Talk:Gewehr 98

Untitled
MAJOR STUB

I just basically put in one sentence. It's late at night. I'll dig out some info about it tomorrow. Then I'll figure out how to make sidebars.

WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Tag & Assess 2008
Article reassessed and graded as start class. --dashiellx (talk) 18:17, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

The safety does not (!) secure the trigger! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.226.196.44 (talk) 12:05, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Lange Visier
"... known as the Lange Visier (long sight)." The Lange Visier was named after its inventor Lange. "Lange Visier" does not mean "long sight" (which would be "langes Visier"). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:8108:8B40:638:8958:32BE:6127:E5C1 (talk) 05:36, 21 August 2016 (UTC)


 * You are right, I have a book which states this as well. The book at hand is "German Military Rifles and Machine Pistols 1871-1945 by Hans-Dieter Götz", also available in German, supposedly.


 * I can quote from page 122: "The first [referring to a clinometer sight] was named after its inventor, Lieutenant Colonel Lange, at that time the director of the ammunition factory in Spandau." Thom430 (talk) 12:44, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

Number Built
According to the Mauser company, approximately 100 Million Mauser 98s have been built. http://www.mauserwaffen.de/1898.191.0.html?&L=1. I am sure this number is inclusive of all Mauser 98 variants, including the K98k and other Mausers made in/for Poland, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, Turkey, China, Siam, etc., etc. but doesn't it deserve to be included in this article, since 100 Million rifles produced would make this design one of the most produced in history? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.242.181.138 (talk) 21:02, 2 February 2010 (UTC)


 * That would be close to the number of AK-47s made.86.42.197.142 (talk) 07:34, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

I recently acquired Dieter Storz's comprehensive book about the Gewehr 98, "Rifle and Carbine 98", and he cites in pp150 that his estimate of total produced G98 pattern rifles lies somewhere between 13 and 13.5 million, which is much larger than the infobox's claim of "5 million" (which would be far shorter than the amount of mobilized men that the Germans had fielded in WW1). 22:23, 11 April 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.184.191.46 (talk)


 * The source you've given is better than the current one which is a dead link to a website that seems to be self-published. The only question is if "G98 pattern" includes the Kar98k as well. --Sus scrofa (talk) 08:00, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Argentina as user
Pleas add Argentina, I used myself a Gewehr 98 in the Army. It was standard before the use of the FN FAL! :-) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.144.116.138 (talk) 09:10, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

1888 pattern M/88 ammunition and conversion to 1905 pattern 8x57mm IS
The Gewehr 98 was originally chambered for the M/88 service cartridge. In 1905, after a service period of 17 years, the 8 mm M/88 cartridge which was introduced in 1888 and loaded with a 8.08 mm (.318 in) diameter 14.6 g (226 gr) round nose bullet was replaced by the 8x57mm IS/7.92×57mm Mauser service cartridge which was loaded with a new 8.20 mm (.323 in) diameter 9.9 g (154 gr) spitzer bullet. The introduction of this new service ammunition offered improved accuracy and a flatter trajectory at the price that the existing military Gewehr 98 rifle stock had to be rechambered and rebarreled. The ammunition conversion was indicated by a small "S" stamped above the chamber and on the barrel at the back of the rear sight base. This was done since the 1888 pattern M/88 cartridge and 1905 S-bore pattern cartridge are two different non interchangeable chamberings. Post 1905 Gewehr 98 rifles also had a "S" rollmark indicating that the new improved ammunition can be safely used. Since the new IS cartridge had a flatter trajectory the Lange Visier rear sight also had to be changed with an "S" adapted Lange Visier. Besides the military developed S-bore a narrower I-bore was developed by civilian gunsmiths according to the groove and bore diameter ratio principles used in the S-bore to improve the M/88 accuracy whist retaining the smaller projectile diameter of the M/88. This ammunition is in 2012 known as the 8x57 I. Just like the 8x57 IS the 8x57 I chambering differs from the parental M/88 chambering. The original military M/88 chambering is not factory produced anymore and has effectively been replaced by the civilian 8x57 I chambering that can be fired safely from historic rifles (besides using larger diameter bullets the 8x57 IS has a higher service pressure). Logic dictates that firing 8x57 I from 8x57 IS chambered arms will have adverse effects on accuracy. The article 8×57mm IS cartridge portrait - Totgesagte leben länger, Wild und Hund 11/2006 explains the history from M/88 to 8x57 mm IS and 8x57mm I from military and civilian use perspectives in even more detail.--Francis Flinch (talk) 14:56, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

