Talk:Gaza–Israel barrier/Archive 1

Should this template be here?
I'm not sure but it seems like this should probably be added here EdwardLane (talk) 02:09, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

Comments
Note: the language here is sharply POV, not much different from an Israeli press release (except that Israeli press releases are considerably more literate). I've fixed numerous grammatical and spelling errors, but someone needs to fix the content. Whoever wrote this article has no business doing so.

Whoever thinks that only people who do not identify with a particular point of view should write articles have no business working for the wiki either. Who do you think wrote the articles about Greenpeace, activism, Peace movement and others, their name is legion? Probably not the resident Neocons. If you want to express a different POV, please use the NPOV method for incorporating it into the article, but do not run around saying who should and should not write articles. Watcher 11:36, 28 May 2004 (UTC)

The list of attacks is only very marginally related to the subject. It can also be considered POV as it only cites an Israeli military source. I suggest that it be removed. If someone wants to write an artikle entitled "list of acts of violence in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict" or similar, he can dig it up from this artikles history. B'Tselem's homepage might also be a good place to start as it has lots of statistics (and links to even more statistics) from both sides. PeR 18:12, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)


 * The list are related and relevant, since they handle the security issue of the Gaza Strip barrier - attacks on it (the crossings) and attack that came from Gaza (which the barrier should have blocked in theory). Since there is no other place where the attacks and the barrier are discussed, I return the lists. Also note the list only up to June 8 2003 is according to IDF data. MathKnight 18:33, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)


 * Feel free to create the "list of acts of violence" article I mentioned. Occupying half the space in this article does not seem justified to me. My main point, however, is that any listing of violent acts from only one side of a conflict is inflammatory. PeR


 * There is already a list called Violence in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict 2004. The point here is the security performance of the Gaza Strip barrier. So far, there is no shortage of space, so I see no reason to delete it, since its provide information about the preventing functioning of the barrier, as well as some cases that peaceful civilian crossing (Erez, Karni) were used for terrorism. MathKnight 20:01, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)


 * Only the list of attacks "Through" the barrier is relavent because those should have been blocked. Attacks on the checkpoint are not relavent becaues the checkpoint should be considered "Inside the barrier" and attacks on the checkpoint could not possibly have been blocked by the barrier.


 * The list of attacks on the crossings (such as Erez, Karni and Rafah) is also relevant, as they are frequently clossed because of them. MathKnight 09:51, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * If a list of attacks on Israel is valid. Then a list of Israeli attacks on Gaza is also valid.  Because of the wall, they should have no reason to attack Gaza.  In light of this, I have started a list of Israeli attacks on gaza. --Majestiq 19:35, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * This is a list of attacks related to the crossing (either on and either through), try not to make into a flaming debate. MathKnight 21:16, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

"List of attacks on Gaza Strip crossing points" section to be deleted if legitimate sources are not found
The whole list is incredibly POV and biased. I discovered that actually there was not one valid source link in the entire section. With the exception of one link in Hebrew, which makes it unverifiable in an English language encyclopedia, all links were invalid, expired, or broken. Given the extremely biased nature of this list, and it's disputed relevance, I am announcing my intention of deleting it unless credible impartial journalistic sources can be cited. --AladdinSE 20:14, Apr 9, 2005 (UTC)

It will be hard and will take a long time to replace many Haaretz and Maariv links that were expired and not being archieved under the same name. Expired links are real problem for ongoing events, and I hope you do assume good faith that the links provided were (before expired) a credible reference. So far, in a short notice this what I could fine best:. This one is about the attacks in Karni Crossing. A temporal solution might be using Google, clicking strings from the description of each event and find a news source with open archieve report about it. I am confident that there are exist some. You are invited to contribute to the effort. MathKnight 21:13, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * Does there exist any kind of Hebrew to English language conversion system like babblefish? Perhaps the sources could be linked through there.


 * I am not a proponent of maintaining these lists of attacks of dubious accuracy and even more dubious relevance. It's an occupation for heaven's sakes, of course the Israeli military is constantly being attacked by the occupied Palestinians. As for your sources, how can one possibly assume good faith when what you offer is the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the blatantly Israeli propagandist and virulently anti-Arab "Intelligence and terrorism information center" website??? As for your expired Haaretz and Maaric links, how about non-Israeli references like Reuters, CNN, BBC, AP, etc? --AladdinSE 12:34, Apr 10, 2005 (UTC)


 * 1) It's much more than the military that is being "constantly attacked". 2) Ha'artez and Ma'ariv are respected news sources, not particularly known for any sort of bias. And it's quite clear that local press will cover these things more thoroughly than foreign press. Jayjg (talk)  18:52, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

