Talk:Gasoline and diesel usage and pricing/Archives/2012

Vandalism
This articals facts were vandalized under gass price modifiers, someone has messed with the numbers by adding more didgits. Can someone correct the facts? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.172.80.4 (talk) 16:29, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

There's still something wrong there. "not"s seem to have been inserted everywhere... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.19.114.133 (talk) 16:19, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Converter faux data
Just updated the prices for Hungary, and the converter is for sure wrong. It says that the local fuel price converted to USD/US gallon would be 5.00, but in actuality it's more around 6.80-7.00 ... Someone who is more knowledgeable of Wikipedia than I am check please? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.133.132.149 (talk) 11:08, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Agree. Even i am not sure how to do this. But i have updated the Price in USD to 1.58. Some knowledgible persons Please correct this. -- Sunil —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sunilkumartk (talk • contribs) 05:02, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Average gasoline prices around the world
1. correction Iran The CNN Money link states Iran feul price is US0.33per gallon.

2. Addition Brunei Could someone please add Brunei feul prices to the list of current prices. It adds to the the SE Asian list. I quote the IHT http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/05/26/business/AS-FIN-Brunei-Fuel-Prices.php "Energy Minister Awang Yahya said that subsidies in 2004 totaled 50 million Brunei dollars, but the figure has since skyrocketed as Brunei maintained retail gasoline prices at 53 Brunei cents (US$0.40; €0.25) per liter, or 2 Brunei dollars (US$1.51; €1) per gallon, despite soaring global prices." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.54.214.54 (talk) 01:12, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Lack of discussion
Wow. The lack of discussion on Gas Prices is surprising. This page has been faithfully and objectively updated, but is lacking in a longer history on prices and consumption rates, either per person or combined countrywide.

Also, a discussion of causes in price fluctuations in the US, from the start to today, including the following major events:
 * The introduction motor cars (increase in demand)
 * The consolidation of gas companies (reduction in competition)
 * The breakup of Standard Oil (return of competition)
 * The rationing of WWII (increase in demand, black market coupons)
 * The method of delivery to customers through branded stations (reduction in competition)
 * The creation of suburbs (increase in car ownership, increase in usage, increase in demand)
 * The rise of the Middle East powers (increase in foreign dependency)
 * The creation of OPEC (increase in costs, reduction of competition)
 * The "Gas Crisis" of the 1970s (shortages leading to cost increases)
 * The multiple mergers of oil companies and multinationals (reduced competition)
 * The politicization of gasoline (removal of lead, different formulas for environmetal guidelines, lack of new refineries, ANWR and the Florida coast drilling, "No Blood for Oil", Iran hostage crisis, conspiracy theories)

I am guessing that some of this already exists in the pages of other Wikipedia articles, but this would be a good central point for all of this. I know, be bold, but I usually defer to the regular creators of a page before jumping in. After all, there might already be a page called "History of Gas Prices" or something like that which I am unaware of. CodeCarpenter 21:03, 11 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I noticed that a large section on pricing at the pump had been deleted from the filling station article in January without discussion. I've reinstated it there, with a note on the talk page, but this article might be a better place for it. --Tysto 17:40, 16 May 2007 (UTC)


 * More to the first editor's point:

It would be interesting to see a discussion these additional pricing-related topics: 1. How in the US retail per-gallon prices are universally expressed in cents plus hundreds of cents. How did this get started? Why does it persist, as a lone example of pricing weirdness? 2. How filling station owners set the price of gasoline daily. Specifically, (a) what inputs are they using to tell them that overnight (or in the middle of the day) the retail price of gasoline should/could move up? In changing prices they often seem to be responding to events far beyond the local market for gasoline, e.g., you'll hear that gas prices rose on a given day because of "concerns" about potential supply disruptions in the Middle East (or am I misinterpreting things here -- is it just the price of oil that's affected?). OK, but how does my local gas station owner know how to react to that, by raising the price three cents, say, versus ten cents? Do the oil wholesalers, for instance, supply price data down to the local level? (b) If gas station owners are buying gasoline in large quantities (think of the big tankers) at wholesale, do they ever lose money because they paid $X/gal expecting to sell for $X-plus-something/gal when subsequent supply/demand dynamics push the retail price down to $X-MINUS/gal? Or do they have ways of protecting themselves against this sort of thing? This seems like a huge risk. McTavidge (talk) 04:12, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Opening Paragraph
shouldnt "...amounting to 44% of the total U.S. consumption of petroleum products." be "...amounting to 44% of the total world consumption of petroleum products."

? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.162.204.52  (talk • contribs).


 * No. The 44% is the fraction of U.S. petroleum consumption that goes to gasoline (as opposed to fuel oil or diesel fuel).  This is the ratio of the U.S. consumption of gasoline, 3.3 billion barrels / year (531 billion liters/ year)  to the total U.S. consumption of petrol products, 7.6 billion barrels/year (1.21  trillion liters/year).  EIA data for 2005
 * The fraction you're thinking of is the ratio of the total U.S. consumption of all petroleum products (1.21 trillion liters / year) to the world production of petroleum, which is 84.21 million barrels / day (4.89 trillion liters / year). This ratio, the U.S. share consumption of all petroleum products, is 25%. Whosasking 16:53, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Price variability
I have moved the following text from Gasoline usage and pricing to Talk:Gasoline usage and pricing because it appears to be missing assumptions that would give it logical sense. One assumption could be that taxes outside the US have a flat component but the text does not state this. It needs rewriting, with sources, to make meaningful sense. For example if gasoline costs one dollar per gallon in the US with zero taxes and one dollar in the UK with 100 % taxes (so costing 2 dollars to the consumer), other costs being the same, then an increase in oil cost of 50% makes gasoline cost 1.50 in the US and 3.00 in the UK. In both countries the consumer price has increased by 50%, and there is no difference in percentage variability. Maybe "greater" should be replaced by "the same", or the percentage clause just removed? The absolute variability being less would be true, but to me seems unimportant as taxes always increase the absolute costs, and therefore the variability, to the consumer. It seems to reduce to "Increased taxes cause reduced retail price variability in absolute terms." Is this worth explaining here?


 * "Because a greater proportion of the price of gasoline in the United States is due to the cost of oil, rather than taxes, the price of the retail product is subject to greater fluctuations (vs. outside the U.S.) when calculated as a percentage of cost-per-unit, but is actually less variable in absolute terms)."

-Wikianon 11:50, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * But, continuing your example, the UK government could reduce the tax to limit the increase in cost to the consumer. (consider: the US price goes from $1 -> $2, a 100% increase. The UK price would have gone from $2 -> $4 (100% increase), but the 100% tax was cut to 50%, so it went from $2 -> $3 (50% increase).
 * This year, the UK government had planned to increase the fuel tax in April, but instead decided to delay the increase until October. Haulage companies are complaining that the tax shouldn't be increased at all, but their main complaint seems to be that foreign lorries (via the English Channel on ferries or trains) bring a full tank of cheap fuel with them to reduce their costs, which the UK companies can't compete with. As the £ continues to fall against the € their argument weakens. [] -- I notice that several western European countries are now more expensive than the UK, according to the article.ƕ (talk) 17:04, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

It's a weak argument anyway. Yes, a French haulier could cross the channel and do a pickup or delivery in the UK, filling up with cheaper diesel before leaving France. But, he still has to travel from wherever he is based in France over to the UK, and then come all the way back to France, all of which will use up fuel. And, of course, there is the cost of actually using the ferry or shuttle or whatever he uses. There are specific hypothetical cases where a French haulier could potentially have a cost advantage over a UK one using this method - a haulier based very near to Calais picking up or delivering somewhere not far from Dover would have the best advantage. But in practise I don't believe it really happens. I've been in industry for about 20 years and I don't personally recall instances where we have been quoted more attractive rates by French hauliers than by UK ones - except in cases where the delivery or the collection actually has to be made in France..... StanPomeray (talk) 11:47, 22 December 2008 (UTC)


