Talk:Gillingham F.C.

Comments
First off, major props to those who are creating the individual articles for the players, they look awesome. I realise there's only a couple of us editing this one regularly, but I think this too is becoming a fine article. The only real thing I see left to seriously tidy up at the moment is the remaining 74-95 section- I'd previously left this as I reckon there must be someone here who was there for at least some of it (unfortunately before my time) and could give a better starting point to edit from. While the rest of the history is pretty easy to research, I'm not sure I could give the rivalry with Swindon etc. it's due importance, since the sources I'd been using tend to become more emotive and less based on the facts. If nothing's forthcoming, then I will have a crack at it, but I would ask anyone in the know to take a look at that section. Up the Gills. --Lawlore 19:03, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Clohessy
To be honest, I think that this bit:

''Defender Sean Clohessy who came through the Gills' youth ranks this season and made 20 first team appearances has been awarded his first professional contract which keeps him at the club for the next 3 years. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/g/gillingham/4973710.stm''

is not especially notable within the overall history of the club itself, although obviosuly it does belong on Sean's own page when that is created.... ChrisTheDude 08:17, 8 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I did wonder why that kept being put back in. I've taken it out again until there's some justification as to why it deserves to be there. --Lawlore 14:19, 9 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Maybe the user who keeps putting it in *is* Sean Clohessy :-) ChrisTheDude 14:21, 9 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I though Clohessy came through the youth ranks of Arsenal who released him and we snapped him up, albeit not on a pro contract at first.  GillsMan 10:52, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Latest addition
Apart from the fact that the latest section added is a straight lift from the BBC News website and therefore copy-vio, do we really need to have *every* new news story about the club added to an article on its history? This is an encyclopedia, not a place to find the latest news and rumours..... ChrisTheDude 13:30, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I'd be with you there Chris. I think the Gills page has evolved into a tidy little page, and probably about right for a club of our, dare I say, humble stature, but the 2005-6 section will soon need thinning out, as it passes into history, and not daily bulletins more suited to Gillsconnect, Gills365 or the official site making it even more disproportionate to the rest of our history.    Kevin McE 19:29, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I give up, I can't be bothered editing out minor contract signing "news" every time someone puts it back in..... :-P ChrisTheDude 11:29, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

News and Pictures
I don't want to get into edit wars, and I assume that most of us posting here are Gills fans, but I do think that we need to be careful to respect wikipedia's identity as an encyclopedia, not a bulletin board. What we add should increase people's knowledge of GFC with a long historical perspective: what is recent news does not belong here simply because it is news (players signed/released merit changes to the squad list, not the history of the club). I agree that our Wembley appearances were so historical to merit a photo (have the copyright issues been addressed?), but if there is more than one, then they cannot line up with the appropriate text. For this reason I would propose that only one of the pictures be retained, and I would suggest that the picture from the back of the stands makes it very difficult for anyone to identify it as having anything to do with the Gills. Kevin McE 12:59, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Ok, Kev, point well made! remove it.

cheers. Glad to have resolved sensibly.

Former players who became managers
I have removed Adrian Pennock from the list and changed the heading so as to only include players who have gone on to manage in the Football League, as otherwise we'd need to include all the other ex-Gills who have become non-league managers eg Russell Musker, Jason Lillis, Peter Beadle, Robin Trott, Alan Walker, Bob Taylor, Steve Lovell, etc etc etc, and the list would get very big and silly.... ChrisTheDude 11:03, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Paul Haylock
I've put up an article for Paul Haylock. Does anyone have any info from his time with Gillingham that they could add to it? If so, please do.....thanks! User:Demonicanglian 12:10, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Club colours?
"In 1913 the club changed its name to Gillingham Football Club and dropped its black and white kit in favour of red and blue shirts emblazoned with the borough's coat of arms"

Although I've been involved in editing the older history of the club, I must admit I've never heard that. While it's more than possible that it's true, would anyone be able to provide a source (be it online or offline) to verify it, if only to satisfy my curiosity? Thanks. --Lawlore 17:34, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
 * This site shows the first kit used under the Gillingham name as being red and blue..... ChrisTheDude 06:53, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Cool, thanks for that, I've learned something today. Guess if Scally had tried to change the shirts to red and blue rather than white a few seasons back, he'd have had a case... --Lawlore 15:09, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

