Talk:George Franklin Barber

Neutral
I think "George Franklin Barber (1854-1915) was one of the most popular and successful architects of the late Victorian period in America." fails our NPOV rules. Is there any evidence to back this up? Also, this appears to be a text dump, please cite some sources. - Mgm|(talk) 21:33, 24 October 2005 (UTC)


 * That statement doesn't violate NPOV - being popular and successful are objective criteria. If it said he was the best, that would have a higher degree of proof required.  Tempshill 04:16, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

(moved from Wikipedia:Village Pump / Policy: I suspect this to be a copyvio, but I can't find anything online. Are there any architect enthusiasts who can check their books? - Mgm|(talk) 10:38, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

None of this appears to be directly copied from any book I have, but... As to the "most popular and successful" statement, George F. Barber was certainly prolific -- though I haven't seen a comprehensive list (and I doubt such a thing exists), Cornell University's Director of the Graduate Program in Historic Preservation Planning, Michael Tomlan, has stated that Barber's houses are located in all 50 states and several foreign countries. Examples have been located as far away as Japan and the Philippines. So if "prolific" translates to "popular and successful," I think this is unquestionable. In a recent book published by University of Tennessee Press (which I can't now remember the name of, since I haven't yet gotten a copy), Claudette Stager of the Tennessee Historical Commission describes Barber as the most famous architect in Tennessee at the turn of the century (or something of that sort -- I'm paraphrasing from memory). Archarin 03:58, 12 October 2006 (UTC). Since the NPOV dispute is still listed on the page despite the apparently disputed text being excised, I've added some of it back, in what can hopefully be considered a less objectionable form. I suppose some citations would help. Archarin 04:21, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm unclear about how the NPOV note ever gets removed, so I've done it. If this triggers some bot to flag the article for review, I think that's all for the best. Basically, my take on this is that the NPOV dispute was initiated two years ago over the specific wording of one statement, which has long since been rewritten. If there is another basis for continuing the NPOV, I don't see it. Archarin (talk) 00:13, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Actually, on closer inspection, there is a piece near the end talking about Shaw and Queen Anne Style that seems really familiar. I'll check on it later. Archarin 05:07, 12 October 2006 (UTC)


 * If he's one of the most popular or successful, we need a secondary source saying so. Tomlan states Barber was one of the most successful in his intro to the Cottage Souvenir No. 2 and Victorian Cottage Architecture reprints, so we'll go with that.  Bms4880 (talk) 19:02, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

four dozen NRHP-listed works
It's currently claimed in the article that there exist four dozen George F. Barber works individually listed on the U.S. National Register of Historic Places. By my count here, in current version of George F. Barber temporary list-article, that is not so. I searched the March 2009 version of NRIS for all hits on Barber and edited that list, coming up with 37 possible individual listings, not 48. The original count was apparently based on search of NRIS copy at private, commercial website http://www.nationalregisterofhistoricplaces.com which recently updated to a more recent-than-March 2009 NRIS version, but I don't know of many new NRHP additions of Barber works, so I think the original count is not strictly correct, could be changes to "several dozen" perhaps.

By the way, the George F. Barber article is duplicative and is in process of being merged to List of George Franklin Barber works; discussion at Talk:List of George Franklin Barber works. -- do ncr  am  17:46, 15 May 2011 (UTC)


 * There are five listed under Barber & Kluttz, and four listed under Barber & Klutz. Thomas Kluttz (or Klutz) was Barber's partner, and handled the firm's business affairs.  That makes 46.  Your listing doesn't include the J. Hawkins Hart House, the Alvin Bushnell Bell House, or the James Twiss House.  That's 49.  Bms4880 (talk) 21:18, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Possible Barber-designed building
I found this in a Google Books search. It's a 1907 issue of the Daily Bulletin of the Manufacturers Record, which states (2nd column, 3rd paragraph): "Knoxville, Tenn. - Bank Building-- I.A. Galyon has contract to erect three-story building, costing $75,000, for the Mechanics' National Bank after plans by Barber, Kluttz & Graf." I suspect this is the Mechanics' Bank and Trust Company Building, which was originally three stories, and was built in 1907 (the company was originally Mechanics National Bank). The National Register nomination form for this building lists the architect as "Unknown," and doesn't discuss the architect or builder, though it was filled out in the early 80's when they didn't put much effort into these forms.

If this firm did design this building, there is also the possibility that the "Graf" partner, which I suspect is R. F. Graf (who designed two other buildings on Gay Street in the 1920s), had more to do with the design than Barber. This is the only instance I have seen of Graf working with Barber's firm, so it may have been some sort of temporary partnership. I'll fish around more and see what else I can find. Bms4880 (talk) 19:56, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I've added this to the "Works" page for George Barber, with the Graf reference. Archarin (talk) 15:51, 14 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Does the facade look more Barber or Graf? Bms4880 (talk) 16:12, 14 January 2014 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure anyone could really make that judgment. Barber's firm did relatively few commercial structures, and I doubt anyone has a good grasp of Graf's body of work.  Graf worked at Barber's firm before setting off on his own (Kluttz also worked there some time before being made a partner).  I haven't gotten to the bottom of why Barber, while going so far as to promote the term "Barber house" as a sort of brand name, went through such a string of partners whom he also included in a new modified name of the firm -- Martin Parmelee, Kluttz, Graf, John Ryno.  I think the fact that it never appears as "Barber, Kluttz, and Graf" in most sources is that there was so little overlap -- Kluttz died in 1907, and the catalog business itself was suspended around 1908.  So all you're left with are miscellaneous newspaper references.  Kluttz's November 1907 obituary, for example, also refers to the firm as "Barber, Kluttz, and Graf."  In some sense, listing any of these as "with R.F. Graf" is a little bit misleading, in that the designs would have been the work product of the larger firm.  I should probably just try to make some dates-of-various-partnerships distinction at the beginning of the whole list, but that gets to be entirely unclear as well for the catalog houses since designs were recycled for years, and people were ordering plans from catalogs years old.  Archarin (talk) 21:17, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

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