Talk:Ganesh Chaturthi/Archive 1

Problems???
''Despite the well meaning idea behind this festival, in modern times it has led to increasing religious tensions between the hardcore Hindus and Muslims. The increasing number of fundamental hindus out to stir trouble try to pass along the routes inhabited by other religious groups thereby inciting violence (on the lines of the Orange Order marches). Environmentalists too have questioned the dumping of the idols made increasingly with chemicals which pollute the lakes and seas. On September 2004, the Chennai High Court imposed a temporary ban on such immersions. Every year there are atleast a couple of casualties associated with accidents (while dumping the idols) or clashes associated with this.''

It would be helpful if the author of this particular section would provide some references. This seems to be a rather generalised view based on a few random incidents.

Rohitbd 15:32, September 6, 2005 (UTC)

Example of non-Hindus involved with Ganesh Chaturthi
Changed the "Problems" section and added information about non-Hindus' involvement in Ganesh Chaturthi along with reference for the same.

Rohitbd 15:58, September 10, 2005 (UTC)

The section tittled "Problems" is too specific for an encylopedia article and is based on isolated incidents. Removal this section is suggested.

Geeteshgadkari (talk) 13:16, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Placing background on Ganesha on the main Ganesha page
Namaste! I notice that the Ganesh Chaturthi page contains some general background that is duplicative of general material found on the Ganesha page. It may be easier to do maintenance if this duplicate content were simplified, with the general material about Ganeshji found on his main page, and concentrating on information about the festival on the Ganesh Chaturthi page. Do others agree with this idea, or are these other points of view? ॐ गं गणपतये नमः Buddhipriya 05:20, 8 February 2007 (UTC)


 * No one has responded about this suggestion, so I am going to test the waters by pruning a little bit of unreferenced material of a general nature that is duplicative of general issues which would be better covered in the iconography section of the Ganesha page. Here is what I am removing in case someone needs to refer to it:

As a matter of interest there are about 91 different figures of Ganesha according to research done by several scholars. The details of their make up may vary from figure to figure, but with no change in the main set-up. It is the enigma of certain striking variations in details that the sublime in the figures of Ganesha has to be sought for. Some figures are seen sitting with their trunks turned towards the left side, invariably reaching a bowl of modaks (a sweet edible and festive preparation), while in some figures, the trunks are seen turning towards the right and in yet others, the trunk is straight, hanging down, with or without a pot of nectar in the curve of their trunks. In some images, Ganesha is seen standing, resting his right foot on a lion and his left foot on a mouse (his chosen mode of transport), while in some other images, his left foot is found resting on a mouse and his right foot lifted in an effort to touch the serpent girdle - his mount carrying a jewel in its mouth.
 * If it is to go back in, please provide a solid reference for these statements so the citation can be studied in relation to other sources on this interesting subject. ॐ गं गणपतये नमः Buddhipriya 01:22, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

rollback needed?
this page may need a rollback to correct vandalism but i don't know how to do it. can someone help? Buddhipriya 06:09, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Hello, we have now Ganesh Chaturthi, Ganesha Chaturthi, and Ganesh festival – I feel something should be done to reorganize these articles. Kindly give your suggesitons. Thanks.--Bhadani 2 July 2005 16:43 (UTC)

I did the merge with Ganesh Festival. The Ganesh{|a} merge had already been done. 59.92.194.4 14:05, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Another major component that this entry is missing is some discussion of the extent to which the public performance of Ganesh Chaturthi is associtated with and often underwritten by the Hindu right. This is true not only in Maharashtra, where in Mumbai the event always features extensive Shiv Sena presence and is often marred by outbreaks of Hindu-Muslim violence; but in other places where this has become a major public event as well. One example would be Hyderabad, where the event has featured several incidents over the years.
 * This is true not only in Maharashtra, where in Mumbai the event always features extensive Shiv Sena presence and is often marred by outbreaks of Hindu-Muslim violence...
 * This is not true. Having spent most of my life in Mumbai, I can say that it is not an exclusively Shiv Sena related event. Even violence is not there (atleast not communal). Violence in Hyderabad does not mean that the festival generally has violence involved.
 * Rohitbd 15:09, September 6, 2005 (UTC)

I would not say that this should be the formost emphasis, but to leave it out entirely is irresponsible.

Finally, I think the ToI article that has been included gives readers an excellent description of what the festival actually looks like and the reasoning behind various pujas. However, the heading 'Rooted in Tradition' is completely misleading, since as the article makes clear we are dicussing a festival that began in its current form in the 19th century. Ganesh Chathurthi is one of the most important and visible examples of modern Hinduism, and to imply that it is 'traditional' does a disservice to the creativity (and mischief) of Tilak and other people who brough the festival to prominence in the modern era.

