Talk:Francesco Cafiso

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Birthday
Hi, the birthdate is wrong. Francesco was born on May 24, 1989, not on the 4th. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DidliouBoo (talk • contribs) 22:50, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
 * The source gives the 24th – thanks for pointing out the typo. EddieHugh (talk) 23:10, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

Message for EddieHugh
Hi EddieHugh, why you changed the meaning of some sentences written in the reference articles by journalists? More in general, you have summarized some sentences giving them a negative connotation. This way, the content it’s not impartial and neutral as it should be. This is not fair both for the readers and the main subject of the Wikipedia page (the Artist, in this case).

Also, please stop changing back the contents every time people make some edits to your text. Even if you administrate this page, doesn’t mean that you can decide what to write and how to write it.

This is a free encyclopedia and everyone can edit its contents, even more so if this is done adhering to the biographies of living persons policies and in total respect of the sourced materials rules (even if considering journalist’s articles like “sourced material” doesn’t mean that what they wrote it’s always the truth!).

For example, you wrote: "For the following three years Cafiso did not record and toured much less than before".[4]

But the journalist wrote: "After Moody’n, he went quiet. There were no new recordings, and he cut way back on his busy touring schedule. In 2014, word began to get out that Cafiso was up to something”.

What you wrote sounds ambiguous, it could mean that he didn’t play as much as before for whatever reason but the article says something different: he decided to play less gigs because he wanted to focus on a new project. For this reason, “in 2014, word began to get out that Cafiso was up to something”.

Please, make a correction or allow people to edit the text.

Also, you wrote: He re-emerged with a new band that was strongly influenced by Sicilian music, and released the three-CD recording 3.

But the journalist said that Cafiso’s “La Banda” is like no jazz that has been played before. There may be suggestions of Carla Bley, and Nino Rota’s circus music for Fellini films, and perhaps Charles Mingus. But marching down the middle of La Banda is a rowdy Sicilian street band. (The marching band is a foundation of Sicilian music.)

He also says that “La Banda” was inspired by a photo of Sicily that brought him back emotions, images and sounds of his homeland.

So, Cafiso’s new band was not strongly influenced by Sicilian music itself, which sounds folkloristic, but it’s still jazz music where marching bands are an important foundation both for Sicilian cultural / musical backgrounds and for jazz music too (that’s why the journalist mentions Charles Mingus, for instance. More in general, think to New Orleans marching bands as an element in jazz music too…).

Furthermore, the three-CD recording “3”, included "Contemplation" recorded with the London Symphony Orchestra, "La Banda" and "20 Cents Per Note". That’s why the journalist says that “Much of the music was written by Cafiso, which was also a change from his earlier career”.

He is referring to all the three albums, not only to “La Banda”.

Please, make a correction or allow people to edit the text.

Also, you wrote: "In 2011, Verve Records released his Moody'n, which was bebop-based and was judged by some critics to be illustrative of Cafiso's lack of innovation".[4]

But the journalist said something that doesn’t sound so bad as you wanted to underline: "By 2011, when he released Moody’n through Verve and was still playing (brilliant) bebop, some critics began to worry. In an art form that prioritizes innovation, Cafiso seemed to be mired in history.”

But then he continues: “Some of those who heard him at the Umbria Jazz Festival in July of that year were startled (and puzzled) by his new band, his new repertoire and his new saxophone language. By late 2015, with his appearance at the Belgrade Jazz Festival, and especially with the release of a new three-CD set, 3, it became clear that the old Cafiso was gone, and a new one was on the loose”.

Please, make a correction or allow people to edit the text.

So, my feeling is that you want to point out the most “negative” aspects every time you write something. Why you do it?

Again, please, be impartial and neutral, and stop deciding what contents people should write and how they should write them.

That’s not your role.

PS

I also wanted to suggest an important content that should be included in this page:

In 2019, Francesco returned to the recording studio with the infamous London Symphony Orchestra, giving life to his project "Irene of Boston - Conversation avec Corto Maltese”, which was released in 2020.