My edits were deleted
I wrote up a detailed segment about the Gewehr 98 in the Nazi era and about the Volkssturn using it and now it is all gone. Why do you delete good info? 74.51.57.78 (talk) 06:42, 18 March 2013 (UTC)


 * The article already contained information sections regarding combat service and the Weimar Republic and Nazi Germany:


 * Combat service
 * ''The Gewehr 98 saw service primarily in World War I, as well as various colonial actions in the preceding years. As with all contemporary bolt-action rifles, it was a powerful and accurate rifle with long range that was poorly suited for the close quarter fighting of trench warfare. The considerable length of the rifle and the minimum sight setting of 400 meters (far in excess of the typical range in trench battles) were particular handicaps.


 * Its successor, the Karabiner 98k, would go on to be the standard rifle of the German infantry during World War II. Some Gewehr 98s also saw service in World War II, though many of these older rifles were converted to either 98b or 98k specifications.


 * Weimar Republic and Nazi Germany
 * The Weimar Republic, the successor state to the German Empire, implemented a program designed to update their remaining supplies of Gewehr 98 rifles for the Reichswehr in the years following World War I. Rifles allowed into service with the early Weimar security forces were stamped with a "1920" marking on their receiver ring. Further updates to Weimar-era Gewehr 98's often included the replacement of the Lange Visier rear sight with a standard Karabiner 98k-style rear sight and sometimes a shortening of the barrel to Karabiner 98k length. Rifles that received these later modifications will often have both Weimar-era and Nazi markings, and "S/42" stamped on the rear sight base.


 * Additionally, Hitler initially chose to outfit his elite Schutzstaffel (SS) bodyguard units with modified Gewehr 98 rifles. Those rifles obtained by the SS normally had their original markings fully or partially removed and replaced with stylized Totenkopf markings.


 * There is nothing wrong with adding information. If you like please add your additional information and the Volkssturm use in the combat use section, preferably with some referencing.--Francis Flinch (talk) 08:59, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Glad to see that a further edit I made in the same section was retained. 69.60.229.207 (talk) 23:24, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

= M98, the most produced rifle in history? = I've come across several articles (in both Swedish and American hunting magazines) that states that the M98 is the most produced rifle in history, with over millions 100 produced. I suspect that this is a figure for all rifles with the 98-system (or the the whole M98 family of rifles), but I am not sure. I would like to add this figure somewhere, but I do not know in which article it should be added and how it should be explained so that it does not mislead anyone. Can anyone help me?EriFr (talk) 08:28, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

See:

http://www.gundigest.com/gun-collecting-firearm-collecting/mauser-the-most-important-rifle

http://www.mauser.com/en/products/m98/m98/

What does this mean?
"The safety can only be released by firing the rifle with the safety set in the ready to fire position or by closing the cocked bolt with a previously pulled trigger that must be kept pulled back during the closing operation. Disengaging the safety by closing the bolt is only possible with the safety set in the ready-to-fire position. "

I'm trying to decipher this, without much success...you can only take it "off safe" by "firing the rifle with the safety set in the ready to fire position"? You'd have to have the safety "off" in order to fire the rifle in the first place! Or, to release the safety, you have to start with an open bolt, and hold the trigger down while closing the bolt? Rubbish. The only other thing I can think it's trying to say is that you have to drop the striker in order to remove the safety when disassembling the bolt? That doesn't make much sense either, as one can lower the striker with the bolt removed, if you want. I've taken it entirely apart before, and don't recall anything like this. I have a Mauser 98, but it's got some kind of weird (apparently) aftermarket safety designed for use with a scope, which only has "on" and "off" (no bolt-lock position), and for some reason, it automatically disengages the safety when you open the bolt...not sure why. Kind of a silly design. Not only does it flip off by itself if you open the bolt (with the striker cocked, of course...safety won't flip on unless it's cocked), but it only moves like 20deg up to engage, and can easily be disengaged by bumping it against something. But I don't think that has any relation to a normal Mauser safety. My Springfield is identical to a Mauser, and has the 3-postion safety which is "on" on until you flip it off manually. Much better system. One can flip the safety on or off at any time, as long as the striker is cocked. The only reason to have a safety on a gun is for when you have a round chambered, and Mauser wouldn't have been such an idiot as to design a gun the required you to mess with the trigger to release the safety. That's a good way for accidents to happen! I think I'm going to fix this. If I'm totally missing something, then someone else can change it back, but I hope they change the phrasing to make it comprehensible to people like me..45Colt 05:56, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Karabiner 98A Mystery
I noticed that in the variants section when talking about the Karabiner 98a (lowercase a) it says "not to be confused with the later Karabiner 98k or the earlier Karabiner 98A (uppercase a)..." a quick google search shows no Karabiner 98A that I can find. Can someone enlighten me please? Yolo McSwagginz93 (talk) 00:02, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