Name
Ganesh Chaturti is the right name. =Nichalp  «Talk»=  09:15, September 5, 2005 (UTC)
 * No, IMHO Ganesh Chaturthi is the correct name. Some pronounce it as Chaturti - it is probably due to accent. Rohitbd 15:02, September 6, 2005 (UTC)
 * No problems with that, I was commenting on the Ganesha bit of Ganesha Chaturthi  =Nichalp   «Talk»=  08:58, September 10, 2005 (UTC)

Headline text
The festival is of the Hindus. It is not associated with any political party. The names can be merged into one entry - Ganesh Chaturthi. This is how it is referred to in Maharashtra. This festival occurs on the fourth day (chaturthi)of the Hindu calendar. Ganesh Chaturthi occurs around August. In these public celebrations huge images of Ganesha ranging from 10 feet to 40 feet are installed and along with the daily prayers and hymns, there are entertainment programmes which are a major attraction. Till the turn of the last century, this festival was celebrated only in homes and temples. But during the struggle for independence against British rule, freedom fighter Lokmanya Tilak made it a public festival. Tilak did this so as to cleverly broadcast his political message of freedom for India. Carried out in the garb of a religious activity, it was difficult for the British Administration to curb it. But the festival once having acquired a public form for a political purpose, retained that form even after the political purpose ceased to exist. Hence even today in independent India Ganeshotsava is celebrated both publicly and privately.


 * Premkumar

wtf
a show of strenght?! who the hell wrote that?

Ganesh chaturthi v Ganesh Jayanti
I am moving this comment from the main page to here (where it belongs!):
 * "If Ganesh Chaturthi is the birthday of Lord Ganesh, then what is Ganesh Jayanti is celebrated for, which falls in month of Magh of Hindu calendar (Jan-Feb) of each year. Pls check and update this page accordingly."

Can some editor address this issue in the article, if needed ? (sorry, I haven't read the complete article myself yet) Abecedare 07:32, 9 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Thank you for raising this interesting subject. First step may be to nail down some variations in how people talk about these things.  Ganeshji loves all of the attention given to him, so there are many opportunities to celebrate him.  Since Wikipedia is about sourcing, here ia a background quote from Thapan that at least helps define dates for the annual festivals: "[regarding Gaṇapati festivals when special pūjā is performed:] 'These are the Vināyaka caturthī in the śuklapakṣa (the fourth day of the waxing moon) in the month of bhādrapada (August/September) and the Gaṇeśa jayanti (Gaṇeśa's birthday) celebrated on the cathurthī of the kṛṣṇapakṣa (fourth day of the waning moon) in the month of māgha (January/February)' Thapan (op. cit., p. 215)."


 * So the user's question is quite correct to make these two things clear. The terms may be a little more confusing if you take into account the monthly worship cycle in addition to the annual cycle.  Each lunar month also has a worship opportunity on the fourth day of each half, but I believe the terms may vary in different calendars.  In the one I use the kṛṣṇapakṣa cathurthī is named Saṃkaṣṭachaturīvratam and the śuklapakṣa cathurthī is named Vaināyakī vratam.  I am ignorant of how much variation these terms may have in other calendars and would be interested to hear from others how their monthly calendars are marked.  Both of these monthly dates are good times to remember Ganeshji in special ways.


 * So if we have got the terms right, I would say that the day when we may give Ganeshji birthday cake, which he loves, is in māgha for certain. Next we must try to look up more details on how the date of the annual festival in bhādrapada became associated.  It rings a bell somewhere in the Ganesha Purana but I am not sure.  I hope others will share what they know. Buddhipriya 01:58, 20 February 2007 (UTC)


 * A scriptural citation for the bhādrapada birthdate is to Śiva Purāṇa II.iv.2.68 (cf. Thapan p. 142, note 100); also the same is given in the Rudrasaṃhitā of the Śiva Purāṇa II.iv.18.35-7 (cf. Thapan p. 144, note 169). There his birth is given as the dark half of the month of bhādrapada (August/September) at the auspicious hour of moonrise.  So we may definitely give him more birthday cake on that day too.  More citations must be found regarding the Jayanti. Buddhipriya 02:38, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Renaming of article
IMO the article should be named Ganesha Festival as it discusses the whole festival rather than the day of Ganesh Chaturthi only, which is the benning of the festival. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Redtigerxyz (talk • contribs) 10:55, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Bad grammar and use of Hindi
This festival is observed in the lunar month of bhadrapada shukla paksha chathurthi madhyahana vyapini purvaviddha. If Chaturthi prevails on both days, the first day should be observed. Even if chaturthi prevails for complete duration of madhyahana on the second day, but if it prevails on previous day's madhyahana period even for one ghatika (24 minutes) the previous day should be observed

---

This doesn't make sense to an English native speaker or non-Hindi speaker. Hindi should be in brackets with the English word in the text. Also, the grammar needs tidying up because at the moment the above makes absolutely no sense.

