Talk:Gibraltar pound

Conversion to GBP
I have removed the following text because I not only cant find anything to back it up, but also because I am aware of specific instructions to the contrary:


 * Gibraltar issued notes are actually denominated as Pound Sterling as are all bank accounts. High Street Banks in the UK are instructed to exchange them 1:1 for UK notes. Some branches may not be aware of the procedure and may attempt to charge a commission.

Reasoning:
 * 1) OANDA specifically quote a GIP/GBP rate which differs over time
 * 2) I work for a UK clearing bank, and we are certainly aware of the procedure - daily exchange rates for GIP are sent to us
 * 3) Point 2 backed up by Thomas Cook Bureau de Change staff

If the instruction supposedly given to UK High Street Banks is available I would be most interested to read it. Ian3055 17:51, 6 May 2006 (UTC)


 * The GBP/GIP conversion rate never changes. It is always parity, i.e. 1.0000. What you see on OANDA is the effect of GBP/USD and GIP/USD updating out of sync internally within OANDA. The effect is an apparent GBP/GIP rate <> 1.0000. In my experience, GIP is not a currency in its own right, except in the world of wholesale banknote trading. In wholesale banknote trading, GIP notes have a lower price than BoE GBP notes, as do Scottish and Northern Irish notes. NFH 19:44, 7 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Talking of out-of-sync, on the GIP page it says "The Gibraltar pound, the currency of Gibraltar, is another name for the Pound Sterling", on the Gibraltar it says "The unit of currency in use is the Pound Sterling with notes issued by the Government of Gibraltar although there is an ISO code of GIP for the Gibraltar Pound", and Template:Gibraltar topics links to Gibraltar pound, not GPB... Would anyone like to update these pages to some internally consistent versions? TYIA. -- Jokes Free4Me 17:10, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * On a related point, the intro to this page suffered from the same problem as Manx pound in that no definition of what the Gibraltar pound actually is was provided. One was left either confused, or with the impression that "Gibraltar pound" is somehow an exact synonym for "pound" (i.e. pound sterling), which is clearly not the case. I have tried to rewrite it to give such a definition. If anyone can think of a better way then please feel free! Matt 11:50, 1 September 2006 (UTC).

Everything I've read suggests that they're two separate currencies pegged to each other at par, not the same currency. The government describes the situation as: "The currency is Gibraltar pounds, at par with sterling". The fact that they've been pegged at par and have similar coinage means that in practice they're sometimes treated interchangeably, but this doesn't mean they are actually the same currency, or legally interchangeable. A similar situation exists in the Bahamas between the United States dollar and the Bahamian dollar (although the same situation does not exist in the U.S., due to its much larger size and general ignorance that Bahamian dollars exist). --Delirium 01:13, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

The matter is indeed confused. However, as far as I can see its impossible to buy a GIP, the notes are sterling (read them) and no bank in Gibraltar, or anywhere else, offers an account denominated in GIP.

Its academic that someone quotes an exchange rate when there is no such currency. At one time Barclays bank charged .25% to convert between local accounts and sterling. Someone took them to court and they had to abandon the practice.

In any event the article should be renamed 'Gibraltar Pound' not Gibraltarian which had a defined legal meaning. --Gibnews 00:17, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

In Gibraltar, local issue notes and coins and Bank of England ones are freely intermixed. Ergo, they are the same currency. http://gibraltarinfo.gi/en/faq-items/what-currency-do-i-use/ Jacob Newton (talk) 15:24, 2 February 2018 (UTC)


 * As Gibnews noted above, within the banking and payment system (where most 'money' exists) there are no distinctions made in the electronic ledgers of the banks between GBP and GBP - they are the same thing. They move seamlessly through the UK payment networks (BACS, Faster Payments, CHAPS).
 * This is unlike the Bahamian dollars. The Bahamas has its own central bank, with reserve accounts for Bahamian banks, which are denominated in Bahamian dollars. Although Bahamanian dollars are at par with US dollars, there are exchange controls in place.
 * Gibratar has no central bank: the only central banking facilities available in sterling for Gibratar banks are through the Bank of England. The Government of Gibraltar has no ablity to issue central bank money (bank reserves).
 * This leads to the unavoidable conclusion that the Gibratar Pound is merely a local note issue of the British pound sterling, and no more a currency than the 'Royal Bank of Scotland pound'.
 * Mauls (talk) 10:05, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

0.92:1 ??
Whichever of the above views are correct, the following sentence surely cannot be universally correct:


 * Gibraltar notes are not legal tender in the UK, but are exchangable at a rate of 0.92:1 for UK notes at banks.