=Effective Firing Range=

The effective firing range seems off for this rifle. The K98k has a longer range than this rifle according to its article, but it should be obvious that can't be true. As well, the M1903 article states that the US adopted a new, heavier round due to encountering long range fire from the G98, but its article also states that its range is up to six times that of the G98. This makes absolutely no sense, since both were only slight variations on the G98. Also, why would they produce millions of this rifle with sights out to 2000m if its maximum range is less than half of that?--142.167.27.183 (talk) 00:32, 18 September 2016 (UTC)


 * Read Gewehr_98. The maximum range of the 7.92×57mm Mauser ammunition is mostly dependent on the employed projectile. The Gewehr 98 normally fired the S Patrone during WW 1, the Karabiner 98k normally fired the for long range optimized s.S. Patrone during WW 2. The newer s.S. Patrone was issued during WW 1 mainly for aerial combat and as of 1918 in the later stages of WW I to infantry machine gunners. The various military ball iterations of the .30-06_Springfield and their long range performance are also covered in Wikipedia.--Francis Flinch (talk) 12:48, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

My point was more in comparison to the M1903 Springfield and M1917 Enfield articles, where the claim is made that the weapons "maximum range" is the distance the M1 ball could travel when fired at a 45 degree angle in the air. Obviously that it is ridiculous, but technically you could use the later era ammunition in a G98 without a problem and get those greater distances. Some were held in reserve into WWII so it is highly likely that they did indeed use the new ammunition and could achieve the greater range.

--142.167.27.183 (talk) 04:12, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 4 external links on Gewehr 98. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070629170945/http://gewehr98.com:80/html/Karabiner98a.html to http://gewehr98.com/html/Karabiner98a.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110621074716/http://www.greyfalcon.us:80/Weapons.htm to http://www.greyfalcon.us/Weapons.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110608175540/http://www.probertencyclopaedia.com/F_GEWEHR_98.HTM to http://www.probertencyclopaedia.com/F_GEWEHR_98.HTM
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.geocities.com/Eureka/Plaza/4770/mauser98.jpg

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 08:47, 11 January 2017 (UTC)

Dieter Storz estimation
"At the outbreak of the war in 1914, the German Army had 2.273.080 Mauser 98-rifles of all types; additional 7.000.000 were produced during the war"

This is taken from Dr.Dieter Storz book "Gewehr & Karabiner 98". He's the curator of the Bavarian Army-Museum in Ingolstadt. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dieter_Storz

2003:6F:8624:8801:D8EA:DF47:7B4D:517 (talk) 21:51, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 7 external links on Gewehr 98. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://tirmilitairefabrice.ifrance.com/site%20mauser1/Mauser.htm
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://gewehr98.com/html/Karabiner98a.html
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://johnrigbyandco.com/html/AfricanExpressBoltRifle.html
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.huntinglegends.com/rigby-and-mauser/
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.greyfalcon.us/Weapons.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121108082047/http://www.fuerzas-armadas.es/portal/blog/post.php?IdPage_blog=6072 to http://www.fuerzas-armadas.es/portal/blog/post.php?IdPage_blog=6072
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://members.fortunecity.com/milit/gew98.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 00:52, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Gewehr 98. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070708165944/http://tirmilitairefabrice.ifrance.com/site%20mauser1/Mauser.htm to http://tirmilitairefabrice.ifrance.com/site%20mauser1/Mauser.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 10:30, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 06:15, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Karabiner 98b (Sketch).jpg

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 06:02, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Karabiner 98b (Sketch).jpg