LGANESH FESTIVAL THERE HUSTLE &BUSTLE DURING GANESH UTSAV AS THE PEOPLE OF ANY LOCALITY ARRANGE DJ'S BEFORE VISARJAN. THE PEOPLE DANCCE DRUMS DJ'S LOUDSPEAKER THE GANPATI CRIES SEEING THE POOR CONDITION OF HIS CHILDREN THIS IS TRUE JUST SEE IN THE EYES OF LORD DURING VISARJAN.

MY THOUGHT SAYS THAT WHAT WE DO DURING THIS FESTIVAL WE MUST GIVE THIS MONEY TO THE EDUCATION OF HIS SMALL BLESSINGS (KIDS) AND FOR THE BETTERMENT OF THERE LIFE WE MUST DONATE THAN YOU MUST SEE THE BEAUTIFUL SMILE OF LORD -PREETY SHARMA —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.240.132.51 (talk) 16:44, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Needs a section on date
Since the Holiday Template is the most applicable template for this article and as does not fall of a simple Gregorian calender date, the article definitely needs a date section.

removed the following that might find place in the date sections as an example: "For the year 2007 in the Western Calendar, Ganesha Chaturthi commenced on Saturday, 15 September and its allied festival for Ganesha's mother, Gauri (a form of Parvathi) called Gauri Puja comes on September 13 (the day before)  ."Myaoon (talk) 23:02, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

History section
The History section is repeatedly been renamed as "Lokmanya Bal Gangadhar Tilak's Revival efforts". The problem is that the section has also info unrelated to Tilak and pre-dating him. -- Redtigerxyz Talk 15:51, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

It has been changed again, maybe it should have that as a subtitle inside that section PeterBennettfriedpies (talk) 15:43, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Moved to here
The following external link was in the 'See also' section — it belongs in the 'External links' section (or perhaps it doesn't belong at all): ~E:74.60.29.141 (talk) 05:11, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
 * http://www.facebook.com/gajananmitramandal

Ganesh Chaturthi
Hi, Please specify in which countries this date for Ganesh Chaturthi applies. In Trinidada and Tobago the date is September 8, 2013 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.213.210.104 (talk) 13:05, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

font size of the test
Some of the text is appearing small. What can be done? -- Abhijeet Safai (talk) 06:25, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Ganesh festival
Some of the content was removed/repeated in the Ganesh festival article, which was a redirect. Please discuss any proposal to split here first. -- Redtigerxyz Talk 11:02, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

Date
I’ve tagged the Date section to be clarified, as it makes little sense at the moment. What is madhyahana? If Chaturthi is the 4th day of the month, how can it fall on two days? And what is bhadrapada shukla paksha chathurthi madhyahana vyapini purvaviddha? what language is it, even? Does it say anything more than the first sentence of the paragraph? Would someone care to explain? Moonraker12 (talk) 16:56, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Separate article is needed in my opinion for ganesh festival
I feel that separate article would be pertinent as these are two different things. People form India can throw more light on it. Thanks. --Abhijeet Safai (talk) 05:11, 14 November 2013 (UTC)


 * See the related discussion above, or did you have some different point to make? Abecedare (talk) 17:56, 14 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Some references

http://www.panditjiusa.com/ganesh_festival.htm http://www.surajinfo.com/Ganesha/Default1.asp http://www.transliteral.org/pages/z70731131809/view http://www.surajinfo.com/Ganesha/Default1.asp --Abhijeet Safai (talk) 05:09, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

Title change
Ganesha is the name, not Ganesh. can someone please change it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.68.250.79 (talk) 22:59, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

Ganesh Chaturthi & Ganesh festival
Last week, I observed that Ganesh festival and Ganesh Chaturthi are written as same article. and Ganesh festival is been redirected to Genesh Chaturthi.

Pls. note that Ganesh festival and Ganesh Chaturthi are seperate things. Ganesh Charturthi is the single day which comes on the 4th day of Bhadrapada month as per Hindu calendar which is been celebrated as Ganesh sthapana in India. This is an improtant day where the pooja is performed at home. The prasad of Modak is offered to Ganesha on that day.

Ganesh festival is festival which lasts for 10/11 days. The festival starts on Ganesh Charturthi and ends on Anant Chaturdashi. This festival is widely celebrated in India and some parts outside India as well. Some poeple celebrate Ganesh festival for 2, 5, 7 or 10 days depending upon the rituals and the area they are staying. There are many programs which are planned and celebrated during Ganesh festival. On the last day i.e. on Anant Chaturdashi, Ganesh idol are immersed in the sea or nearby lakes and rivers. There is a big celebration on that day where there is long q for performing this.

