Talk:Frank Newman Turner

Suggestions
Hi, I found your message on the help desk Help_desk and thought I might attempt to help (as just another user), as this seems to be your first article.

You should create your own User and Talk pages, to get messages etc.

The main content of the article looks pretty good, but everything needs to have a reference. It seems as if you have read (or have access to) the works you cite, eg, but each statement (or sometimes series of statements) from the same source ideally needs its own reference.
 * General comments

It's worth checking for Wikilinks for almost every name you put in the text: eg W. E. Shewell-Cooper and Lawrence D. Hills have their own article. Check every single WL to make sure it doesn't land you at a disambig page like - to choose a random example - Wharncliffe.

The title of your draft article isn't quite right according to WP naming conventions. It needs a full stop after the F as in F. Newman Turner. I can help with the renaming later if you like, it's a slight pain, but useful to know how to do. Or the nice people at the help desk will show you how.

Over the years, I have become biased in favour of a particular method of making references using the sfn and harv tools (which in turn are based around the Harvard Referencing system); there are other ways of referencing on WP. My draft articles User:MinorProphet/The joy of sfn and User:MinorProphet/Bibliography, attempt to show how to solve many of the problems I encountered while making sfn-type references for the Number Theory article. Editing the articles should show how it all works. Accurate filling-in of the citation parameters usually pays dividends.
 * Referencing

If needed, allows you to create a separate Notes section, listing refs like this


 * 1) I usually create a ==References== section, with Notes, Citations and Sources sections.
 * 2) In the Sources section, make a cite book entry for each book you need to quote from. The parameter names of cite book use all lower case, eg |last=Jones, |isbn=012398474 (eg).
 * 3) For each statement sourced from a printed book or reputable journal in the main text, use , eg this: instead of . If you use the same page number twice, sfn will automagically concatenate the refs, thus: a different cited page results in another entry in the reflist, thus.
 * 4) harv references need a |last= and a |year= parameters to work properly. Sometimes you have to fudge it a bit.
 * 5) You *can't* use sfns inside a ref note so use harv or harvnb: eg,
 * 6) cite journal can also use |ref=harv, but as it stands, you need to provide more info about the source, since  produces an error:  It needs more info, such as |publisher=, |title= |author= if known.
 * 7) Info on many books can be found on Google Books: on the "About this book" page gives all the info you need, including the isbn number. Worldcat.org is good for accurate bibliographical info. Books on Archive.org usually need transcribing from the title page, since the book description provided is often incorrect.

You can use the same cite book system for Turner's own writings, then you can re-use them in any other articles you might write in the future. You might rename the 'Bibliography' section to 'Select bibliography', and include Turner's name in the cite book as |last=Turner |first=F. Newman.

Please post a message on my talk page if you need more help. >MinorProphet (talk) 18:18, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Copy edit, 24 June 2015
Hi, I did some editing, feel free to change any of my suggestions. I often put comments in my edit summaries rather than on the talk page: I imagine you have discovered the "View History" button where the comments can be seen. >MinorProphet (talk) 23:00, 24 June 2015 (UTC) Edited by MinorProphet (talk) 23:12, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Picture deleted
Hi Roger,

It appears that the picture of FNT has been been deleted from the Wikimedia Commons. I'm sorry, I didn't check the picture properly when you first uploaded it. Extract from this article's history page: Removing "Frank_Newman_Turner,_c1951.jpg", it has been deleted from Commons by Jcb because: no OTRS permission after 30 days.

I still haven't been to look exactly why, but I suspect that you need to attach one or more copyright notices (or Commons licensing information) to the picture to remove any doubt about who owns the copyright. The "no OTRS permission" quoted above refers to an automated system which checks copyright permissions.

The Wikimedia editor User:Jcb who deleted the picture helps to run the OTRS system. I suggest that you post a message on his talk page (click 'Add topic'), giving him as much information about the photo, if you know who took it, when and where; and who owns (or might own) the copyright. If you own the copyright, say so, and he should be able to help you. Or you may need to seek the copyright owner's permission to give the picture a generally-available licence.

I would attempt to help, but I think it probably needs your personal attention. The experienced people at Help Desk will most likely be able to point you in the right direction if you are still baffled. Good luck! >MinorProphet (talk) 02:23, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
 * OTRS is not some automated system, it's OTRS. There is an unfinished email conversation between Roger and a colleague of mine, stored as ticket number 2015070310015616, that went silent more than 30 days ago. That's why the file has been removed. The file can be restored if a compatible copyright situation can be established. Jcb (talk) 15:55, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for clarifying the situation, Jcb. Sorry for misdescribing OTRS after a first-ever cursory glance at the page: I normally live under a stone with my friends Wiki Markup and sfn, and I rarely need to worry my head with how the rest of the Wikimedia empire™ works. For me, Luddite that I am, an 'automated system' is one which precludes the need to set out on foot carrying a verbal or written message. Thus email and bots make up a partly-automated system overseen by hard-working people. When bots start writing Good Articles, that's an almost fully-automated system, and our job will be nearly done. Dag, :>MinorProphet (talk) 13:09, 22 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Dear MinorProphet

Thank you for your helpful comments. I have only just picked up on this conversation and, being unfamiliar with the lingo, have only now discovered where I can communicate with you and other helpers. I have tried, without success, to contact a possible descendant of the original photographer who took the picture of F. Newman Turner which was deleted from my article. We have a number of copies of the print which was commissioned for F. Newman Turner's books around 1950. I can only continue to try and track down the relevant people. The conversation went silent as the picture was placed with the article so I assumed it was OK. So, onward and sideways, if not downward! Roger NT 82.3.13.240 (talk) 15:19, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

Conflict of interest
Although the originating editor of this article has a connection with its subject, I feel that the article maintains an unbiased NPOV. I randomly responded to a help Desk enquiry from the editor some time ago when it was an unfinished draft, and I believe that the article presents a balanced view of its subject in a non-controversial way and is free of personal bias. I have removed the COI tag; I don't think there is any content that goes against WP:NPOV. Please contact me on my talk page if there are any further concerns. >MinorProphet (talk) 19:56, 17 February 2016 (UTC)