5:05
 * "Madeira M'Dear" 3:52
 * "Too Many Cookers" 3:12
 * "Vanessa" 3:55
 * "Tried by the Centre Court" (monologue) 3:45
 * "The Youth of the Heart" 4:17 (written by Sydney Carter/Swann)
 * "The Hippopotamus Song" 3:12

Other songs from this show which were not recorded or included on compilations include;
 * "The Wompom" (released in the Bestiary of Flanders and Swann)
 * "Grandma" (originally part of an extensive Seven Ages of Women from the revue Airs on a shoestring(1953)
 * "In the Bath" (later reused in At the Drop of Another Hat)
 * "The Warthog" (released in the Bestiary)
 * "The Whale (Mopy Dick)" (released in the Bestiary)
 * "The Elephant" (released in the Bestiary)
 * "Miranda" (Swann's setting to a Greek poem about the Shakespearian character Miranda, precceds "to Kokoraki")
 * "Down Below" (written by Sydney Carter/Swann)
 * "The 100 Song" (part of the "Songs for our Time" set that never made it to disc, this started out as one of the "Bottom Five" for the revue "Fresh Airs" (1955). It was included out of context in the Extiary)
 * "The Great New Motorway" (topical song, originally for the London Show but adopted for any city with unfinished building projects e. g. "The Great New Gardiner Expressway" when in Toronto, 1961, or "The Great New Sydney Opera House" when in Adelaide, 1964)
 * "Good Literature" (written by Carter/Swann)
 * "Say who you are" (Carter/Swann)
 * "Topical Song (Harold Macmillan)" (following Eden's resignation over the Suez Crisis)
 * "Sing a Song of Fivepence" (about decimalisation, sang in Australia)
 * "Russia is Red, Dilly Dilly" (Sydney Carter, about space race)
 * "Commonwealth Fair" (released in the "Extiary")
 * "The Lord Chamerlain's Regulations" (A setting to three of the Lord Chamberlain's Regulations; Smoking is Permitted in the Auditorium, The Safety Curtain Must Be Raised and The Public May Leave at the End of Each Performance. Used as encores. Originally from the Revue "Fresh Airs" (1955))

Songs on At the Drop of Another Hat
Recorded during a performance at the Haymarket Theatre, London, in 1963.


 * "The Gas Man Cometh" 6:44.
 * "Sounding Brass"
 * "Los Olividados" (monologue) 6:38
 * "In the Desert" 3:45.
 * "Ill Wind" 5:01
 * "First and Second Law" 2:56
 * "All Gaulle" 3:53
 * "Horoscope" 1:10
 * "Friendly Duet" 2:20
 * "Bedstead Men" 3:16
 * "By Air" (monologue) 6:17
 * "Slow Train" 5:26
 * "A Song of Patriotic Prejudice" 2:51
 * "Built-Up Area" (monologue) 3:22
 * "In the Bath" 2:34
 * "Sea Fever" 3:55
 * "Hippo Encore" 1:16

Other songs include;
 * "Say Who You Are" (Carter)
 * "The Sloth" (released in Bestiary)
 * "Take Me Back to Byker" (Carter)
 * "Nursery Rhymes" (Nicky & Neddy, Currency Reform and Pop Goes the Weasel)
 * "The Ostritch" (released in "Bestiary")
 * "Bring Back the Birch"
 * "The Armadillo" (released in "Bestiary")
 * "Bilbo's Last Song"
 * "The Rat Race"
 * "Twice Shy" (released in the Extiary)
 * "Twenty Tons of TNT" (later released as a single)
 * "Lovely War"
 * "Motor Perpetuo"
 * "Food for Thought" (released in the Extiary)
 * "Prehistoric Complaint" (originally written for the revue 'Request the Pleasure' (1950)
 * "Guide to Britten" (originally written for the revue 'Airs on a Shoestring' (1953)

Flanders and Swann also liked to sing a song from At the Drop of a Hat at some point throughout the show, such as "In the Bath" or "A Transport of Delight".

Songs on The Bestiary of Flanders & Swann
This collection was recorded in studio, with no audience.