Looking at this background, we must have two seperate articles. If any body has any issue, pls. let me know. You may help me in improving the content in both the articles. Thanks Coolgama (talk) 11:32, 13 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Most books and encyclopaedias have 1 entry on Ganesh Chaturthi and Ganesh festival since the rituals like modak, puja are the same., , . Ganesh Chaturthi is the central day and beginning of Ganesh festival. Having two articles will unnecessary repetition. -- Redtigerxyz  Talk 15:21, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Redtiger, I agree with coolgama that there should be two separate articles. One should be on the domestic / private celebrations and the other on the Public celebrations (Sarvajanik Ganeshotsav) introduced by Lokmanya Tilak in 1890s.Jonathansammy (talk) 16:37, 13 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Jonathansammy, the split you are suggesting is not what coolgama is suggesting. Both Ganesh Chaturthi (1 day) and Ganesh festival (10 days including Ganesh Chaturthi) should have sections on public and private celebrations for comprehensiveness. Redtigerxyz  Talk 16:44, 13 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes, Ganesha Chaturthi technically refers to a particular day in the Hindu calendar, but Ganesha Chaturthi (or Ganesha Chaturthi Festival) is also commonly used to refer to to the multiple-day celebrations that begin on that day. We can tweak the language of the article to make sure that this is clear, but this does not justify content forking since the two festivals are intrinsically linked and discussed together in sources (as Redtigerxyz points out above).
 * For the same reason I don't see how we can split the article along the public/private celebration lines. Since the festival is clearly associated with both an article on Ganesha Chaurthi will necessarily have to discuss both (just as Christmas discusses both the religious and commercial aspects of the celebration; to do otherwise would be POV Splitting). Now, I could imagine a scenario in which we have so much material about the public celebrations started by Tilak, that we split that into its own sub-article as per Summary Style, but (1) even in that case the main Ganesha Chaturthi article would contain discussion of the public celebration, and (2) we are not facing that situation yet! Abecedare (talk) 01:08, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

Hi, I am sorry but this confusion has happened due to less attention paid by people on this topic earlier. India had a rich festival culture and has many important days in Hindu calendar. Let me try to elaborate more.

Ganesh festival is festival which lasts for 11 days. It starts on Ganesh Chaturthi and ends with Anant Chaturdashi. The various days in that are as follows: Bhadrapad Shuddha Chaturthi (4)- Ganesh Chaturthi (Ganesh welcome) Bhadrapad Shuddha Panchami (5)- Rishi Panchami Bhadrapad Shuddha Shashthi (6)- Gauri Aavahan (Gauri welcome) Bhadrapad Shuddha Saptami (7)- Gauri Poojan (Gauri Pooja and lunch) Bhadrapad Shuddha Ashtami (8)- Gauri Gaman (Gauri sending back) Bhadrapad Shuddha Chaturdashi (14)- Anant Chaturdashi - Ganesh immersed in the sea (Ganesha going back) There are 2 parts of this. Celebration at home (domestic / private) and celebration in public. Let me talk more about HOME CELEBRATION (domestic / private) first.

In most parts of India the above specific days 5,6,7 & 8 are celebrated as a part of Ganesh festival and some places separate. Ganesh idol is there at home and still these 4 days are celebrated. There are different cultures and traditions which are followed at home. Some keep Ganesha at home for 1& half day, some keep 3 days, some keep 5 days, some immerse along with Gauri (5 or 6 days depending on actual tithi), some keep 7 days and rest all keeps till 11 days and immerse on Anant Chaturdashi. During those days, daily pooja in the morning and evening is performed in the presence of all family members and Prasad is distributed. The first day “Ganesh Chaturthi” and the last day “Anant Chaturdashi” are the most important days of Ganesh festival. On Ganesh Chaturthi, there is pooja called Pratishthapana is performed in the home which lasts more than 2 hours and been done against the narration of Poojari (priest)

Now let me talk about PUBLIC CELEBRATION for Ganesh festival. Ganesh festival in Public celebration form (Sarvajanik Ganeshotsav) introduced by Lokmanya Tilak in 1890s. This was primarily done to gather people at the common place and get attention of people during British Raj. In Sarvajanik Ganeshotsav, apart from domestic / private Ganesh idol, another (additional) idol is been brought and kept in the public place (specially erected temporary structures mandapas (pandals) in every locality) and Pratishthapana is performed on Ganesh Chaturthi. There is big gathering of people and they make a chain which is called Miravnook to bring Ganesh till pandal on Ganesh Chaturthi. During that time, the various lectures of known personalities, cultural programs, dance festivals are arranged in every locality). On the last day i.e. on Anant Chaturdashi, there is another Miravnook from Pandol till river / sea to immerse Ganesh idol. The Sarvajanik Ganeshotsav was continued even after India got independence and it has taken a big shape during last 110 years. It also drives a major economy in India and we should talk more on that.