 * Thank you for your comments. Most of the edits since the article was rescued (largely by me) from deletion have been attempts at adding unsourced material and a very positive spin. As I have stated repeatedly in my edit summaries, we have to use reliable sources. The last edit (by DidliouBoo; I don't know if that's another ID that you use) added unsourced material (the same paragraph that you mention at the end of your comments) and put a very positive spin on one part.
 * On your specific points: the addition of "went quiet. There were no... up to something" was a copyright infringement. My paraphrasing of "There were no new recordings, and he cut way back on his busy touring schedule" as "did not record and toured much less than before" is accurate. "in 2014, word began to get out that Cafiso was up to something": 2014 was three years later, which I covered with "For the following three years"; "up to something" implies working on changes, which is covered by "re-emerged with a new band". Your reading – "he decided to play less gigs because he wanted to focus on a new project" – isn't something that I see in the source; it's interpretation (maybe it's closer to reality, but at Wikipedia we – strangely, at times, I admit – use the sources, not reality). I agree that the Sicilian parts are not very clear. "marching down the middle of La Banda is a rowdy Sicilian street band. (The marching band is a foundation of Sicilian music)" sounds like it's stating that Sicilian music was an influence, possibly a strong one ("down the middle"). And the sentence is about his band, not just himself. I'll add something about it still being jazz.
 * Continuing: the journalist didn't write "Much of the music was written by Cafiso, which was also a change from his earlier career"; that was my paraphrasing of the journalist's "Cafiso has never been known as a composer, but 3 contains 29 new compositions". "judged by some critics to be illustrative of Cafiso's lack of innovation" again looks like an accurate paraphrasing of "some critics began to worry. In an art form that prioritizes innovation, Cafiso seemed to be mired in history." But adding something to cover "playing (brilliant) bebop" looks fair. EddieHugh (talk) 19:22, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I've made the two changes that I mentioned above. If you have a reliable source for the Irene of Boston... part, please add the text with the source (I recommend dropping "infamous" – that's puffery). EddieHugh (talk) 19:33, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

Another message for EddieHugh
When I read your sentence, I wondered ( and people could do the same): ” Why did he not record and toured much less than before?”; there could be hundreds of answers to this question, of course.

That’s why, in my opinion, your sentence it’s not accurate, but sounds vague and ambiguous. You should be more specific.

The journalist says that "he cut way back on his busy touring schedule”, it means that he decided to do so for a specific reason (in fact the journalist also says that he was up to something).

That’s what I mean when I say "he decided" to play less gigs because he was focusing on something new.

Also:

you wrote "judged by some critics to be well executed but illustrative of Cafiso's lack of innovation.[4]” Why don’t you use the same adjective as it is in the source?

I think that the most accurate sentence is this one below: "judged by some critics to be brilliant bebop but illustrative of Cafiso's lack of innovation.[4]”

Please, make a correction.

Please don't put things down and be fair.

Talking about the Irene of Boston… part, is not a secret that he released this album last December. It’s plenty of sources in the web. I agree with you on dropping the “infamous” adjective. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AFAX72 (talk • contribs) 15:42, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * The reader might wonder "Why did he not record and toured much less than before?", but if the source doesn't give us the answer, we shouldn't (mustn't) add one. Adding one would be original research. On "brilliant bebop": we shouldn't copy words in without using quotation marks (see WP:PARAPHRASE), and using them makes it one person's opinion, not a summary of opinion. EddieHugh (talk) 17:00, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

Hi Wikipedians,

I'd like to point out something about the sentence below: "He re-emerged with a new band that was influenced by Sicilian music yet retained jazz sensibilities”.

The journalist says in article that "The marching band is A FOUNDATION of Sicilian music”, which means "one of the elements of Sicilian music”.

Marching bands are an important ingredient for sure, but it is not the only one in Sicilian musical background. That's why if you talk only about “Sicilian Music”, you’re talking about popular folk music which is not what we’re referring to in this case.

Also, marching bands are important in the jazz tradition too. In fact, I heard many times Cafiso saying that he was inspired by the marching band tradition as a common element that we can find both in the Sicilian tradition and in the jazz tradition (marching bands of New Orleans, for example). That’s probably what the journalist meant too. More specifically, the tradition of marching bands is what Sicilians and Italian immigrants of the south brought to New Orleans in the early days of jazz. So, we’re still referring to Jazz and not “Sicilian music”.

In this regard, I think it would be better to mention marching bands in that sentence. Like: "He re-emerged with a new band that was inspired by Sicilian marching bands yet retained with jazz sensibilities” or something like that… — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gesaloniè (talk • contribs) 18:59, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

I also agree with AFAX72 about him playing less gigs for a specific reason. The journalist says it clearly in the article: he decided to play less gigs because he was focusing on something new... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gesaloniè (talk • contribs) 17:18, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
 * "The journalist says it clearly in the article" – please quote the part where this is clearly stated. All I see is "After Moody'n [2011], he went quiet. There were no new recordings, and he cut way back on his busy touring schedule. In 2014, word began to get out that Cafiso was up to something." EddieHugh (talk) 19:22, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

"In 2014, word began to get out that Cafiso was up to something.” means that in the previous three years (while he wasn’t on tour as much as before) he worked on something he shared publicly in 2014. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gesaloniè (talk • contribs) 15:46, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
 * No, it doesn't. 'In 2014, word began to get out that Cafiso had been up to something for the previous three years' would mean that. But that's not what the sentence is. EddieHugh (talk) 18:27, 30 March 2021 (UTC)