 * "The Warthog" (The Hog Beneath the Skin) 4:14
 * "The Sea Horse" 1:31
 * "The Chameleon" 1:01
 * "The Whale" (Mopy Dick) 3:29
 * "The Sloth" 3:14
 * "The Rhinoceros" 2:36
 * "Twosome: Kang & Jag" 2:04
 * "Dead Ducks" 0:41
 * "The Elephant" 2:40
 * "The Armadillo" 3:52
 * "The Spider" 2:21
 * "Threesome: Duck Billed Platypus/The Humming Bird/The Portuguese Man-O'-War" 1:05
 * "The Wild Boar" 2:23
 * "The Ostrich" 2:56
 * "The Wompom" 5:52

Songs on Tried by the Centre Court
Fifteen songs that were part of the stage show at one time or another, released 1977. Seven of them were included on the Bestiary CD (as The Extiary) to make up the running time.

The title derives from a synonymous monologue reflecting Flanders' love of Tennis, his mocking dislike of tennis umpires both at the centre of the court (at the net dividing the players) and on the most prestigious court in a venue, the Centre Court; and is also an allusion to it being like a legal trial at the central criminal court.


 * "Twice Shy" 4:12
 * "Commonwealth Fair" (a parody of Widecombe Fair) 4:06
 * "P** P* B**** B** D******" 6:20
 * "Paris" 4:05
 * "Eine Kleine Nachtmusik Cha-cha-cha" 0:31
 * "The Hundred song" 1:09
 * "Food for Thought" 3:55
 * "Bed" 3:19

Songs on And Then We Wrote
A BBC Radio production, 1974


 * Introduction
 * In The D'Oyly Cart
 * Prehistoric Complaint
 * The Album
 * There's A Hole In My Budget
 * Seven Ages Of Woman
 * Fragments
 * Pillar To Post
 * Guide To Britten
 * Excelsior
 * Rain On The Plage
 * Last Of The Line
 * Rockall
 * The Lord Chamberlain's Regulations

Songs released as a single
These were the only two songs recorded with musical instruments other than the piano. They were also included in The Extiary. }}
 * Side A: "20 Tons of TNT" 2:30
 * Side B: "The War of 14-18" 2:15

--RobertG ♬ talk 16:19, 17 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Most of the listing was my work, but I'm not inclined to fight for it. Wiki-articles about other musicians don't include such detail, to be sure. On the other hand, some of RobertG's "clean-up" of earlier today is without merit. Why does he not find the first line of "The English Are Best" to be appropriate as a summary, for example? --El Ingles (talk) 17:26, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
 * "...fight for it"? "Without merit"?  I'm sorry you feel like that.  If you think "up with the English and down with the rest" is better, why not just say so and put it back?  What about my suggestion of a Flanders and Swann discography article?  Did that have any merit?  --RobertG ♬ talk 18:48, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Flanders and Swann discography has my vote. Rothorpe (talk) 19:26, 17 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Could we, rather than have a discograhy, have a list of Flanders & Swann songs, as not all of them were released on album, and some on At The Drop of Another Hat were originally sung in At The Drop of a Hat (e.g. 'In The Bath')? It could also contain songs they wrote for other revues. I would be willing to compile this if others like the idea. --WJCB (talk) 16:23, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

"The Gasman Cometh" and the Parable of the Broken Window
I wonder if it would be appropriate to add a link to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window to the description of "The Gasman Cometh" (Section "Songs of..."). It seems to be a good example of, and maybe even an intentional reference to (considering that the song could be taken to imply that the workmen are botching jobs on purpose to create more work for each other) that economic fallacy/controversy. (Complete lyrics: http://www.iankitching.me.uk/humour/hippo/gas.html) 88.90.130.204 (talk) 10:44, 18 March 2011 (UTC)molva


 * I suspect that although the net effect of calling in the repair men is to make work for the other trades, the song is really more an illustration of The Law of Unintended Consequences, in that the lack of foresight by each repairman whilst fixing the problem in his own area of expertise, makes another unrelated service unusable. So the story teller can get the initial problem he has fixed, but only at the expense of creating additional problems. At the end of the week (in the song) the story teller again has the gas problem he started out with, having come full circle.

Can a song be "rare"?
I wonder if the word "rare" is appropriate in the final paragraph of the section Songs of Flanders and Swann? Every song in the world is unique, and hence the term rare can be applied to any song that has ever been written. A song can be rarely heard, or rarely performed, or rarely recorded. The LP on which it is recorded can be rare and difficult to find. There can be a rare set of circumstances that caused the song to be written or commissioned. But I don't think that the term "rare" can be applied to the song itself. Mandolamus (talk) 11:43, 14 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Good information theory point! I piece of information can be obscure, but not rare.  This may by the result of WP's widespread analogy that songs, singles and tracks are the same thing. :/– Ian, DjScrawl (talk) 11:58, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

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