Pls. note that every day in Hindu calendar has got immense importance and some rituals are attached to it. We just need to understand and add rightly in the Wikipedia articles. I suggest, we should have below articles on English Wikipedia and we have enough references currently available (since Ganesh festival is currently going on)- 1. Ganesh Chaturthi 2. Anant Chaturdashi 3. Ganesh festival (domestic / private) 4. Ganesh festival (public) - Sarvajanik Ganeshotsav

I request everybody to contribute in making these articles as we need to give right and authentic information to the world as far as Hindu days/ festivals. Appreciate your support in this.

Coolgama (talk) 05:18, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Coolgama, I don't disagree with your description of the various aspects of Ganesha Chaturthi. All this should be included and explained on the Ganesha Chaturthi page. Later on, if the details of any of the sub-topics is unduly lengthy, they can be spun off into separate articles leaving a shorter summary here (see Summary style), but a general reader reader should not have to read multiple articles to understand the basics.
 * I'd encourage you to work on Ganesha Chaturthi page, which currently is pretty poorly written and organized, and add to it the material you mention above (with references, of course!). Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 16:56, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Also see, WP:AVOIDSPLIT. Again to be clear: my suggestion is to develop this page and then create sub-articles (if necessary) instead of fragmenting the topic from the get go. Abecedare (talk) 17:01, 16 September 2013 (UTC)


 * The proposal of 4 articles is odd. Anant Chaturdashi has a distinct identity apart from Ganesha visarjan as a day of Vishnu worship, similarly Rishi Panchami has a distinct identity related to adoration of Hindu sages. Jyestha Gauri (the days not not linked to tithi as suggested to coolgama, to the nakshastra Jyestha appearance) can be split as though it is part of Ganesha festivities in many households, she - when identified with Mahalakshmi rather than Ganesha's mother Parvati - is sometimes worshipped without Ganesha. 1, 3, 4 are all part of 1 festival. Most books call the entire 10-day period as festival of Ganesha Chaturthi, and rarely Ganesha festival. We should follow what RS do. Some RS links are already given above. Redtigerxyz  Talk 17:22, 16 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Referencing from incorrect source has become a common now a days of Wikipedia. So even if I tell the turth no body is going to accept this as I do not have sufficient sourcs in English language. If you want to show the incorrect information to the world its your call but this is not going to help English Wikipedia any further. If somebody is giving the right information, just by showing some referecnes, the truth does not change. I expect wikipediaons to work with right information and not wrong but referecned information. I am closing this topic from my side and will work on some differnet one.... sorry. Coolgama (talk) 05:02, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

Most books cover the Ganesh festival under Ganesha Chaturthi article and do not have two separate articles. Redtigerxyz Talk 15:29, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
 * The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Hinduism: A-M
 * Fasts & Festivals Of India
 * Religious Celebrations: An Encyclopedia of Holidays, Festivals ...
 * Religions of the World: A Comprehensive Encyclopedia of Beliefs and ...
 * Let's Know Festivals of India
 * Festivals Of India
 * History, Religion and Culture of India
 * Using Festivals to Inspire and Engage Young Children: A Month-by-month Guide
 * Lonely Planet

category red link solved
But, I had to do it, on : the infobox of the article. Now the (category link) problem's solved: not a red one. Other categories, I've copied here one of them: It was at not hidden categories, now it's at hidden ones: Category:Holidays and observances by duration (1 or 2 weeks) When I faced this subject, my help was its father category: Holidays and observances by duration --PLA y Grande Covián (talk) 18:08, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
 * It was Category:Holidays and observances by duration (5–7 days,10–12 days)
 * so I wanted to change it for Category:Holidays and observances by duration (1 or 2 weeks)
 * Infobox holiday with missing field
 * other ones: Holidays and observances by frequency (annual) | Moveable holidays (manual dates for 2014) | Articles with Infobox holidays | Infobox holiday (other)

