Talk:Gerald Ward (biker)

Ward made someone pay him $10000

Before I removed it, our article said "When Ward caught one drug dealer who was pretending to work for him in order to increase the price of the cocaine he sold, Ward forced him to pay $10, 000 dollars for the unauthorized use of his name." This is one of the things disputed by User:Grasshopper1970. Since it's sourced to an online source it seemed easy to check although was a little more difficult. First the URL was dead and archives don't seem to work properly [23] (the content is there but doesn't seem to display at least on my browser, it's visible in the page source). However this story seems to be reproduced on several sites owned by the publisher e.g. [24]. While I didn't check it word for word with what's hidden in the archive, the beginning and end seem the same and importantly both and indeed our article reports it as actually originally published by The St. Catharines Standard.So I considered this an acceptable replacement without checking each cited claim. Next problem is the claim doesn't seem to appear in that source. But it's the second part of a four part story, so perhaps whoever added it simply confused the part. Sure enough found it in the next part which we also used and had the same dead url problem. Finally I found it but what the source says is:

The Niagara chapter would track down anyone using the Hells Angels name falsely and "make 'em pay" -- literally.
"I just got 10 grand off a guy two weeks ago, " Ward told Gault. "He used my name three times, my name personally."
Even Ward's son got $2,000 from a man in a bar who bragged he was part of the club.

While it's given as an example of the chapter getting people to literally pay I'm unconvinced we should present it as factual since it's unclear there's any verification this happened. I assume it was on the wiretap so it's unquestionable that Ward made this claim, however given the way it's presented, it's unclear whether this was something for which independent evidence was found. Possibly the source is enough to establish Ward and those around him and get people to pay for misusing the Hells Angels name (which doesn't seem particularly unusual and is something that the source clearly says in their own voice and for which there's probably more evidence than that presented by the source) but I'm not sure we should mention specific incidents unless there's more known about them than something Ward once said. I'd also note that AFAICT no where does the source say "drug dealer who was pretending to work for him in order to increase the price of the cocaine he sold". It seems this is likely, and possibly there's more is in the public record about what this 10 grand thing is about, but it's not in the source we use.

Nil Einne (talk) 00:49, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

Looking into this more, our article also said "The high quality of Ward's cocaine gave him a sterling reputation in underworld circles, and led to rival drug dealers pretending to be working for Ward in order to increase their profits, a practice that greatly annoyed Ward." I initially missed something in the ref which is the one cited above although I found it's also [25] which we also use but is a better version as the Cambridge Times source which I just noticed has an image caption or something in the middle of text. Anyway, it does say:

The quality of his coke and the patch on his back expanded Ward's criminal corporation beyond the region's borders.
<snipped>
Ward often talked about his business with Gault, including dealing with the annoyance of lesser criminals attempting to carve a piece of the narcotic racket for themselves. Ward bragged to Gault about how he shut down small-time dealers who were living off his table scraps.
"We don't often know what he did to those (smaller dealers), but they ceased to be a problem for him, " Clarkson said. "That just shows you how powerful the image of the Hells Angels is. The patch carries a lot of weight."

But this simply says he stopped people selling in his territory, not that these people were claiming to be part of the Hells Angels.

The next article in that series [26] does mention the above along with the quality of Ward's cocaine but unless I missed it, it doesn't clear connect the two and indeed the quality isn't even talked about in the same part of the article. And the Ward son thing seems to likely be just an dumb ideal boast.

It seems quite likely people did pretend to sell Ward's product when it wasn't and this was something which angered him and for which he meted out his own "justice"/revenge, probably more severely than dealers who just tried to sell in his territory, but we need a source which clearly says that rather than just guessing from logic (i.e. WP:OR). Since we mention the quality earlier, I eventually after some earlier mistakes removed the whole sentence.

Nil Einne (talk) 09:46, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

Grasshopper1970

The last edit summary by Grasshopper1970 which states that his/her source was "Mr. Ward" here [27] leads to concerns that this editor is either Gerald Ward or someone closely linked to him, which is why I have added the template. --A.S. Brown (talk) 23:30, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

Dishonorable p*"*ks the ward brothers

I heard from a friend that Barry Ward forced his daughter Tina and my friend's girlfriend and personally drove forced and drove them to St.Catharines court house to honor her subpoena and take the stand against him.My friend asked his lawyer what was going on since Skinny had promised him that he would talk to his brother and niece and not to show.His lawyer responded that all the Wards honored their subpoenas.So my friend ended up with another 3 months on top of doing 6 months dead time. He came back on the range in the Niagara detention centre fuming.First thing he does is confront.Skinny about his fat RAT brother barry forcing his daughter to court and personally drove her to court to make sure she would Testify against him and that he was told that all the Wards honor their subpoenas.He said what's that tell me Skinny.Mr Gerald Skinny Ward took it dry. All of Welland knew about it right away from the guys that were on the phones.That night they took Skinny off the range. Skinny was in trying to beat a 25 years old murder charge and was denied bail months earlier.Everyone thought that he was going to court the next day. Yet Skinny failed to come back to the range the next day. But I do know that Barry Ward 100% did force his daughter to testify in court that my friend stole her car yet Skinny assured my friend that she would not show. My friend was high and didn't know that it was his nieces car. He told me that his girlfriend had not only paid for any damages to the vehicle and that she also had 4 new tires put on.On top of that she had given his niece $5,000 for any inconveniences.His niece was very understanding and wanted the charges to be dropped.But the morning of court came and her father Barry came to personally and forcefully escorted both the girls to the courthouse and stayed there to force his daughter to testify against my friend.anyways they are as solid as pea soup. Anonymous6572 (talk) 21:05, 15 May 2022 (UTC)