If this exchange rate were applicable both ways in the UK, but the rate remained at 1:1 in Gibraltar itself, a lot of profit could be made by transporting money back and forth! However, oanda.com does indeed claim that 1 GIP = 0.92798 GBP, and has varied between 0.91400 and 1.04180 GBP in the past 12 months. This is not just a small numerical error caused by unsynchronised updating of other exchange rates, as suggested above by NFH. The deviations from 1.0000 are too big for that. Surely Oanda must be wrong. If you look at xe.com, their rate is precisely 1.0000.

I've emailed oanda.com, and they are looking into it.

Another point: it doesn't make sense to say the Gibraltar pound is a different currency from Sterling, because the Gibraltar banknotes use the words "Pounds Sterling"! If it's a different currency from the UK pound, then there must be more than one Pound Sterling. Mtford 00:12, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Origin of Queen's portrait?
The portrait of Elizabeth II on the Gibraltar banknotes is clearly not a recent one! Can anybody find a reference for the date and artist, and perhaps an explanation for the Gibraltar government's decision to keep such an old image? Mtford 00:47, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
 * The image on GBP notes is old aswell, as well as Manx and others. I think only Her Majesties image on coins changes (with 3 different ages currently in circulation on the £+p - as far as I'm aware.) --Kurtle (talk) 01:16, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Non-English pounds

 * UK coins and banknotes circulate in Gibraltar and are universally accepted and interchangeable with Gibraltar pounds

Does this include Scottish and Northern Irish pounds? Same question about other mentions of "UK pounds"? --Error 00:16, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Now that you mention it, no. Perhaps we should change it to 'English coins and banknotes'? Chris Buttigiegtalk 11:21, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Definition of "Gibraltar pound" in lead
Since we see fit to have an article called "Gibraltar pound", the introduction needs to give a definition of what that is. Several times I have changed the first sentence from "The pound ... is the currency of Gibraltar." to "The Gibraltar pound ... is the currency of Gibraltar.", but it is changed back. If my definition is incorrect then please fix it, but please don't just change it back to "The pound ... is the currency of Gibraltar." If someone looks up "Gibraltar pound" and reads that, then the obvious response is "fine, the pound is the currency of Gibraltar, so what then is the Gibraltar pound?". It's terribly confusing. The article really does need to begin with "The Gibraltar pound is ... [whatever it is]" Matt 19:13, 1 July 2007 (UTC).


 * I disagree. The article is called the Gibraltar pound because it is about the pound of Gibraltar. The name "Gibraltar pound" has no official standing and appears nowhere on the currency. That's why it keeps getting changed back to "The pound...". This isn't a big point but it can cause confusion if it isn't got right. Dove1950 10:48, 2 July 2007 (UTC)


 * There is an ISO code for it, and the Government of Gibraltar itself uses the term on its own websites, as does the FCO  and the CIA .  I know some Gibraltarians think the GIP is a mythical beast, and have even lobbied the CIA to change it on their personal website  but notably the CIA have not done so.   The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick t 23:08, 3 July 2007 (UTC)


 * If there's one thing we can be sure of, it's that the CIA is in no way a reliable guide. Sadly, ISO 4217 is also very unreliable and inconsistent. What would be needed to justify use of Gibraltar pound is somewhere official that actually defines that term. The very fact that this article currently also has Gibraltarian pound indicates to me that neither term has any official standing. Dove1950 12:14, 4 July 2007 (UTC)


 * What is your evidence that the CIA is in no way a reliable guide? Also, explain the Government of Gibraltar's use of the term and the British Foreign and Commonwealth Office's use of the term.  Aren't Government websites official enough for you?  Isn't this evidence enough for you?  "What is Gibraltar’s currency?  The monetary unit is the Gibraltar pound"  I agree that the term "Gibraltar pound" may not be enshrined in any law anywhere, but this is clearly the term used by convention to distinguish it from pounds issued by other governments.   The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick t 12:20, 4 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Your link does not use the term "Gibraltar pound", so why should we? Dove1950 10:35, 5 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, that one got changed (at the behest of a Wikipedian who appears to be buddies with the webmaster). However, explain the FCO use of the term?    The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick t 10:43, 5 July 2007 (UTC)