Youtube video as reference
I am unable to add a Youtube Video "https://www.youtube. com/watch?v=1865nzfTI3k" to the article. How to do that? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arka.Islam (talk • contribs) 16:12, 9 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Not sure why you were unable to link to the video. There are restrictions, I believe to linking to shortened URLS, but not on youtube videos in general and I was able to add the link successfully. That said, I don't think the video is useful as a source since it is just a short series of TV news interviews with Muslims celebrating Ganesh Chaturthi in Gujarat, which would count as a primary source and the relevant statement in the article is about Maharashtra and already supported by somewhat better sources. Abecedare (talk) 17:09, 9 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi Sorry for reverting your misplaced comment earlier, I thought you are asking general question about YouTube videos, I didn't know that this youtube link is related to Ganesh Chaturthi, that link is also not working. Anyway, good thing happened is that later you asked question at Teahouse and it has been answered there. According to second reply there we can add YouTube videos to article as source. No problem. -- Human 3015   TALK    18:52, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

Neutrality, accuracy and copy-edit tag.
Could the editor who inserted these tags put their comments/suggestions-for-improvement? A tag without any explanation is hard to address and may be purged after a couple of week in lack of response. --AmritasyaPutra T 05:13, 18 September 2015 (UTC)


 * I've just done a major copy-edit, but will ask for a second look-over, but the copy-edit tag can probably be removed for now. Drcrazy102 (talk) 02:39, 25 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Please go through the "Talk history" for last 2 years which is archived. There are still major issues in the article and really needs work from the basics... Yogee23 (talk) 05:28, 25 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Only "major issues" I could find from the archives are about the article possibly being WP:SPLIT between the "day" and the "week-long festival". Other issues seem to have been solved. If you feel there are other "basics" that need help, could you concisely list them? References need to be added, rewording perhaps needs to occur in certain areas, but I'm not sure what else you refer to. Thanks, Drcrazy102 (talk) 05:52, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Could you mention specifics or give diffs or links? --AmritasyaPutra T 06:53, 25 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Please check this link - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ganesha_Chaturthi/Archive_1#Ganesh_Chaturthi_.26_Ganesh_festival. These are views shared by some user Coolgama for which I agree. It starts with name itself. Splitting is just 1 issue.Yogee23 (talk) 06:27, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

Cleaning strategy

 * Proposal: I propose merging all subsections of states under "Celebrations in India and other countries" into one section as "Celebrations in India". There hardly is anything distinguished discussed in here. Mostly repetitive stuff and unsourced. I thought of proposing it here first because I don't want some hot headed editor to come and revert all edits says how I disrespected feeling of all those Indians in those states and blah blah! §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 07:43, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I see no problem with this, so long as it stays within the bounds of Indian states and does not include other countries as that would obviously be erroneous. Cheers, Drcrazy102 (talk) 09:44, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Done for today. Let others continue. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 10:53, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Could editors please wait a day while I do a copy edit of the recent changes and then provide feedback of said changes (plus c/e)? Some of the changes need to be relinked, others are grammatical or basic info that was removed/changed. Use the  template provided to let me know of impending major changes before I edit please, or while I am editing. I will put up a template letting users know that I am working on the article when I get around to it tomorrow. Cheers, Drcrazy102 (talk) 11:01, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

Undiscussed Name change
I see the name was changed today. For an important subject such as this, the editor should have had the courtesy to discuss it first on the talk page. My quick search on Google scholar showed 72 references using the term Ganesha and more than 500 using the term Ganesh. Given this information I hope editor Anthony_Appleyard self \-reverts. Thanks.Jonathansammy (talk) 15:01, 25 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Don't take it out on . I asked for a technical move to keep the article consistent with its opening sentence and Ganesha. Those two reasons were also the basis for part of a c/e that I performed that changed Ganesh to Ganesha. For now, I fail to see any reason for a revert unless there is some linguistical nuance that I have missed related to the "a" at the end of Ganesha? Also, it seemed uncontentious, hence I was bold and simply asked for a move which doesn't need discussing first unless there is apparent contention. Cheers, Drcrazy102 (talk) 16:44, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
 * There is a linguistic nuance involved. In short, if you think of the transliterating गणेश from Sanskrit, "Ganesha" (or  in IAST) would be the common transliteration, while if you think of the transliterating गणेश from Hindi, "Ganesh" would be more common.
 * OR observation: Most of the scholarly literature on the deity himself uses the former transliteration, but since the festival arose in modern times, many of the popular sources on the festival use the latter. This will be very hard to establish as a fact though, since Ganesh is a very common male name nowadays and any search data will be contaminated by references to persons with that name. Under these circumstances, personally, I am fine with just using Ganesha for internal consistency on wikipedia, and hope that this will not become an issue. Both the spellings are acceptable, and it would be best to use the scarce and precious editor time to improve article content instead. Abecedare (talk) 17:20, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Something new learnt everyday I suppose, thank you for the response but *tsk, tsk* OR? Surely you wouldn't?
 * To be honest, I wasn't sure if it was transalation from Hindi or Sanskrit scripts into the Latin script and based on the opinion of translators, or if there was something about the meaning behind the word changing with the inclusion (or not) of the "a". Just did a Google Book search with terms . Ganesha Chaturthi has 1,150, while Ganesh does have 3580 results, and yes Google Scholar returns 72 results to 552 results. Not much basis for a "common name" argument since the amounts are small (though still plausible); but with a redirect in place, I still personally feel internal consistency is an important aspect of articles with contested spellings of names, events, et cetera, especially when the article on Ganesha spells his name with an "a" and the opening sentence spells the event with an "a". That said though, I won't oppose any move-revert if it is that important. Cheers, Drcrazy102 (talk) 02:53, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