A note on British English
British English should be used for articles on Britain related topics. Likewise, American English should be used on articles pertaining to American topics. For a clearer example, please visit this sub-section on the differences between their usage. However, is" works better than "are" with the term club as it is a singular and not a plural noun. (Compare with the word team which is a plural noun) --  S iva1979 Talk to me  16:17, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Please view my response with regards to this here. -- S iva1979 Talk to me  06:43, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Fixtures and Appearances by season
I know that there are some issues with the football league fixtures being copyrighted, but would it be possible to replicate the fixture/appearances tables in the match programmes for each past season (historical archive)?
 * To be honest I think that would be much too in-depth for the scope of Wikipedia - no other club has anything like it, as far as I know. It would most likely end up being deleted under WP:NOT. Something along the lines of this would be OK though.... ChrisTheDude 16:26, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Kent

 * discussion moved from template

Expand article with more information on highlights/lows of a seaon
 * This seems to me to be an invitation to WP:Recentism: to give highs and lows of every season for the last 114 years is neither possible nor desirable in terms of length of the article, and to only give it for recent years is to give disproportionate priority to the recent history. Kevin McE 18:53, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I accept the problems and think the article covers "highs and lows" of an era rather than a year. - Olive Oil -ŢάĽɮ - 19:15, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Managers' records
Should Gillingham Football Club managers' records, which I have just created, stand alone or be merged (after some correction and proper formatting of references) into the main article? Kevin McE 12:34, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Club record
Is there a reason why the 12-1 victory over Gloucester City in 1947 is overlooked in declaring the 1987 10-0 over Chesterfield to be the record vistory. If what is being declared is a league record, or a record against professional opposition, does that need to be specified? Kevin McE 07:30, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Isn't it the case that, generally speaking, only results in the Football League/FA Cup/League Cup are counted for the purposes of that record by books and so on? The 12-1 might be worth a subsidiary mention, though, I guess..... ChrisTheDude 07:34, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Spoken version added
I have added a spoken version of this article; see the link at the top. Hassocks5489 20:47, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Seamus McDonagh
Leafing through an old News of the World Annual I found in a cupboard at my parents' house, there was the line-up listing for a Republic of Ireland international match in May 1985, and the goalie was listed as McDonagh (Gillingham), which if correct would mean there was another player who gained int'l caps whilst at Priestfield. However, the date of the match was May 26 1985, and surely he didn't remain on loan beyond the end of the season.......? I haven't got my programmes from that era with me to check but can anyone else confirm.....? ChrisTheDude 09:07, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
 * | This fan site also lists him as a Gill. I have no idea what actually happened in this instance, but given the source (I'm shocked at you, having a NotW publication) I suspect lazy journalism.  If, however, the FAI listed him as a Gills player (because that was where he was at the time of the call-up, or possibly because Gills were responsible for his contract for the month of May) then that could be considered a genuine record.  I have emailed the guy who is listed as the Ireland expert on RSSSF, and asked the Gills message board. Kevin McE 13:22, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Message board users have checked HotSM, to discover that he last played for us on 27th April, and soccerbase reveals that we had 5 further matches that season, with presumably Ron Hillyard back in goal. There was only one sub in those days, so McDonagh I don't think it's likely that he would have been retained, unless the loan contract was to the end of the year: it looks very likely that he returned to Notts Co reserves in May. My guess: he was at Gills when the squad was announced, and the sources that list him as a Gillingham player didn't check where he was at the time of the game.  However, there are sources independent of GFC interests who mention it, which is more than can be said for Freddie Fox.  Kevin McE 15:03, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Senior appearances and senior squad members
Is it valid to say that a junior who has appeared for the first team is thereby a member of the first team squad? I suspect that it would be far more realistic to consider Cumbers and Freeman to be part of the juniors: that is where they train and the basis of their contracts. The issue affects this article, but probably many many other club articles: I have raised it for wider discussion here. Kevin McE 20:39, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Leroy Griffiths: loanee or not?
The source that should be authoritative, |his entry on the GFC site states that he is on loan. This was duly reported by |the BBC and probably other news sources. However, like Jimbo and Chris, I have heard it said, though I can't remember where, that he was out of contract at Lewes (where he had only made one sub appearance). I guess the key evidence would be the player's registration with the FA: is this in the public forum? I am not absolutely certain of the reevision I have made, but I believe it to be the only one that can be made on the evidence available. Can we present supporting/contrary evidence here rather than by constant revision? Kevin McE (talk) 11:13, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
 * There's a source linked in his own article which states that he signed a short-term contract (not a loan) with the Gills, but it's only from a local paper so I'd say we have to go with the Beeb as a theoretically more reliable source..... ChrisTheDude (talk) 11:21, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
 * He has an article on the Gills' Official site in which he says that he is on a month-to-month contract: that could of course be monthly renewal of a loan, but he makes no mention at all of Lewes, and he is not mentioned on the Lewes site at all. I suspect that it is not a loan deal (if it is, I think we may have exceeded the permitted number of loan players on the pitch in some recent matches!), but GFC's media prowess is such that the only authoritatively statement is an unreliable one.  Kevin McE (talk) 13:12, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * The BBC had him listed as being on loan from Fisher Athletic, something I also heard in the stands recently: as he had, allegedly, been kicked out at Lewews for a "dressing room incident". Kevin McE (talk) 14:19, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