 * What will happen in the future if there is a real shortage on oil production? At present with the high prices, people curse, but still drive to work and other places and heat their homes with oil (in the winter). The price can get extremely high before people really lower their demand. What do think is the price 20 years from now? --BIL (talk) 21:54, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

the economy was being tested with the price of gas. states that were hard hit in 1997 were california and new york and alaska the price of gasoline was in the 2.00 range. As for all other states florida for example the price was at 1.45. greed came into afect in the states of CA and NY for gasoline drivers. On the other hand the cost of deisel was at 1.60 when gas prices hiked up nickel by weekly averaging well over 2.25 almost 30 dollars to fill a gas tank in NY and CA. In 2001 the government felt hey NY and CA can handle it lets hike the price up to the rest of the 48 states. And you saw that 2.00 hit everyones pocket for a gallon of gas in FL. ANd the the cost of deisel still fell cheaper to purchase at 1.60 a gallon. so do the math its greed and price gauging. we cant be out of gasoline reserves when they are still selling 1989 gasoline and refining 2011 gasoline. The world is full of oil reserves someones being greedy and we need to find out who to point the finger too before it gets out of control.

Wondering if information on pump discrepancy fits here
Potentially useful citation for your consideration: --User:Ceyockey ( talk to me ) 12:44, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Korea
This article has no numbers for either country on the Korean Peninsula. This is a conspicuous absence considering which nearby countries are listed. What's going on?Youdontsmellbad (talk) 00:04, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I added them for you. There are lots of countries missing.  There's a document listed that gives prices for 171 countries in 11/2006.  If you see a glaring omission, feel free to add it.  Also, if you know someone in Korea, or who can find the right website, feel free to update the Korea prices to 2008.  NJGW (talk) 03:00, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * TEAMWORK!Youdontsmellbad (talk) 10:30, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

European Fuel Taxation
This page should have the European Union nations, Middle East states categorized by region since there is a price differentiation... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.196.138.68 (talk) 21:12, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Longer Term Price Adjusted for Inflation
Some longer term history of the price of gas over history adjusted for inflation would be more useful. For instance gas was regullary $3.15+ in 2008 dollars back in the early 1980's. A little perspective is always nice. An example chart of more longer term data is shown here: http://inflationdata.com/inflation/images/charts/Oil/Gasoline_inflation_chart.htm

A wiki-usable image would be nice to include in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.130.174.146 (talk) 03:04, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Usage data only given for US
The title of the page is "Gasoline Usage and Pricing" and extensive global data is given on pricing, but usage data is only given for the US, other than anecdotal information. Shouldn't more usage data for other countries be given to make it comparable in content to the pricing data? Or should this page be split into two separate pages, one on pricing and one on usage? Dru007 (talk) 03:25, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Units
According to the GTZ document referenced in the article, fuel is sold in: I've changed the table to have $/litre first, and added automatic conversions to $/US-gallon for every country listed. Hopefully this will be easier to maintain than everyone having to convert currencies and volumes! ƕ (talk) 16:09, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
 * US Gallons in Belize, Columbia, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Grenada, Guatemala, Haiti, Honduras, Liberia, Myanmar, Nicaragua, Panama, Peru, Puerto Rico, Sierra Leone, USA
 * Imperial Gallons in Antigua and Barbuda, Guyana, United Arab Emirates
 * Litres in 151 other countries.
 * So the second column is in US Gallons? I think we should put a note of what gallon it is, and perhaps an Imperial Gallon column if it's not too difficult so that everyone can have it in their own units.  koolman2 (talk) 21:47, 28 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Technically, $/kg would be the most accurate since the volume changes significantly (meant literally) with temperature. 24.7.178.142 (talk) 02:58, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Gasoline doesn't mention it, but the volumetric CTE appears to be 950&times;10-6/K (none of those cites are authoritative, alas), which is very close to 0.001/K. Which means a change in temperature of 10C (18F) is a change in volume of 0.01 or 1%. That's the equivalent of about four cents a gallon with $4/gal gas. It seems like gas stations would be in their rights to correct for this so that you effectively buy by weight. —Ben FrantzDale (talk) 10:56, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Following the money with rising pump prices
I gather from various news sources that individual gas stations aren't the ones getting rich off of the present high prices. So who is? What does the supply chain look like and what is a typical cut at each step along the way? It arrives at gas stations on tank trucks that drove from... where? —Ben FrantzDale (talk) 04:10, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It is the world market price for crude (raw) oil that increases. So I assume it is the producers of crude oil, the owners of the oil sources, that get rich. Not really the gas station owners, maybe it varies, but where I am from they have a fixed margin of about 0.10 € per litre. --BIL (talk) 17:16, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

