Talk:Gay teen fiction

Untitled
I removed the info about "Heather Has Two Mommies" since it apparently wasn't aimed towards young adults (small children, maybe, but not young adults). Perhaps that info should be added to a new article about glbt-themed children's books. 151.203.178.253 20:27, 15 July 2006 (UTC)John1728

Cleanup and sourcing needed
There are several problems with this (very important) article. First, I agree with the person who noted that Heather Has Two Mommies is NOT "young adult literature." While I can see mentioning it in the article if an editor has a source for connecting it to a general increase in acceptance in GLBT themes in literature for younger readers, it shouldn't be leading off the article now that someone has put it back. We need a more general lead section.

Second, someone (it's too late at night for me to sort out the history, sorry) appears to have relied heavily on the sources listed at the end in External Links, but only listed them at the end as links, rather than tying each to the items that were drawn from it. I started trying to fix that with the USA Today source, but undoing the damage is going to take a while. My ability to fix the problem is limited by my very rudimentary knowledge of Wikipedia footnoting methodology. I know how to use the tags from cite.php, but if the same source is referenced more than once in the article (which I can already tell will be the case), my way is going to get unreadable, fast.

Third, in a related matter, some of the sources have been misread. Being very familiar with Seventeenth Summer, I wondered how I would have missed its being the first gay young-adult novel, as this article claimed when I first got here. Doing a Google search for the title and "gay or lesbian" quickly showed that the USA Today article mentioned SS as the first YOUNG ADULT novel, in a paragraph about GLBT literature for the YA market, then was misread by the person using the source. This has been fixed now, but the article needs pretty thorough editing and cleanup.

Fourth, above and beyond the flaws already mentioned, the article doesn't work well (yet) as an encyclopedia introduction to the topic. Award-winning titles such as Kerr's Deliver Us From Evie are as yet unmentioned, for example. Much of the content seems to have been patchworked together from three general articles on the subject from print media and online sites.

I'm a total novice on this topic, having read only two novels in the category and being a fan of M. E. Kerr. Someone more knowledgeable should tackle creating a better overview, but in the meantime, I'll try and "sweat the small stuff" as time permits. Lawikitejana 05:09, 17 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree; this article needs serious work. Since I'm working on the article lesbian teen fiction currently, I'll try to help clean this one up at the same time. — Emiellaiendiay 03:53, 27 February 2007 (UTC)


 * The references to "Seventeenth Summer", "Outsiders" and "Chocolate War" are unclear. As is, this entire section misleads readers in believing that this is a history of gay literature.  Send readers to the Young Adult Literature page.  Darlingtom 18:04, 10 April 2007 (UTC)darlingtom

Scope
How are we defining "gay"? Is it just homosexuality, both male and female? I see two possibilities:


 * Male counterpart to Lesbian teen fiction. Covers only books about gay and bisexual males
 * Overall article that covers both gay and bisexual males and females. Overlaps with Lesbian teen fiction

Any thoughts?

— Emiellaiendiay 06:32, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I think if we're going to have two articles, then this one should cover males and Lesbian teen fiction should cover females- and we should standardize the titles somehow, and make sure the 'gay' article has a clear redirect to the lesbian article. If we decide to use this one to cover both male and female characters, then we should just delete Lesbian teen fiction and merge its contents here- but that might make for an overlong article.  For whatever my two cents' worth is... er... worth. -FisherQueen (Talk) 13:25, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree. I'll start implementing the changes, if no one objects. — Emiellaiendiay 06:49, 1 March 2007 (UTC)


 * This is where any reader would first go, and as such it should be an umbrella gay, as in both male and female. Not all readers are looking for one or another.  Other pages on lesbian fiction, gay male, bisexual, etc. could go more indepth.  Those who helped found and build this genre, though, bridge both  male and female specific topics.Darlingtom 18:15, 10 April 2007 (UTC)darlingtom

Name
I think we ought to discuss renaming the article.