Thank you Drcrazy for your understanding. Your message, however, leads to the broader question as to what is the acceptable spelling for Indian names. In Maharashtra, Ganesh or Shankar are spellings used for these two Gods but in the South and other places the extra "a" may be added. I would recommend waiting for a few more days to get more comments on the topic. Then we can take appropriate action based on consensus. Thanks.Jonathansammy (talk) 17:46, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
 * For the English Wikipedia, I feel we should use a consistent spelling that people who know English (but not necessarily Indian/Hindi/Sanskrit/etc.) will be able to follow and understand. I won't deny my ignorance of the linguistic nuances of Ganesh/Ganesha as is seemingly arguing below, but I am happy to let the issue lie. Cheers, Drcrazy102 (talk) 06:06, 1 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Here we are not discussing article Ganesha, here article name is "Ganesh Chaturthi". "Chaturthi" is not English word. So when we are using "Marathi" word in article name then there should be some grammatical improvement in name. "Ganesha" is right but "Ganesha Chaturthi" is not right. Reliable English sources like Times of India, NDTV, Indian Express, IBN, India Today, Wall Street Journal, BBC etc are also using "Ganesh Chaturthi". So I'm restoring earlier name of the article, and it will be better if people move article names after discussion. If anyone has problem with name "Ganesh Chaturthi" then RM discussion should be started. -- Human 3015   TALK   05:07, 1 October 2015 (UTC)


 * I have no idea what you mean when you say "when we are using "Marathi" word in article name then there should be some grammatical improvement in name", but I am not arguing the point of the name change, though it would have been appreciated if you had put in a comment within the last 4 days before deciding that internal consistency should be forsaken. Also, you forget the rest of the "a"'s in the article. I'll fix them now for you. Cheers, Drcrazy102 (talk) 06:06, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
 * "Ganesha Festival" is right but "Ganesha Chaturthi" is not. This India Today article can be a classic example. They are using both "Ganesh" and "Ganesha" in the article and not maintaining "internal consistency" within their article. They are using word "Ganesh" while writing "Ganesh Chaturthi" but using "Ganesha" while mentioning "Lord Ganesha". But we can't say that India Today is not maintaining consistency within their article, they are just writing it properly. I will also not argue much on this issue. We can discuss it on RM discussion in detail if needed. Cheers. -- Human 3015   TALK    06:39, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

Proposed merge of Eco-friendly Ganesh idols to Ganesh Chaturthi
The Eco-friendly murtis article is not really notable, in and of itself but would be a good addition to this article (Ganesh Chaturthi) in my own opinion. Should we merge it? Cheers, Drcrazy102 (talk) 01:40, 11 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Oppose:This is a separate and important topic which calls for separate article. There are millions and millions Ganesh Idols are which does not get dissolved in water every year which make a huge environment impact in India. More research and work is going on this. We need to keep this separate and enhance. Yogee23 (talk) 04:41, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
 * It reads almost as a promotional article for the organisations that make these types of idols. The content is good but wording and "seperate"-ness are not quite there IMO. Cheers, Drcrazy102 (talk) 05:08, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
 * The organisations promote eco friendly idols are concerned about the environment and does not need their own promotion. Environment pollution is a worldwide issue including India and we all should be concerned about this. Some body can re write the article and improve. That does not mean it should be deleted/merged. Yogee23 (talk) 08:27, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is not for correcting the wrongs happening in the world. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 09:35, 13 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Support merger. Also, after removing all OR and non-RS based stuff there would be little content left to merge. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 08:21, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Support Merge A separate article is not needed for what should be a small section in the overall article.  Scr ★ pIron IV 14:17, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Support merger. Does not deserves a very own article as the same (the concept) duplicates with Environment impact of the parent article. -- ♪Karthik♫ ♪Nadar♫ 08:37, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

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Separate articles required
As I see there is only 1 article on Ganesh festival whereas I agree to Coolgama that there are different days of celebration and there is festival of 11 days. Please find the link attached for importance of each day.....