i think as a gills fan if they dont gain pomotion it will be classed by many as a failed season jason from sheerness kent —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.41.18.103 (talk) 11:35, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
 * WP:NOTFORUM -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 11:43, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Suggestions
I'd like to see this on the main page, as it's more interesting than some football articles I've read. However, Id like to suggest a couple of improvements:


 * 1) Can the section about players and staff be moved to a separate article, as has been done with managers? The embedded list breaks up the flow of the narrative.
 * 2) The section titled Gillingham in popular culture should be In popular culture - see the fifth bullet point in MOS:HEAD which states that the article title shouldn't be repeated in section headings.
 * 3) The back-room staff section is dated 14 April 2008 - is this still current?

Hope it makes it to TFA! —  Tivedshambo   (t/c) 22:05, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Regarding point 1, there's already List of Gillingham F.C. players to cover notable past players. The current squad and staff can't be broken out, as there's no way Gillingham F.C.'s current squad and backroom staff would survive as a stand-alone article.  So that only leaves the list of international players.  If this was converted into prose, would that solve the problem?  The other two points will be addressed shortly -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:00, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I'd wondered about moving the sections to List of Gillingham F.C. players, but having seen the layout of that page, and given its existing FL status, I agree that might not be so practical. As for international players, I'd say keep it in tabular format if the other sections are also retained. Incidentally, it might be worth explaining why the status of Freddie Fox is disputed (is it because it is unsure who he was playing for at the time, or because he was injured and therefore prevented from completeing a full cap?} —  Tivedshambo   (t/c) 08:02, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorted - it was already covered by a footnote, but I've clarified it in the body too -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:21, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks Chris - if things go well, you may have two TFAs within a week, as I'm hoping to push Talyllyn Railway for the 14th. —  Tivedshambo   (t/c) 09:04, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Best of luck with that one! -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 09:08, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Stefan Payne Nationality
Don't see why this has to be sourced while all the other players' nationalities remain unsourced but hey. Google cache of Payne's Fulham profile Half Price (talk) 17:44, 21 June 2010 (UTC)


 * See Talk:Chester_F.C._(2010). Thanks, Eliteimp (talk) 11:06, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I'm struggling a little to work out which side your on! You seem to be arguing against such reverts there yet reverting here. I'm obviously missing something! Half Price (talk) 17:29, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

Scally Salary Cut
(cur | prev) 08:25, 6 November 2010 91.106.213.62 (talk) (52,549 bytes) (→Recent highs and lows) - This edit was made by me but forgot to log in.... Anyway I took the sentence out about Paul Scally cutting his salary, as last year his salary was £151,000 according to official accounts, which I'm sure is more than 40% of anything previous. Giveitallforcheese (talk) 08:32, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