Choices:


 * Keep as Gay young adult novels
 * Change to Gay young adult fiction and adjust Lesbian teen fiction accordingly
 * Change to Gay teen fiction to be consistent with Lesbian teen fiction

Any thoughts? — Emiellaiendiay 06:54, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I am opposed to Gay young adult novels, because it eliminates the good literature that isn't novels- I love Am I Blue?, which is a collection of short stories. I'm leaning toward Gay teen fiction and Lesbian teen fiction, which will be consistent and clear. Just my opinion, feel free to ignore it. -FisherQueen (Talk) 12:13, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Literature is a word often used, as it includes memoir, anthologies, fiction and anything that is well written or important. Also, it respects the art of capturing the topic. Darlingtom 18:16, 10 April 2007 (UTC)darlingtom

Fair use rationale for Image:Boy Meets Boy.jpg
Image:Boy Meets Boy.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 18:07, 1 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Would someone please create an image that is not strictly a book cover to illustrate this page? Although it wouldn't have to be exactly the same kind, see Lesbian teen fiction for an example. — Emiellaiendiay 22:17, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Luna.
I removed Luna from the list of books. Luna is not about a gay male teen, it is about a transgendered girl. Therefore, it does NOT belong in this list. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.78.166.191 (talk) 04:38, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Mr and Mrs Bo Jo Jones
Why is this book listed in an article about Gay male teen fiction? Its a book about a 17 year old boy and 16 year old girl who get married because she is pregnant. There are no gay teens even in it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.77.127.106 (talk) 17:18, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071018051939/http://dir.salon.com:80/story/mwt/feature/2003/11/11/queer_lit/index.html to http://dir.salon.com/story/mwt/feature/2003/11/11/queer_lit/index.html

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Moved page
I'd initially started this as a move request but the more I looked at this, the more it seemed that this would be a non-controversial move. The page is very generally about gay and lesbian teen fiction and its sourcing reflects that. The page starts with calling it gay teen fiction as well. I'm titling this as LGBT teen fiction because I know that there are other works out there aimed at teens that cover the other facets of the LGBT community and having a more general page makes it easier to include them on the page, whereas an article that is titled gay teen fiction may make others feel that it wouldn't encompass say, transgender or ace teen fiction, and lead them to create a page that may not have enough sourcing to exist on its own. Here's a rundown of the sourcing in the article - all of it either deals with both lesbian and gay male teen fiction or in the case of the source backing up a quote, isn't accessible to show how the quote itself fits into gay male, lesbian, or general LGBT teen fiction as a whole.


 * "Young Adult Novels with Gay/Lesbian Characters and Themes 1969-92: A Historical Reading of Content, Gender, and Narrative Distance."
 * "The Treatment of Gay and Lesbian Fiction for Young Adults in Selected Prominent Reviewing Media."
 * "Queer lit for the gay teen" - discusses lesbian as well as gay male teen fiction
 * "Interview with Brent Hartinger, Author of Geography Club" - the book features both lesbian and gay male characters, as well as a bisexual female character
 * “Outside Looking In: Representations of Gay and Lesbian Experiences in the Young Adult Novel.”
 * "Whiter Gay Literature?" I can't access this, but it's used to back up a quote about children's books, which is out of scope for the article. (And mentions the book Heather Has Two Mommies) It doesn't mention gay male teen fiction or LGBT teen fiction at all in the quote. The only tie is to Alyson Books, which is given a lot of weight in the section without showing how it specifically ties in to gay male teen fiction. (On an aside, the article really needs cleanup)
 * "Books give honest portrayal of growing up gay" Mentions lesbian teen fiction as well as gay male teen fiction
 * “Gay and Lesbian Fiction for Young Adults: A Survey of Holdings in Canadian Public Libraries.”

On a side note, I do think that this article does need some general cleanup for issues like the quote - some of it needs to more clearly show how it ties into LGBT teen fiction. Also, the list pages need work as well to be more clear. For example, the list of gay male teen fiction doesn't whether these lists are meant to signify books that are written for gay male teens or feature a main protagonist who is a gay male teen - either would be fine, although the latter would be easier to prove. Most LGBT teen fiction works tend to be written for a fairly general audience or at least widely publicized as such. My thought is to retitle the page as "List of fiction featuring gay male teen protagonists", but that's something that should take a lower priority to fixing up this article since it's the main landing spot for people and I think has potential to be made into a GA. ReaderofthePack (｡◕‿◕｡)  19:42, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I've moved this back - it's better to have a discussion and play it safe with LGBT topics than to move and cause a kerfuffle. ReaderofthePack (｡◕‿◕｡)  19:44, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 11 May 2018

