Talk:Fleet Admiral

Article
This article seems to imply that "Fleet Admiral" is the default name and that all others are variations on it, but doesn't provide any evidence for this other than that the US Navy uses Fleet Admiral. "Admiral of the Fleet" is a far older rank and was undoubtedly adapted to produce the US rank, and treating it as a variant is a little US-centric to say the least. Proteus (Talk) 13:35, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)


 * You can always split the articles and make one for Fleet Admiral (UK) or Fleet Admiral (US). I'm actually planning on doing that when I get around to it since the article started as USA only and expanded to the other countries User:Husnock 2 Aug 04

"(In some navies, however, such as the German Kriegsmarine during World War II, "Admiral of the Navy" has been considered an even higher rank than Admiral of the Fleet or its equivalent.)" In Germany, as far I know, there was just one Admiral rank above the four-star-Admiral: Grand Admiral. This holds true for WWI and WWII. So there is no specialty as this remark suggests, Germany fits into the "normal" pattern of four "normal" admiral ranks plus one admiral rank above, called Grand Admiral in the German case. Chris, 11 May 2005

Mergy mergy
It looks to me like there are many articles about essentially the same rank, in different nations. Currently, to get a good overview, you have to look at almost a dozen articles, and it's easy to miss most of them because of inadequate inter-linking, and a reader may get tired of jumping between stubs before they find anything useful. Many links between these articles point to a reference that's not the best choice. Couldn't most of this material be covered with less duplication in one or two comprehensive articles?

Some of the general introductory information from Admiral is completely missing and un-linked from the various Fleet Admiral/Admiral of the Fleet articles. If nothing else, each of these articles should link more prominently to Admiral.

Are the following articles about the same thing? I realize the exact terms are used differently by some nations, but the nuance could be explained in the text.
 * Admiral of the Fleet
 * Fleet Admiral

Since the differences aren't consistent, couldn't we also throw in the following, and make it a comprehensive article about superior and supreme admirals?
 * Admiral of the Navy
 * Grand Admiral

These three are definitely about the exact same rank:
 * Admiral of the Fleet (USSR)
 * Admiral of the Fleet (Russia)
 * Fleet Admiral (Russia)

And the dozen-plus articles about particular nations' fleet admirals: I'd like to see the rank insignia and major features outlined in a section on one page, and then some more detailed histories could remain broken out in the individual articles.

What do you think? —Michael Z. 2005-08-4 16:09 Z 


 * This was at one time a combined article and it was very long, very confusing, and very combersome. The page was changed to a disambig some time ago.  Also, bear in mind, some the articles like Fleet Admiral (U.S.) and Wonsu are pretty detailed with their own article specific links and sources.  I actually like it the way it is.  Emphasis could be placed on expanding some of the shorting Fleet Admiral rank articles into large more comprehensive article.  About the Russia thing, World War III is going on with tha right now.  See: Fleet Admiral of the Russian Federation for current battle casualities. -Husnock 16:54, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Merge 2007
It seems this topic was raised and dropped two years ago, so perhaps it is timely to consider it again. I have proposed merging Admiral of the Fleet into this article. Reasons: Please comment below. --Russ (talk) 21:15, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) This article already explains the variety of terminology used in different navies for more-or-less equivalent ranks, including "Admiral of the Fleet."
 * 2) Admiral of the Fleet is marked as a disambiguation page, but doesn't really serve that function, and therefore is likely to confuse readers.

Admiral of the Fleet
This article should not be redirected or replaced by the US article. It should redirect to the Admiral of the Fleet article, to do the US thing would be extreme US bias. 70.29.208.129 (talk) 15:15, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Fleet Admiral (United States)

 * See the close WP:RM discussion at Talk:Fleet Admiral (United States) where it is decided to NOT use Fleet Admiral for the US. 70.29.210.130 (talk) 11:34, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

the natural redirect for fleet admiral is Fleet Admiral (United States)
--diremarc (talk) 18:27, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * linguistically, fleet admiral (United States) is a much closer match than "admiral of the fleet" is.
 * usage:
 * the fleet admiral (United States) is addressed as "fleet admiral".
 * the admiral of the fleet is addressed as "admiral of the fleet".
 * relevancy:
 * military personal in the US outnumber commonwealth military personal 5 to 1.
 * combat zone US military personal outnumber combat zone commonwealth military personal over 100 to 1.
 * in the news, the phrase "fleet admirals" is predominately used and used to mean "fleet admiral (United States)"
 * in the news, the phrase "admirals of the fleet" is seldom used and when used means "admirals of the fleet"
 * consistency: the redirect and the target should be as consistent as possible.
 * logic: the logical redirect for fleet admiral is Fleet Admiral (United States).
 * hermeneutically: understanding "fleet admiral (United States)" is established by reference to the individual components "fleet admiral" and the "United States" and understanding individual components "fleet admiral" and the "United States" is by reference to the entirety, "fleet admiral (United States).
 * say what you mean and mean what you say:
 * "fleet admiral" means "fleet admiral" and "admiral of the fleet" means "admiral of the fleet".
 * conversely, "admiral of the fleet" does not mean "fleet admiral" and "fleet admiral" does not mean "admiral of the fleet".


 * Fleet admiral is listed as one of the topics covered in the Admiral of the Fleet article, so what you're saying doesn't matter, since fleet admirals are covered in the Admiral of the Fleet article. The US is not the only place the term is used or referred to. 70.29.210.130 (talk) 11:33, 9 June 2009 (UTC)