True, local press does provide more cover. How about Arab press alongside Israeli press? As for Ha'artez and Ma'ariv, these links are unfortunately invalid. Also, I know it's not just the military that are being attacked, but the disputed list is one which details attacks on a border separation installation, a military target. --AladdinSE 08:30, Apr 11, 2005 (UTC)
 * What Arab press would cover it? There's no free press in the Palestinian territories, and what press exists is in Arabic.  Maybe Al-Jazeerah or Al-Ahram; though their standards are dismaying low, at least they have English editions.  Mind you, they're not local, so the odds of them covering each one is low anyway.  As for the list itself, I'm not sure about it. Jayjg (talk)  16:29, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I'm not familiar with the state of the Arab press in the Palestinian Territories, you're sure they are not free? Where can I read up on that? I know that Israel practices censorship too, see Censorship of the Palestinian Press in East Jerusalem. Al Jazeera and Al Ahram dismayingly low? According to whom? They certainly are not local, but I know that Al-Jazeera maintains one of the largest Arab press contingents in Palestine. --AladdinSE 08:27, Apr 12, 2005 (UTC)


 * Here are some links describing the state of Palestinian press under the P.A. Note, they are more recent than your 15 year old article.  Or, you could simply take a look at these rankings by Freedom House:   And if you think all those sources are biased, how about a report from the strongly anti-Israel Washington Report on Middle East Affairs.   Here's an article about Al Jazeera. As for Al Ahram, it is the official organ of the Egyptian government; reading either source gives you a clue to the issues with their standards. Jayjg (talk)  15:30, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I don't know what's biased, I asked for links because I wanted to read up on the issue, which I will now do. --AladdinSE 04:37, Apr 13, 2005 (UTC)

2002 quote from Yom Tov Samiah
I've removed the following insertion to Talk: for discussion: A week after one such set of demolitions affecting 60 homes on 9th and 10th of January 2002, Major-general Yom Tov Samiah told Israeli radio that, "These houses should have been demolished and evacuated a long time ago ... three hundred meters of the Strip along the two sides of the border should be evacuated ... Three hundred meters, no matter how many houses, period." I'm having trouble seeing what a 2002 quote from Yom Tov Samiah adds to the article. Apparently some Israeli military person was interviewed on the radio and gave his opinion about something several years ago. So what? Is this something that actually happened? Was it enshrined as official policy somewhere? Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a tabloid newspaper; I'm sure we could fill the article up with dozens of off-the-cuff quotes from various people. Instead, let's try to keep the article encyclopedic in tone. Jayjg (talk) 17:27, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

The article is lacking in information on the impact of the barrier on the population of Gaza. This is the beginning of one small addition to rectify that situation. Upon reflection though, I think there should be a whole section devoted to that subject. I'll keep that paragraph aside for that purpose, draft something up and put it in soon. Thanks for bringing it to my attention Jayjg. Tiamut 20:27, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Article needs updating
I'm going to be adding a significant amount of material to the article today in order to bring it up to date with current events. I ask that editors who feel the additions are objectionable, bring their concerns here before reverting or blanking information. Thanks for your patience an cooperation in advance.  T i a m u t talk 16:38, 24 January 2008 (UTC)


 * This article would benefit greatly from a map showing the extent of the barrier and the nature/type of the barrier at different points along the path. N2e (talk) 14:40, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Buffer Zone
Is it 500m? One kilometer? And is it on the Gaza side of the demarcation line? Suggest this "no man's land" be represented on the map. RomaC (talk) 23:09, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Move back to Israel-Gaza Strip barrier or to Gaza Strip barriers?
The article Egypt–Gaza barrier was created in 2010 after 2009 when this article was retitled Israel and Egypt – Gaza Strip barrier from Israel-Gaza Strip barrier. (Another possible alternative would be Gaza Strip barriers and merge Egypt-Gaza barrier into that.)

It now has a whole section on the Egypt–Gaza barrier and links to that article. (A clarifying mention would help, but that can be done with title emphasizing the main topic of the article, the one between Israel and Gaza.) It is extremely confusing and having just worked a lot on Separation barrier I can vouch for that. Unless someone comes up with some really good reason to keep it with this confusing title, I'll go to Move discussion and ask an admin to move it back - or if people like Gaza Strip barriers better, move it to that. CarolMooreDC &#x1f5fd; 17:53, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

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Include the much more detailed German map
The German article contains a much more detailed map of the barrier, especially including the various zones:



Unfortunately it's a PNG so the text can't be translated easily, but the added info outweighs that. If anyone wants to actually edit, you'll probably need these words:


 * (map legend top down:) Bebautes Gelände = built-up area, Flüchtlingslager = refugee camp, nur für Bauern = only for farmers, Gefahrenzone = danger zone, Grenzübergang = [border] checkpoint
 * (in the brackets for the checkpoints:) geschlossen = closed, offen = open, funktionsuntüchtig = inoperable

-- 31.16.255.50 (talk) 19:45, 12 June 2018 (UTC)


 * An English version is already available, see second thumbnail.Map of Gaza Strip with no-go zone 2012.jpg -- 95.90.216.96 (talk) 10:46, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

NPOV tag
This article is written entirely from the Israeli perspective and doesn't even make the slightest attempt at including the Palestinian perspective. I don't see how some limited tweaking can fix it, really it needs rewriting from scratch. Zerotalk 05:01, 3 September 2021 (UTC)