I used to work for BP, and I know the detailed cost breakdowns for unleaded petrol (in the UK at least, and as it was about 6 years ago, although I don't think it has changed much now). The delivered margin made by the refinery on a forecourt sale of unleaded fuel at that time was a little under 7%, in other words, for every pound spent at the pump, BP got just under 7p. Oil companies do not get rich from selling petrol - they make more money from selling the exploration and extraction rights and technologies (to other oil companies), and by selling specialist lubricants and process oils into industry. You ask who is getting rich from selling petrol - in Europe the answer is governments. The tax levels on fuels are so high that the exchequer makes more per litre of fuel sold than the rest of the supply chain put together. StanPomeray (talk) 11:36, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

moved United States gasoline price images
I've moved these two US gasoline price images from Price of petroleum to Gasoline and diesel usage and pricing because that article deals with petroleum and not petroleum derivative prices. However the two images look like they go together and could be used here, maybe to illustrate the impact of Petroleum prices on a typical derivative? -84user (talk) 16:40, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Suggestion
Someone has done a super great job on this webpage "Gasoline and diesel usage and pricing." If there was some way to get whoever did this page to include the gas taxes in the "Average gasoline prices around the world" that would be even greater. This information is really timely and people need to be able to look at a schedule like this and know that nearly all people the world over are paying about the same price for the gasoline itself less the taxes except in a few cases where gasoline is supposedly being heavily subsidized.

Thank you for considering my suggestion.

Jim


 * I think you're suggesting something like this:


 * It's not simple to calculate. For instance, the UK imposes a fuel duty of £0.5035 per litre on normal petrol, and 17.5% VAT on the retail price. The average consumer price on 2008-06-30 was £1.18845 per litre. Take off the VAT: £1.18845÷1.175 = £1.01145. Subtracting the fuel duty gives £0.50795 per litre (so that's the cost of the petrol, plus the delivery costs, plus the costs and profit added by the retailer). So, 57.3% of the consumer price is tax.
 * If the price goes up to £1.20/l next month (and the fuel duty and VAT rate stay the same), the amount of tax will change to 56.9%.
 * There is good data on the price and taxes for the EU |here, but adding this information will make the page harder to maintain. ƕ (talk) 11:22, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Can we ditch the current price table?
This type of table is not what Wikipedia is about, is not updated in a way which gives readers a good comparison of prices, and attracts hard to detect vandalism. There are several webpages already linked to from this page that do a better job. I think we should ditch current prices and have instead a table which says how much users in various countries pay in taxes or save in subsidies (a percentage is not a good idea because when the base price shifts the percentage shifts with it). That type of information is much more informative, less static, and actually encyclopedic. Comments? NJGW (talk) 20:45, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Agreed.--Roentgenium111 (talk) 21:49, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Disagree. The external links are Mickey Mouse, with the data in all sorts of awkward or in some cases inaccessible formats. For example, I can't even see the map on this page. Other external links hide the data in god-awful PDFs. If Wikipedia is not about making the sum of crappily-formatted human knowledge actually accessible to humans, why bother to write it? Wikipedia is the place where we can correct the ergonomic errors of the world's incompetent Web designers. I.e., Wikipedia can be the one place on the Web that does not suck. --Teratornis (talk) 19:33, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