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: Not moved TonyBallioni (talk) 21:23, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

Gay male teen fiction → LGBT teen fiction – Per my arguments above, the article is very generally about gay and lesbian teen fiction. It's pretty much devoted to gay male teen fiction in page title only, as all but one of the sources mentions lesbian teens in fiction as well as gay male teens - several of the books feature lesbian and bisexual female teen characters as well as gay male teens. The only source that I don't mark as mentioning lesbian teens is one I can't access and that one is used to back up a quote that doesn't mention any type of teen fiction at all - although it does make mention of the book Heather Has Two Mommies, which features two lesbian women. My thought is, as stated above, that the LGBT teen fiction title would make it more encompassing of all of the people in the LGBT community. While yes, there is a predominant focus on gay and lesbians in most reliable sources, there are books that feature transgender and asexual fictional characters, among others. Having a general landing page would make it more likely that people will write about them in one page rather than to create several offshoots that may not be able to stand on their own. Case in point is the article on lesbian teen fiction, which was redirected to the main article on lesbian fiction. I'd initially moved this to LGBT teen fiction due to how general the article was and because even the page itself starts off with calling it gay teen fiction. If not for the line that says it's supposed to be about gay male teens, I don't think that many people would assume that this is meant to be solely about gay male teen fiction. I'm not sure if there would be enough sourcing to justify creating a page for solely gay male teen fiction either, given that so much of the sourcing seems to be generally about LGBT people or focuses on both gay male lesbian teens at the same time. I figured that it would be good to create a discussion just in case, to stave off any potential controversy. ReaderofthePack (｡◕‿◕｡)  19:54, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Here's the summary of sources, since I know that this will show up on pages that only show the move discussion:
 * "Young Adult Novels with Gay/Lesbian Characters and Themes 1969-92: A Historical Reading of Content, Gender, and Narrative Distance."
 * "The Treatment of Gay and Lesbian Fiction for Young Adults in Selected Prominent Reviewing Media."
 * "Queer lit for the gay teen" - discusses lesbian as well as gay male teen fiction
 * "Interview with Brent Hartinger, Author of Geography Club" - the book features both lesbian and gay male characters, as well as a bisexual female character
 * “Outside Looking In: Representations of Gay and Lesbian Experiences in the Young Adult Novel.”
 * "Whiter Gay Literature?" I can't access this, but it's used to back up a quote about children's books, which is out of scope for the article. (And mentions the book Heather Has Two Mommies) It doesn't mention gay male teen fiction or LGBT teen fiction at all in the quote. The only tie is to Alyson Books, which is given a lot of weight in the section without showing how it specifically ties in to gay male teen fiction. (On an aside, the article really needs cleanup)
 * "Books give honest portrayal of growing up gay" Mentions lesbian teen fiction as well as gay male teen fiction
 * “Gay and Lesbian Fiction for Young Adults: A Survey of Holdings in Canadian Public Libraries.”
 * I can move other stuff from the above post if needed. ReaderofthePack (｡◕‿◕｡)  19:56, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

CN¥
 * Comment. There was previously an article at Lesbian teen fiction, but that was merged to Lesbian fiction in 2010; see Talk:Lesbian teen fiction. The categories remain separate. LGBT literature is a disambiguation page; Lesbian literature, Gay literature, and Bisexual literature are separate articles. Dekimasu よ! 20:11, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Oppose per Dekimasu above, Merge and redirect both to Gay literature to be WP:CONSISTENT with other similar subjects. -- Netoholic @ 05:17, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 3 November 2019

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: page moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 23:39, 11 November 2019 (UTC)

Gay male teen fiction → Gay teen fiction – "Gay", as opposed to "gay male", is the standard naming pattern for articles related to gay men on Wikipedia. Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 09:13, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Support. Not everything has to be spelt out in painful detail. "Gay" is absolutely more common than "gay male" when referring to topics like this. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:23, 6 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Support per nom and Necrothesp. Aoba47 (talk) 03:16, 9 November 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.