 * 1) Bhadrapad Shuddha Chaturthi (4)- Ganesh Chaturthi (Ganesh welcome)
 * 2) Bhadrapad Shuddha Panchami (5)- Rishi Panchami
 * 3) Bhadrapad Shuddha Shashthi (6)- Gauri Aavahan (Gauri welcome)
 * 4) Bhadrapad Shuddha Saptami (7)- Gauri Poojan (Gauri Pooja and lunch)
 * 5) Bhadrapad Shuddha Ashtami (8)- Gauri Gaman (Gauri sending back)
 * 6) Horoscope Matching (9)- Daily Horoscope  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.248.40.218 (talk) 08:22, 4 August 2017 (UTC)
 * 7) Bhadrapad Shuddha Chaturdashi (14)- Anant Chaturdashi - Ganesh immersed in the sea (Ganesha going back)
 * 8) Ganesh Festival - Period between Ganesh Chaturthi and Anant Chaturdashi
 * 9) Sarvajanik Ganeshotsav - The Ganesh festival is a public festival and celebrated on road and started by Tilak started in the year 1893.

I think, English Wikipedia has sadly mistaken on this and need to correct this on priority. The experts on Wikipedia may show the references of book and encyclopedia. But we should also honor what is mentioned in the Hindu calendar, Hindu Panchang and Hindu Mythology. We should also respect what 125 Crores of Indians follow. We should not get dragged just on the references. We should respect to the views of Indian people also.

In short, we need to have separate article of all the above days. Yogee23 (talk) 09:22, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

Discussion
Oppose at the moment. The current article is a poorly sourced, poorly written, and poorly organized mess. Creating upto 11 more stubby or bloated articles is not the way to go. Instead I'd suggest that the current article be cleaned up and reliably sourced information be added about the rituals and celebrations for the individual days of the festival. If at some point there is more sourced and encyclopedic content than can be covered in a single article then a page split can be considered. We are far from that. Also note that none of the websites listed in the RFC above would qualify as reliable sources. Abecedare (talk) 14:31, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

Oppose at the moment vide Abecedare. Without disputing the fact that Ganesh Chaturthi celebrations encompass a number of events, I recommend a cleanup and improvement of the mother article. AshLin (talk) 13:22, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

Oppose per Abecedare and AshLin. More important things should be dealt with first Aparslet (talk) 10:52, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Oppose for now I agree that when the article gets big enough is when we should split it. For now, having a section in this article for each of the days would be enough. Louieoddie (talk) 07:29, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Start small and expand only when references are found Several of these festival days don't have a redirect to the main Ganesh festival article. Creating these redirects and making sure that each day's celebration is named and described briefly in the main article would be a start. Individual articles can then be started as drafts (or moved to draft if they exist with no reliable sources); each would be moved to mainspace to replace the redirect only when sufficient reliable sources are found. If 125 Crores of Indians find this festival important, there are sure to be writers among them who have written reports in published newspapers, magazines or books about the activities on each day of the festival; the references don't have to be in English.&mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 01:46, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

Origins
The section titled origins [] seems to be on origins of Ganesh, the deity rather than the festival.Is this content necessary in this article? Should it be moved to the article on Ganesha. Please comment.Thanks.Jonathansammy (talk) 16:43, 14 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Ganesh Chaturthi is linked to Ganesh, the section provides context and background to the history section that follows. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 22:04, 14 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I believe the content can be cut down significantly and the reader directed to the page on Ganesh.ThanksJonathansammy (talk) 22:13, 14 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Trimmed it. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 22:33, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

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Public Ganesh festival (Sarvajanik Ganeshotsav) and Public Durga puja (Sarbajanin Durga puja)
Is there a historical connection between these two festivals? Which of the two preceded the other ? Were nationalist leaders like Tilak at all involved in shaping the public Durga festival ? According to Xenia Zeiler, the public Durga festival in its current form started in 1911 which is well after the 1890s origin of public Ganeshotsav in Maharashtra. .It would be good to find out if there are other sources talking about direct link.Thanks.Jonathansammy (talk) 15:16, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

1994 plague
Greetings! Regarding this revert, no, that link wasn't a mistake. The 1994 plague in India apparently experienced a superspreading event at a Ganesh Chaturthi festival in Surat. -- Beland (talk) 21:28, 1 July 2020 (UTC)t
 * Got it. It seemed like an odd connection. Apologies. --regentspark (comment) 21:30, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

Dates of festival
I wish someone would add a paragraph on the date of the festival, or how the date can be predicted on the occidental calendar. Sussmanbern (talk) 16:20, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

Confusing
This page is confusing and hard to understand.161.8.195.186 (talk) 03:20, 10 September 2021 (UTC)