A comment that had no heading
Something is wrong with the average price historical for the United States. I know I paid in excess of $4.00/gallon that summer the war in Iraq started. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.161.6.139 (talk) 05:11, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Another comment that had no heading
Can anyone fix the formatting problem with the current table (Zambia entry contains end of page headings and content)? I've tried but MediaWiki seems not to like closing the table with pipe+bracket. Phlash909 (talk) 12:59, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Copyright problem
This article has been revised as part of a large-scale clean-up project of multiple article copyright infringement. Earlier text must not be restored, unless it can be verified to be free of infringement. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions must be deleted. Contributors may use sources as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously. --Mkativerata (talk) 23:28, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

'Gas price' US/UK English issue etc
I just searched wikipedia for "gas price", and got this article by redirect. I expected Natural gas prices. I added a "for ... see ...", but I think it's ugly. If a person finds this article by searching or following links for Gasoline, it's also going to look irrelevant. Given that Gas is a generic term for a non-liquid fluid, and that many gases are commodities in themselves, wouldn't a separate disambiguation page be better? SeanCollins (talk) 06:14, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Futures
Would any of the veterans of this article or this knowledge area (futures, commodities, oil, etc) care to add information to this article about futures? (If not, I may eventually find the time, but don't count on it.) JonathanFreed (talk) 16:44, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Am I adding too much?
I probably am. A lot of this detail isn't going to matter in the long term. Vchimpanzee ·  talk  ·  contributions  · 17:11, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
 * This article might not be the right place for some of the detail regarding the ups and downs of the oil price. Could you consider 2003 to 2011 world oil market chronology instead?  Gfcvoice (talk) 04:31, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll work on that. What's the best way to do the U.S. section, then? Vchimpanzee ·  talk  ·  contributions  · 15:13, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks Vchimpanzee, I think you've done a great job with your edits. I'm not quite sure of what you are asking, but I'll do my best to answer. My understanding of the differences between this article, and the "2003 to 2011 world oil market chronology" is as follows


 * This article is about the general background of gasoline costs (such as government taxes and subsidies) and usage (how much different countries use). Whereas the "chronology" article is the best place for discussions regarding the ups and downs of oil prices and gasoline prices.  As you are aware, the price of gasoline follows the price of crude oil very closely, so it follows that the factors driving the price of crude oil will also drive the price of gasoline "at the pump".  Gfcvoice (talk) 03:06, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I found something that actually belonged here. The average for the entire year 2011 is the highest ever. That should probably be updated at year end, but it is a milestone already. Plus I found a comparison of the highest and lowest priced states with the national average.


 * The other article looks strange right now. I haven't found an explanation of the jump in gas prices during August and September but that should really be covered. Vchimpanzee ·  talk  ·  contributions  · 19:39, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

Average international prices
A lot of work has gone into this table but as both petrol prices and currencies are highly variable over time in many countries it does not give a good basis for comparing prices. The range of spot prices is spread over 2,5 years and the prices are given in local currency rather than one of the international standard currencies. I believe it should be replaced with a reference to the very illuminating graphic at http://www.staveleyhead.co.uk/utilities/petrol-prices/. Any comments? Porturology (talk) 12:02, 8 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Prices are given in $/l and $/gallon plus in the local currency. I think dollars can still be considered a standard enough currency for this use. --Dwerg85 (talk) 15:59, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Diesel and gasoline vs biobutanol/bioethanol/biomethanol and vegetable oil
Perhaps the price of gasoline can be briefly compared to biobutanol (replacement fuel) or another alcohol (requiring engine modification) as bioethanol or biomethanol ? In addition, perhaps we can compare the price of petroDiesel with vegetable oil (the last is generally 1,4 euro vs 0,6 euro (on average)). Link to vegetable oil economy for the latter. 91.182.37.177 (talk) 08:41, 7 September 2012 (UTC)