Matty Jarvis
Not sure how he could be fit in without it seeming shoe horned but I really think he deserves a place in the notable players section after winning an england cap tonight. What do people think? I was proud as punch that he was playing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mcmatthews (talk • contribs) 20:48, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I share your pride, but that's not a great motivation for encyclopaedic content. That being said, a bit of prose under the international players section could mention players who became internationals after leaving the club, like Jarvis, Marlon King, Akinbiyi, Agyemang, Tom Williams. Would loanees count? If so, also Colin Clake, Jonathan Douglas, Chris Dickson, J'Lloyd Samuels, Kevin Lisbie, Craig Rocastle, but not quite tonight, Darren Randolph.  Possibly others. I'd prefer not to have those who were ex-internationals before they joined Gills.  Jarvis shouldn't be included on his own, but a category with clear criteria that includes him should be OK.  Kevin McE (talk) 22:14, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Update Finances
Revising the whole of my edit seems a bit overkill... Yes fair point: the bits about fans opinions about scally might not fit, but the citations definitely support the fact we have £3.4m debts, scally and his wifes "consultancy fees" are very high and he is trying to sell the club. Giveitallforcheese (talk) 13:40, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't think financial bulletins are appropriate: this is an encyclopaedia, not a financial health report. Kevin McE (talk) 17:54, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I concur for several reasons. Firstly, WP:RECENTISM and WP:UNDUE - the club's current financial situation is not really a major event in the club's history, which is what such a summarised history section should contain.  According to HotSM there have been other occasions in the past when the club's continued existence was legitimately in doubt (in the early 1930s the situation was apparently so serious that veteran skipper Jock Robertson agreed to give up his wages).  These previous instances are not mentioned at all, so to devote a lot of space to the current, probably less serious, situation would be excessive.  Secondly, making an apparent implicit connection between the club's current level of debt and Scally's wages is WP:POV, WP:POINT and WP:SYNTH - essentially you seem to be encouraging the reader to draw the conclusion that Scally is wrong to pay himself and his wife such large wages.  This might indeed be the case, but we can't push (even by implication) such views in an encyclopedia.  The brief existing mention of the club's current situation is sufficient IMO.  Oh, and Scally's chuntered on before about selling up, but nothing has come of it and there's nothing to indicate that anything's going to come of it this time...... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 18:00, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

Stable version
Hi all, there is a new stable template that I have placed on this talk page. The purpose of this template, as explained in the documentation and in a short discussion at the village pump, is to help against article rot (the deterioration of quality that can occur in articles), and to keep a link to a stable version, which will be reliable, and not so prone to those errors, vandalism, and erroneous information that can crop up at any moment. It has no effect on the actual article, and can be upgraded/changed at any time - ideally to reflect a newer, improved stable version. This being said, if you are against using it on this talk page (some have found it intrusive), feel free to discuss or remove it - I believe that it will benefit some articles more than others, and I accept that not all will see a need for it on each article. Falconus p t   c 22:51, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Current Squad list
The official club site (the source given for the squad list) doesn't include Flanaghan, Miller or Burton, yet they've all been given squad numbers on here. Where is the source for these 3 players' numbers?

Also, Bradley Dack's twitter picture has a photo of his number 18 shirt, but I suspect that's not a reliable source.

Frediculous biggs (talk) 01:09, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

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Assessment comment
Substituted at 16:17, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

training at White Hart Lane
I took a photo for the stadium corner but it also has the Gill's in training at White Hart Lane, don't know if it's useful or not for one of the Gills editors. Regards Govvy (talk) 10:31, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

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Finances
I was wondering if you could explain further why you removed the section as it seemed fine to me and was well sourced and please don't post any links to guidelines. Govvy (talk) 12:45, 26 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I don't feel that in the context of a high-level summary of the club's entire 126-year history, the content was significant enough to merit a mention. Essentially we had a section as long as the coverage of the entire 1970s and 1980s which could be summarised as "the club had some financial problems for a bit but now it’s OK".  I can understand mentioning when the club actually went into administration in 1995, but more recent events were nothing like that.  If it has to be mentioned at all, I would say it merits no more than a single sentence -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 21:20, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

FA concerns
Looking at this as part of the ongoing FA sweeps. A lot of work is needed here, as this article has become rather out of date. The history section mentions nothing after 2014, how did the stadium dispute with the local council turn out, the average attendance statistic is from before 2010, nothing about team colors since 2014 is mentioned, the sources for the officials needs updated, as its from 2018, while the content appears to be the current stuff, the international players section may not have been updated since 2018 (hard to tell, that's what the prose says and the sources don't postdate that), several of the most recent managers aren't listed in the managers section, and on the whole, it looks like this article needs a very thorough update or a featured article review. Hog Farm Talk 01:16, 1 June 2021 (UTC)