 * And the BBC's?  The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick t 10:45, 5 July 2007 (UTC)


 * The FCO is clear but is unfortunately in conflict with the government site (even if it is an "inside job"). I think, based on what evidence there is, we should remove "Gibraltarian pound" as there is no evidence for that whatsoever and wait for a consensus on "Gibraltar pound". How does that sound? Dove1950 15:21, 5 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree "Gibraltarian pound" is fishy and probably should be removed. "Gibraltar pound" though is very definitely used, and that is what is important, not whether it is "official", so I can't see any reason for expunging it from Wikipedia.  It is still referred to on a Government of G. website:   The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick t 16:24, 5 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, Gibraltar pound is more applicable. Chris Buttigieg 17:54, 5 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Further to the above: (1) If it is not possible to formulate a sentence "The Gibraltar pound is [definition]" then there should not be a Wikipedia article called "Gibraltar pound". That much seems obvious to me. The text of "[definition]" can of course include phrasing such as "unofficial name", or whatever it might be, if that is deemed appropriate. Otherwise the article would need to be titled "Currency of Gibraltar" or similar. (2) When I last changed "The pound is..." to "The Gibraltar pound is..." I omitted to notice that the subsequent phrasing had also at some point been changed from "is the currency issued by the Government of Gibraltar" to "is the currency of Gibraltar". The former (which we have again now) is in my view preferable. (3) I added Gibraltarian pound on account of the significant number of Google hits. Perhaps it could be mentioned as a deprecated alternative? I don't feel massively strongly on this point though... Matt 11:28, 8 July 2007 (UTC).

GIP coins in UK
"'Due to Gibraltar's popularity as a tourist destination (compared with other British territories which issue coinage at parity to sterling) and the fact that the coins are almost identical to UK £1 coins, they can be found in circulation in the UK fairly frequently.'"

I was bold and removed this sentence, due to it making not one not two but three unverified claims, the last of which is unprovable (what is the definition of "fairly frequently"?). From WP:V: "I can NOT emphasize this enough. There seems to be a terrible bias among some editors that some sort of random speculative 'I heard it somewhere' pseudo information is to be tagged with a 'needs a cite' tag. Wrong. It should be removed, aggressively, unless it can be sourced." If sources are forthcoming, fine, the removed words can return, otherwise it can quite happily live on this talk page. The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick t 14:56, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I actually agree with you now that you've corrected what you meant to remove from the article. The above sentence should be cited if it is to be included. However, I don't see how Gibraltar being a more popular tourist destination than other British overseas territories is particularly relevant to the article (assuming this is true to begin with!). The "fairly frequently" bit seems POV to me. --Gibmetal 77 talk 21:55, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Confused subject matter of this article
I think a lot of the problems being experience on this article are because it is serving multiple subjects and purposes. On close inspection throughout it looks like the subject matter is closer to '(monetary) currency in Gibraltar' rather than trying to explain and define a 'Gibraltar Pound' or GIP etc.

I suggest creating a new entry on the subject of monetary currency in Gibraltar - covering the history, practical circulation etc, but with an introduction going straight to: 'the Pound Sterling is the official currency in Gibraltar' and that both BoE and GoG notes (and coins) are in mixed interchangeable circulation. It would link to this article which would itself be restricted to an explanation of the ISO code GIP and (perhaps) Government of Gibraltar issued currency (explaining that since it is denominated in pounds sterling this sets the parity of GIP to GBP. —Preceding unsigned comment added by GibFusion (talk • contribs) 07:38, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

The start of two pound coins?
Here it is said that first two pound coins were issued in 1997. Anyway, this whole article suffers from serious lack of sources. --Oop (talk) 16:28, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

12-sided pound coin
It was announced that the new 12-sided pound coin will be made available to British territories and dependencies. It's not happened yet, but looks likely that this will be introduced to Gibraltar soon. Bthrussell (talk) 05:02, 6 January 2019 (UTC)